Bye Bye Brad Underwood, Hello Mike Boynton

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  1. #201
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    illinois may have more money to spend on a basketball coach than osu....but their results over the past 15 years aren't vastly different...
    so, a 2 mil a year raise says it doesn't matter.
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  2. #202
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    illinois may have more money to spend on a basketball coach than osu....but their results over the past 15 years aren't vastly different...
    Bill Self won a few B1G championships there. Didn't Self take Illinois to Final Four?

    And speaking of candidates for OSU. I don't understand the love affair OSU fans have for Doug Gotlieb. As point guard for OSU, he made Big XII Newcomer of Year as a transfer. He was a 2-time Big XII Honorable Mention; not First Team or Second Team but Honorable Mention. Led the team deep in the tournament and can be sort of blamed for OSU not winning a national title. Why? As point guard, and the OSU all time leader in Assists, Gotlieb made free throws in the low 40% range. With the game on the line, he handled the ball. All the opponent had to do was immediately foul Doug to stop the clock. He would miss both free throws, the opponent could score and immediately foul Doug. I recall the NCAA tv coverage and the announcers saying, "he is the worst free throw shooter in the nation; just foul him and you can win the game." One thing good about Doug, it proves OSU believes in second chances. Google Gotlieb at Notre Dame. He does have coaching experience. When he left Notre Dame, he went to a community college in California. Sat out as a redshirt player but served as an assistant coach.
    There are plenty of mid-major coaches out there who got their team into the tournament and looked respectable in losing to a top tier seed or even won in the first round.
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  3. #203
    Originally Posted by theend View Post
    you are right. But what he actually said and meant is worse and shows he isn't fit for the AD title.

    He doesn't realize you have to pay final four type money to get past the ISU, TT, KSU level. If you keep paying at or below that level guess what happens?
    you'll get no argument from me on him being fit for the AD title. Hell, we paid Travis Ford $2M this year to NOT coach for us. Holder is an idiot and an ****. (and not the good kind of ****, brett)
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  4. #204
    Originally Posted by MichSooner View Post
    Bill Self won a few B1G championships there. Didn't Self take Illinois to Final Four?

    And speaking of candidates for OSU. I don't understand the love affair OSU fans have for Doug Gotlieb. As point guard for OSU, he made Big XII Newcomer of Year as a transfer. He was a 2-time Big XII Honorable Mention; not First Team or Second Team but Honorable Mention. Led the team deep in the tournament and can be sort of blamed for OSU not winning a national title. Why? As point guard, and the OSU all time leader in Assists, Gotlieb made free throws in the low 40% range. With the game on the line, he handled the ball. All the opponent had to do was immediately foul Doug to stop the clock. He would miss both free throws, