1. #5601
    Originally Posted by Zansobar View Post
    OU played UT OOC for how many years again?
    Yes while Texas was at home in its own conference the SWC. Not as the sole member of the State in the Big 10.
       

  2. #5602
    Originally Posted by Transic View Post
    Somehow, Cincinnati and UConn have managed to survive without a P5 designation.
    speaking of Cincy and UConn, Fluguar, through "BTM" and his OU connection said adding them was a done deal in March of 2016.
    The following users like this post: notre dame joe

       

  3. #5603
    Trip's Avatar
    Posts
    3,321
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    ACC Ground Zero

    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    You’re comparing millions with Billions....
    Well, that too is debatable.
       

  4. #5604
    OU48A's Avatar
    Posts
    28,688
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norman

    Originally Posted by Sea Blue View Post
    Seems like some school named "A&M" did exactly what you speak of, only that sort of worked out in a manner that suits you.
    Yes they did….
    People don’t want to hear it but there is an end to OU patience too when it comes to dealing with Texas.
    The following users like this post: Transic

       

  5. #5605
    Originally Posted by Sea Blue View Post
    Seems like some school named "A&M" did exactly what you speak of, only that sort of worked out in a manner that suits you.
    Other than A&M sucking as they always have, it's worked out great for them.
    2 users like Deadeye's post: notre dame joe, OU48A

       

  6. #5606
    OU48A's Avatar
    Posts
    28,688
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norman

    Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    Well, that too is debatable.
    Not really .....Go read the university based studies that have been posted on this thread
       

  7. #5607
    OU48A's Avatar
    Posts
    28,688
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norman

    Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    Don't you mean "sophisticated economics"? You know, the kind of economics neanderthals like us don't have the brain power to comprehend, but big money donors do, because, well, they have big money?
    And some of the best adviser’s money can buy!
       

  8. #5608
    Originally Posted by JRsec* View Post
    There's not an ounce of common sense in any assertion that OU heads to the Big 10 without Texas.
    Now, if there were a conference that OU had been a part of for 75 or 80 years, that didn't include Texas, and despite that, Oklahoma and Texas still played each other every year, then there would be some common sense to that assertion.
       

  9. #5609
    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    What you don’t know is that OU has threatened to end the series before…..
    Boren has also threaten UT with the prospect of playing A&M in Fair Park and did this very publicly.
    You can bet that option is still in Boren’s mind
    Look, you are a nice guy who is fervent about his position, but Oklahoma relies on Texas recruiting like no other region. There is certainly no way they move to the Big 10 and cut Texas off at the same time. It would be athletic suicide and there are way too many supporters of the schools who would implode if that ever happened. It is only plausible in theory. It is nowhere near enough to practical to ever be considered. Athletics is the revenue stream that is growing. Grants from the FEDs and appropriations from states are shrinking everywhere. Why do you think the Big 10 wants you? Hint: It's not for your academics. They need your brand in football to prop up their sagging numbers which are even going to be worse when the cable subscription model is finished. Content is what sells and what will drive streaming revenue. They don't have content with Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana and Northwetern. That's more dead weight to carry than you have in the Big 12. The Big 10 needs your brand. Your brand cut off from Texas recruiting will suffer the same fate as Nebraska's.
    Smart people won't let that happen.

    And years from now long after some of us are dust, if the USA is still alright, the population in the South will have the sufficient numbers to appropriate the funds they want from the government that once did the same for the Northern Midwest in the decades before their population relocated to the two Coast lines and the Southeast and Texas. It doesn't even make sense as a 100 year move.
    The following users like this post: jmboyer1

       

  10. #5610
    Originally Posted by Hamilton View Post
    Now, if there were a conference that OU had been a part of for 75 or 80 years, that didn't include Texas, and despite that, Oklahoma and Texas still played each other every year, then there would be some common sense to that assertion.
    Things will change significantly should Texas wind up anywhere where they aren't the center of a Texas centric or dominated conference.
       

  11. #5611
    Originally Posted by Sea Blue View Post
    Seems like some school named "A&M" did exactly what you speak of, only that sort of worked out in a manner that suits you.
    That's because they still play the majority of their games in a relatively close area when they are on the road.
       

  12. #5612
    If OU/OSU to the SEC is real, then it would be interesting to see what Texas does? All their teams they like to play against are there (OU, A&M, Ark).
    4 users like MrQster's post: JRsec*, KSULynchMob, LSUFAN910, murr

    Last edited by MrQster; May 19th, 2017 at 09:25 PM.
       

  13. #5613
    OU48A's Avatar
    Posts
    28,688
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norman

    Originally Posted by JRsec* View Post
    Look, you are a nice guy who is fervent about his position, but Oklahoma relies on Texas recruiting like no other region. There is certainly no way they move to the Big 10 and cut Texas off at the same time. It would be athletic suicide and there are way too many supporters of the schools who would implode if that ever happened. .
    If Ohio State can recut Texas like they are this year… so can OU just as long as OU employs good coaches.

    What you probably do not know is that OU has never won a national title without roughly half the roster coming from Oklahoma…. In 2000 our roaster was about 63% Okie….

    OU is recruiting all over the nation…. Why because many of the best Texas recruits are going elsewhere, including some to the BIG.
    The recruiting angle on this is a bogus argument.
       

  14. #5614
    Originally Posted by MrQster View Post
    If OU/OSU to the SEC is real, then it would be interesting to see what Texas does? All there teams they like to play against are there (OU, A&M, Ark).
    That's the whole idea!
       

  15. #5615
    Originally Posted by JRsec* View Post
    Things will change significantly should Texas wind up anywhere where they aren't the center of a Texas centric or dominated conference.
    We were talking about OU moving to the Big Ten without Texas. You said no common sense suggests OU would go there without Texas.

    You were reminded of the Big 8. You've now moved the goalposts to talking about Texas being in a Texas-centric conference or not. I honestly do not follow.
       

  16. #5616
    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    If Ohio State can recut Texas like they are this year… so can OU just as long as OU employs good coaches.

    What you probably do not know is that OU has never won a national title without roughly half the roster coming from Oklahoma…. In 2000 our roaster was about 63% Okie….

    OU is recruiting all over the nation…. Why because many of the best Texas recruits are going elsewhere, including some to the BIG.
    The recruiting angle on this is a bogus argument.
    What did OSU take 3 or 4 recruits, maybe 6. That's okay, but not what OU would want.
       

  17. #5617
    Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    I do like that more. UT to the ACC would be the kiss of death for their football program — which is why I've never considered that scenario to have any legitimacy.
    I can't speak to the death of Texas' football program, but there continues to be "Texas talk" around the resort that abuts Sedgefield.
       

  18. #5618
    Trip's Avatar
    Posts
    3,321
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    ACC Ground Zero

    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    Not really .....Go read the university based studies that have been posted on this thread
    Welcome to the Internet. Give me 15 minutes, and I'm pretty sure I can find studies to refute yours.
    The following users like this post: notre dame joe

       

  19. #5619
    OU48A's Avatar
    Posts
    28,688
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norman

    Originally Posted by JRsec* View Post
    What did OSU take 3 or 4 recruits, maybe 6. That's okay, but not what OU would want.
    Look at the differences in driving distances…. OU recruited Texas mostly very well while in the old Big 8.
    There are a decent number of Texans on other B1G rosters…. Somebody posted 60 something?
       

  20. #5620
    OU48A's Avatar
    Posts
    28,688
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norman

    Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    Welcome to the Internet. Give me 15 minutes, and I'm pretty sure I can find studies to refute yours.
    Like it or not the facts back the study!
       

  21. #5621
    Originally Posted by nebraskafaninwi View Post
    Ohio State signed 3 out of the top 6 recruits out of Texas for the 2017 class. 16 of the top 20 recruits out of Texas for the 2017 class LEFT the state of Texas on NSD.
    Yes, they did. The implosion of Big 12 relevancy in action.

    And this happens with 4 of the 5 Texas power conference schools in the same conference....this should tell people all they need to know. It's not 1977 anymore. Florida gets carved up too but nobody talks about how Miami became the greatest NFL production factory of modern times while situated as an Independent or in the ****ing Big East. How ever did Miami manage to stay relevant? And hell, they haven't been relevant since they joined a conference more generally focused on FL.

    The Texas-sized centricity myths get busted around here like swatting flies.
    4 users like Hamilton's post: Deadeye, DirectTvVersionOfYou, OU48A, RocketCitySooner

       

  22. #5622
    Trip's Avatar
    Posts
    3,321
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    ACC Ground Zero

    Originally Posted by XLance View Post
    I can't speak to the death of Texas' football program, but there continues to be "Texas talk" around the resort that abuts Sedgefield.
    All true. Like I told ND Joe, I mean no disrespect to the ACC. It's just that UT in the ACC would be a square peg in a round hole, and would seriously undermine their football program. Which is why I hope it happens, and also why I believe it won't.
    The following users like this post: JRsec*

       

  23. #5623
    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    If Ohio State can recut Texas like they are this year… so can OU just as long as OU employs good coaches.

    What you probably do not know is that OU has never won a national title without roughly half the roster coming from Oklahoma…. In 2000 our roaster was about 63% Okie….

    OU is recruiting all over the nation…. Why because many of the best Texas recruits are going elsewhere, including some to the BIG.
    The recruiting angle on this is a bogus argument.
    Plus, if recruiting is so end-all, be-all then why is nobody knocking the doors of USF, UCF, Georgia State, Houston, etc.? Point being people in certain universities like being in association with each other. They just spend a little more money for people who can recruit in key areas.

    It also proves that any program can recruit in any area of the country as long as resources are used creatively. It doesn't necessarily have to take a massive athletic budget, just a will and a way to work with the parameters given to them. Problem is many conference schools are just content with what they have. I hate the SEC and ACC but they were smart to understand that sports are a way to promote the school and not treated as some activity of interior plebes. Every year this reality frustrates me. I wish more programs would wake up and make improvements. But it is what it is.

    I would welcome OU and KU into the club.
    5 users like Transic's post: Big8Fan, HartRod, NM Jayhawk, OU48A, RocketCitySooner

       

  24. #5624
    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    Look at the differences in driving distances…. OU recruited Texas mostly very well while in the old Big 8.
    There are a decent number of Texans on other B1G rosters…. Somebody posted 60 something?
    I've posted about it many times and I know this is one area where you and I agree. There is an exaggeration/myth based on OU-TX-dependency. I speak of the state of TX, from the reliance on TX talent, to the idea that OU has to continually show up near to them to be able to recruit the area well. OU's issues in TX recruiting relate to quality not quantity. And the issue right now is losing quality to the SEC and Big Ten because that's where big time recruits want to go play. Not in the god damn Arena League, no matter how many TX schools are in it,.
    The following users like this post: HartRod

       

  25. #5625
    Originally Posted by Hamilton View Post
    We were talking about OU moving to the Big Ten without Texas. You said no common sense suggests OU would go there without Texas.

    You were reminded of the Big 8. You've now moved the goalposts to talking about Texas being in a Texas-centric conference or not. I honestly do not follow.
    I was merely saying that the whole time OU was Big 8 and Texas was SWC nothing substantive had changed. Texas was still in a world that it dominated as the top school of a Texas centric conference. When the two became the Big 12 nothing substantively changed. Should Texas head to the PAC or ACC or SEC with the demise of the Big 12, Oklahoma being in the Big 10 without Texas would substantively change things. For one thing Texas would have other obligations to fulfill in any of those other conferences, save possibly as an independent in the ACC. And that doesn't even factor in the fact that OSU likely would be someplace else as well. Now the OU AD has to face trying to schedule both Texas and OSU as OOC games with at least 9 conference games to play in the Big 10. That total could even get pushed to 10 with 16 schools. That's a tight window, especially if OSU and UT have to be played early to accommodate Big 10 scheduling where they play their entire non conference slate up front.

    I just don't see it, and I haven't moved the goal posts. Things would simply be substantively different than they were before. I don't think anyone with common sense wants to:
    (a) Put the brand identity in jeopardy. OU is tied to its identity in the Big 8 and Big 12 where it plays certain schools annually. I would argue that scheduling independent of the recruiting issues have severely damaged Nebraska's brand versus where it was just two decades ago. Nebraska doesn't have touchstones to its on brand history in the Big 10 and having just Oklahoma wouldn't really help either of you. At least in the SEC OU would have Arkansas, Missouri, OSU and A&M and would likely be in a division of neighbors, some new to the schedule and some familiar. Your regional identity would not have shifted much and that helps to protect your brand. A mass move to the PAC would do the same, and probably better.
    (b) Lose interesting games to the fan base and you suffer in donations and attendance. The Big 10's average attendance has fallen to 11,000 fewer per game than that of the SEC. The PAC is just at 50,000 in average attendance (27,,000 fewer per game than the SEC).
    (c) The schools you would be playing annually would have lousy recruiting grounds. Ohio would be the exception but they aren't in the Big 10 West.
    (d) Losing either of the RRR or Bedlam would hurt donations too.

    So with better academic partners in the PAC, and academic partners in the SEC on par with what you presently have in the Big 12, would the Big 10 really pay enough dividend to sacrifice the other areas? I don't think so.

    But hey we will all wait and see. It's just that in the last couple of months on this board the whole Big 10 thing has been way over the top of what in reality is going to be a much closer decision than what folks have been claiming. And then it will only be close if Texas goes with you.

    The money is better in the SEC. The attendance is better in the SEC. The sports package for Softball, Gymnastics, and Baseball are better in the SEC. Geography favors the SEC, especially for containing non revenue sports overhead. The SEC has more familiar faces. And in the future we will have the demographic, and likely the political, clout. So to say that the choice is a foregone conclusion to the contrary of what I've just listed and more just isn't so.

    Who you play and where you play annually matters. After all, you have a customer base that is wonderfully loyal, but that loyalty is built on your history of playing the schools they care about playing. Violate that and damage will be sustained. That's just business and it should be common sense business. IMO there have been three options here. The PAC which if it included a move of 4 - 6 schools presently in the Big 12 would be your best move. (2) The SEC for the reasons I've listed. (3) Big 10 academics where Oklahoma would be 16th out 16 and the reputation of the Big 10 schools is not as transferable as people have been led to believe, and where OU would basically only head with Kansas. I just don't see the value.
    The following users like this post: jmboyer1

    Last edited by JRsec*; May 20th, 2017 at 01:13 AM.
       

  26. #5626
    OU48A's Avatar
    Posts
    28,688
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norman

    Originally Posted by Transic View Post
    Plus, if recruiting is so end-all, be-all then why is nobody knocking the doors of USF, UCF, Georgia State, Houston, etc.? Point being people in certain universities like being in association with each other. They just spend a little more money for people who can recruit in key areas.

    It also proves that any program can recruit in any area of the country as long as resources are used creatively. It doesn't necessarily have to take a massive athletic budget, just a will and a way to work with the parameters given to them. Problem is many conference schools are just content with what they have. I hate the SEC and ACC but they were smart to understand that sports are a way to promote the school and not treated as some activity of interior plebes. Every year this reality frustrates me. I wish more programs would wake up and make improvements. But it is what it is.

    I would welcome OU and KU into the club.
    That’s a good post Transic…
    Are you a fan of a B1G university…? I hadn’t noticed.

    I’m a fan of making yourself the best you can be in everything possible. For OU and our state that’s the B1G….. Yes things could change, but right now, for most OU decision makers the athletic considerations will take a back seat to academics and economics.

    Perhaps nobody has or will have done a better job than OU in using its football program to elevate it’s universities academics…. This has already been happening at OU since the late 70’s that I know of.
    The following users like this post: RocketCitySooner

       

  27. #5627
    Trip's Avatar
    Posts
    3,321
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    ACC Ground Zero

    Originally Posted by JRsec* View Post
    The money is better in the SEC. The attendance is better in the SEC. The sports package for Softball, Gymnastics, and Baseball are better in the SEC. Geography favors the SEC, especially for containing non revenue sports overhead. The SEC has more familiar faces. And in the future we will have the demographic and likely the political clout.
    As NebWeenie is fond of saying (probably because he can't think of anything more insightful) . . . Bingo!
    The following users like this post: jmboyer1

       

  28. #5628
    Originally Posted by Hamilton View Post
    Yes, they did. The implosion of Big 12 relevancy in action.

    And this happens with 4 of the 5 Texas power conference schools in the same conference....this should tell people all they need to know. It's not 1977 anymore. Florida gets carved up too but nobody talks about how Miami became the greatest NFL production factory of modern times while situated as an Independent or in the ****ing Big East. How ever did Miami manage to stay relevant? And hell, they haven't been relevant since they joined a conference more generally focused on FL.

    The Texas-sized centricity myths get busted around here like swatting flies.
    Hamilton, you started bleeding them when A&M left the Texas cartel. It permitted the SEC to plant their brand in Texas. Now Texas kids could play for a home school and gain access to SEC branding. The U had many reasons never publicized as to why they were able to do what they did. But you are right about the state of Florida but even there it has a great deal to do with the relocation of population. There are many kids now whose parents are alums of the Big 10 and some of those sign with their parents schools. But those are exceptions. Most still stay in state or go to neighboring states. But those neighboring states have schools that play in their conferences.

    And then there is Urban. He built recruiting connections in the Southeast while at Florida. Those will fade with time.
    The following users like this post: jmboyer1

       

  29. #5629
    Originally Posted by MrQster View Post
    I am not sure you are thinking this thoroughly. What happens to the economy of Stillwater, OK if they get relegated to a lesser league? What happens to the Athletic Department of OSU? If you are looking at the economics of the entire state then a OU/OSU to the SEC is better than OU to B1G with an uncertain future for OSU.
    Who really cares about the future of OSU?
    The following users like this post: OU48A

       

  30. #5630
    OU48A's Avatar
    Posts
    28,688
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norman

    Originally Posted by Hamilton View Post
    I've posted about it many times and I know this is one area where you and I agree. There is an exaggeration/myth based on OU-TX-dependency. I speak of the state of TX, from the reliance on TX talent, to the idea that OU has to continually show up near to them to be able to recruit the area well. OU's issues in TX recruiting relate to quality not quantity. And the issue right now is losing quality to the SEC and Big Ten because that's where big time recruits want to go play. Not in the god damn Arena League, no matter how many TX schools are in it,.
    Facts are facts…. That what I try to base my bottom line on.
    Nobody denies that Texas isn’t an important recruiting ground for OU…. but the rapidly growing north Texas DFW suburbs are not going to move and neither is Norman.

    In the age of on line streaming OU still has a radio station that broadcast all its football and basketball games in the DFW market.
    But I agree with your post.
       

  31. #5631
    OU48A's Avatar
    Posts
    28,688
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norman

    Originally Posted by RocketCitySooner View Post
    Who really cares about the future of OSU?
    I don’t wish osu any harm but it’s time that OU be allowed to be all that it can be …Like that Army commercial.
    But there are plenty of osu apologists masquerading as OU fans who would disagree!
    The following users like this post: RocketCitySooner

       

  32. #5632
    Originally Posted by RocketCitySooner View Post
    Who really cares about the future of OSU?
    I don't really care about them myself. Unfortunately, our decision maker do.
       

  33. #5633
    Trip's Avatar
    Posts
    3,321
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    ACC Ground Zero

    Originally Posted by RocketCitySooner View Post
    Who really cares about the future of OSU?
    You may not. And I may not. But a lot of people in Oklahoma do, including a lot of people in the state government.

    48 says that's not a big deal, that OU can do whatever OU wants to do, with no regard for OSU. Personally, I think that's overly optimistic.
       

  34. #5634
    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    I don’t wish osu any harm but it’s time that OU be allowed to be all that it can be …Like that Army commercial.
    But there are plenty of osu apologists masquerading as OU fans who would disagree!
    Yeah that promise of being all you can be in the Army is about as true as the promises made about what the Big 10 offers Oklahoma. The only way to be all you can be in the Army is to graduate from West Point! Hooah!
    2 users like JRsec*'s post: jmboyer1, OU48A

       

  35. #5635
    OU48A's Avatar
    Posts
    28,688
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norman

    Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    You may not. And I may not. But a lot of people in Oklahoma do, including a lot of people in the state government.

    48 says that's not a big deal, that OU can do whatever OU wants to do, with no regard for OSU. Personally, I think that's overly optimistic.
    The state laws in Oklahoma which have been posted on this thread, were set up in 1941 prevent the interference in the operation of universities by the states elected officials…..OU is completely free to do as it desires on conference realignment and may legally separate its self from osu without fear of interference, if OU desirers.. Everyone knows the States Supreme Court would back OU in any legal challenge.

    Just yesterday Tramel wrote “Boren politically can do what he wants.” Why did he say that if OU could not separate its self from osu…
    Tramel also indicated that OU would go to the B1G if OU was officially invited.
       

  36. #5636
    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    That’s a good post Transic…
    Are you a fan of a B1G university…? I hadn’t noticed.

    I’m a fan of making yourself the best you can be in everything possible. For OU and our state that’s the B1G….. Yes things could change, but right now, for most OU decision makers the athletic considerations will take a back seat to academics and economics.

    Perhaps nobody has or will have done a better job than OU in using its football program to elevate it’s universities academics…. This has already been happening at OU since the late 70’s that I know of.
    Yes, I follow RU as a program. Yes, I am keenly aware of its many problems. No need to repeat them here. But what I like about my current conference is the continuity and track record of schools being comfortable with associating with each other. Sure, sports could use improvement but, even there, the programs have managed to be competitive in one sport or another, with a couple of exceptions. *sigh*

    There is no fear that programs have a wondering eye. We take *college* sports seriously. Key point being what I outlined. As I'm sure you've noticed as well. We just posted the highest average APR in football this year. Not bad for a conference that gets run down daily here and in corporate media spaces.

    I am happy to read that you believe that the school administration will do its diligence when deciding where to go next if they have to leave the Big 12. Nothing more can be expected of a college administration that understands the bigger picture.
    The following users like this post: OU48A

       

  37. #5637
    Time is a wheel. We're back to OU/KU alone to the B1G again.

    1. Recruiting: OU recruited Texas well 30 years ago in the Big 8. 30 years ago A&M, TCU, Tech, Houston, and Baylor weren't spending hundreds of millions of dollars on their football programs. So the lay of the land is different now. Things change. The Big 12 is bleeding recruits from Texas right now because the perception of the league has declined and the Longhorns have sucked for years. This is what happened in the waning years of the SWC. But whichever conference Texas lands in will be the dominant recruiter of the state of Texas if/when UT is good. Taking a long view of things, OU has to keep that in mind. UT will usually be good. And complicating matters is that the SEC will be perceived as a superior option to most Texas HS kids than the B1G - particularly if UT isn't in the B1G with us. The Big 12 has a hard time in TX right now with tons of exposure. The B1G could be worse with much less.

    These rumors imply we make the first move toward the exit. Assume OU and KU join the B1G as a first move. What happens to our recruiting south of the Red River if Texas and OSU join the SEC? We won't get shut out of Texas but life will be a hell of a lot harder. Are Oklahoma HS kids going to turn on the flagship the way they did in the state of Texas when A&M moved? How hard will it be to pull Texas kids to OU if the state of Texas is an SEC state?

    "But Texas will never, ever, ever join the SEC!!" We don't have a guarantee of that if we move first. Their other two big rivals are there. Their TV partner is there.
    "But Ohio State recruited well there this year!!" That's a one-off year when the Big 12 was way down and UT was going on year 7 of being terrible. The Bucks don't do that consistently and won't - particularly if a HC in Austin starts keeping their best players at home again. It's very hard to poach elite kids from TX when UT is good.

    2. Research funding: The B1G is probably the best association for OU from the standpoint of research. But the B1G proponents have blown that wildly out of proportion. B1G membership won't make billions of dollars of difference for OU research. B1G membership won't have a substantial impact on Oklahoma's economy. It certainly won't offset major damage to OSU. Co-lobbying with some B1G schools might help us marginally in some shared research areas. Sharing a league with midwesterners and northeasterners might help us avoid some negative academic stereotypes. But it might also enhance those stereotypes when BMDs from Michigan fly here and make fun of x,y, and z aspects of our state. (WVU's perception got better when they got out of the Big East.)

    3. Strategy: If the goal was to get OSU an invite to the SEC or PAC, then the only leverage we had in taking care of little brother is to convince both that we are willing to join the B1G without OSU. We needed to make "we'll invite OSU, too" a pot sweetener. The best kind of leverage is tied in with the truth so I'd guess that OU would prefer to join the B1G if there is no invite for OSU waiting anywhere. I doubt very much that we'd turn down a landing spot for OSU if one is extended. That said... if this is a managed implosion, and we know that OSU has a spot in the PAC even if we join the B1G, then maybe we split up.
    7 users like Camel at Sea's post: Deadeye, H. M., jmboyer1, JRsec*, KSULynchMob, OU812, Trip

       

  38. #5638
    Originally Posted by MrQster View Post
    If OU/OSU to the SEC is real, then it would be interesting to see what Texas does? All their teams they like to play against are there (OU, A&M, Ark).
    This is reminding me of the WV board in 2012. Some dope in MN claims to have dinner with some fake insider and you guys go crazy.

    Bad news:. OSU is still below average in every metric that matters to the SEC in CR. The SEC isn't the B12 and won't be licking the boots of the Sooners to accept their good-for-nothing worthless little brother.
       

  39. #5639
    Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    All true. Like I told ND Joe, I mean no disrespect to the ACC. It's just that UT in the ACC would be a square peg in a round hole, and would seriously undermine their football program. Which is why I hope it happens, and also why I believe it won't.
    I find it very unlikely but not impossible. I truly wouldn't want Texas in the ACC and not because of all the "Texas kills conferences" blather. Texas would require friends unlike say a one off that was desperate enough to be an island like TCU. An 18 team "conference" is even more of a joke than the behemoths we have now. I believe that someday conferences will contract and that it would be a lot smoother if there was actually a cohesive core. If the ACC expands I would honestly and for truly rather have Cincinnati than Texas. At least that would be consistent with the ACC/Big East/Metro frankenconference the ACC has become. We survived, but only in zombie apocalypse fashion.

    As for the Texas square peg stuff, I agree. In a similar way of thinking if it didn't likely mean disaster for OSU I'd be all for OU in the B1G. Good for the state, good for academics at OU, and would absolutely kill the football program.
    The following users like this post: JRsec*

       

  40. #5640
    Originally Posted by XLance View Post
    I can't speak to the death of Texas' football program, but there continues to be "Texas talk" around the resort that abuts Sedgefield.
    XLance, I don't know if you were around ACC boards when Maryland left, but if you were are you having flashbacks with all these B1G centric posters hawking the product? It is uncanny how similar the posts are to the kind of stuff that was targeted towards Maryland.
    The following users like this post: JRsec*

       

  41. #5641
    Originally Posted by nebraskafaninwi View Post
    It isn't just about research money, it is also about sharing resources that is used in millions and millions of dollars of research. The B1G is the only conference in the nation that has a program developed for conference members where they can share specimens and other things for research.

    People who say others blow the whole B1G academics thing too much don't understand how powerful the B1G actually is in scientific research.

    Texas recruits will continue to go to OU no matter what UT does. Maybe UT goes with OU to the B1G. Maybe UT goes to the ACC. Maybe UT goes to the Pac. They will not be going to the SEC though.

    At the end of the day it isn't the end of the world for OU and UT to be in different conferences again.

    People who have a false fear of recruiting (and those who knowingly try to push that agenda...JRsec) have no understanding that most recruits stay in-state or go to a school in the neighboring state. With OU to the B1G the perception for kids in high school about OU actually improves. OU lost one of the top in-state kids to Ohio State in the last few days.

    Oklahoma State will find out they can live life on their own and don't need to wear the diapers anymore. Texas will do whatever they end up deciding to do.
    Tell me about Nebraska's academic climb since joining the B1G? Their B1G related research growth? Sharing library resources, professors, and intra-conference student transfers isn't what is being sold by the B1G guys on this thread. The B1G is a great academic association. It's not a state economy changing association.

    Texas recruits will always go to OU. Norman won't ever be more than 3 hours from the border. But anyone who thinks things will go on the same way forever hasn't paid attention to schools that have left a conference shared with Texas. Arkansas' TX recruiting tanked b/c the Big 12 owned Texas. Nebraska and Mizzou both struggle to pull kids. The wall has come down lately because UT is down. It will go back up when UT is good. If OU is making a long term move to the B1G without UT, we have to decide if we can live successfully on the other side of that wall for any length of time.
    6 users like Camel at Sea's post: Deadeye, jmboyer1, JRsec*, KSULynchMob, Pokerman, Trip

       

  42. #5642
    Trip's Avatar
    Posts
    3,321
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    ACC Ground Zero

    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    The state laws in Oklahoma which have been posted on this thread, were set up in 1941 prevent the interference in the operation of universities by the states elected officials…..OU is completely free to do as it desires on conference realignment and may legally separate its self from osu without fear of interference, if OU desirers.. Everyone knows the States Supreme Court would back OU in any legal challenge.

    Just yesterday Tramel wrote “Boren politically can do what he wants.” Why did he say that if OU could not separate its self from osu…
    Tramel also indicated that OU would go to the B1G if OU was officially invited.
    1) That's all well and good, until some OSU-leaning pol, with the media behind him, introduces legislation to stop OU from moving to the Big 10, and things are tied up in courts for years.

    2) Tramel is a Daily Oklahoman hack. Why would you give his pronouncements more weight than they deserve?
    The following users like this post: H. M.

       

  43. #5643
    Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    1) That's all well and good, until some OSU-leaning pol, with the media behind him, introduces legislation to stop OU from moving to the Big 10, and things are tied up in courts for years.

    2) Tramel is a Daily Oklahoman hack. Why would you give his pronouncements more weight than they deserve?
    I don't know that we'd get legislation trying to stop OU from going to the B1G. But if it were known that OSU had an invite with us to the SEC, the media and the government would be putting a LOT of pressure on OU to accept that offer. If we want to amicably part ways with OSU, they either need a secure landing spot or it needs to be clear there isn't one. The politics of turning one down on their behalf is terrible for OU.
    3 users like Camel at Sea's post: KSULynchMob, OU812, Trip

       

  44. #5644
    Trip's Avatar
    Posts
    3,321
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    ACC Ground Zero

    Originally Posted by H. M. View Post
    As for the Texas square peg stuff, I agree. In a similar way of thinking if it didn't likely mean disaster for OSU I'd be all for OU in the B1G. Good for the state, good for academics at OU, and would absolutely kill the football program.
    Correct. You get it.
    The following users like this post: jmboyer1

       

  45. #5645
    For the record, if UT is coming too, I'd be just fine with the B1G. The B1G West would be an upgraded version of the Big 8. But that's not what is being insinuated.
    2 users like Camel at Sea's post: OU812, Trip

       

  46. #5646
    Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    1) That's all well and good, until some OSU-leaning pol, with the media behind him, introduces legislation to stop OU from moving to the Big 10, and things are tied up in courts for years.

    2) Tramel is a Daily Oklahoman hack. Why would you give his pronouncements more weight than they deserve?
    People don't want to hear that, especially from an OSU guy, so I won't beat a dead horse. I'll let you and some of the other OU posters bludgeon it some more.

    But trust me, I've been on the other side of the litigation threat barrel with UVA and VT. Like you say, hand waving and quoting a chat response from Tramel ain't going to make it go away.
    The following users like this post: JRsec*

       

  47. #5647
    Trip's Avatar
    Posts
    3,321
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    ACC Ground Zero

    Originally Posted by Camel at Sea View Post
    For the record, if UT is coming too, I'd be just fine with the B1G. The B1G West would be an upgraded version of the Big 8. But that's not what is being insinuated.
    OU to the Big 10 with UT is better than without, but it still doesn't allay all of my concerns about the long-term impact on our football program. And like it or not, the OU brand is inextricably tied to the OU football program.
       

  48. #5648
    Originally Posted by Camel at Sea View Post
    Tell me about Nebraska's academic climb since joining the B1G? Their B1G related research growth? Sharing library resources, professors, and intra-conference student transfers isn't what is being sold by the B1G guys on this thread. The B1G is a great academic association. It's not a state economy changing association.

    Texas recruits will always go to OU. Norman won't ever be more than 3 hours from the border. But anyone who thinks things will go on the same way forever hasn't paid attention to schools that have left a conference shared with Texas. Arkansas' TX recruiting tanked b/c the Big 12 owned Texas. Nebraska and Mizzou both struggle to pull kids. The wall has come down lately because UT is down. It will go back up when UT is good. If OU is making a long term move to the B1G without UT, we have to decide if we can live successfully on the other side of that wall for any length of time.
    You stated this position eloquently in both this post and the lengthier one above. I really do believe that 16 is a fictitious number. If Oklahoma and O.S.U. were to accept an SEC invitation I would have to believe that we would strongly consider giving Texas the next best thing to its own conference, a division of their old friends. Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech could easily form a new division. The ACC won't vote against something that benefits ESPN. And autonomy is going to be tested sooner than later over how conferences can structure themselves. As long as it is a champs only model and everyone gets an entrant, I don't think anyone gains an advantage based on how their structure yields that one entrant.

    Besides even if Texas could influence a block of 4 votes it wouldn't be enough to block legislation in an 18 member SEC. Plus it gives Texas what they lack now but once had, the whip hand in their home state. The Horns have had some serious discussions with the SEC three times just since '91. I know they have had them with everyone, but my point is they don't close off any option, especially a lucrative one. I like our hand in this matter should OU and OSU head this way. Besides, a division is a boundary and it would mitigate to some extent outside accessibility to Texas recruits. And in the end nothing would have really changed for OU, UT, OSU, A&M or TTU except that Arkansas and Missouri would again benefit by association. The P5 in state option would be reduced to 3 and that helps OU the most.
    The following users like this post: jmboyer1

       

  49. #5649
    OU48A's Avatar
    Posts
    28,688
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Norman

    Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    1) That's all well and good, until some OSU-leaning pol, with the media behind him, introduces legislation to stop OU from moving to the Big 10, and things are tied up in courts for years.

    2) Tramel is a Daily Oklahoman hack. Why would you give his pronouncements more weight than they deserve?
    Just like Frank Shannon case you would see a very quick State Supreme Court decision handed down that would uphold our states constitutional passed laws and from a court that I might add has several OU law graduates.

    What you suggest would require a state law change that cannot go anywhere without the approval of people who hold key positions of power in the state, some of which are strong friends of OU.

    Tramel may be a hack but he has been talking to some of the right people on this recently.
       

  50. #5650
    Trip's Avatar
    Posts
    3,321
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    ACC Ground Zero

    Originally Posted by JRsec* View Post
    And in the end nothing would have really changed for OU, UT, OSU, A&M or TTU except that Arkansas and Missouri would again benefit by association. The P5 in state option would be reduced to 3 and that helps OU the most.
    I like all of that except for the A&M part. Is there any way the Cultists of College Station could be moved east?
       

Similar Threads

  1. Stranger Things - Netflix Orig
    By veyron_80 in forum Entertainment & Tech
    Replies: 200
    Last Post: October 15th, 2017, 03:06 PM
  2. CR Part VI: B1G things poppin
    By Camel at Sea in forum Heisman Park
    Replies: 4999
    Last Post: March 6th, 2014, 12:00 PM
  3. Stranger in a Strange Land
    By Tug Medick in forum The Pub
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 15th, 2013, 12:37 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 7th, 2012, 10:20 PM

Tags for this Thread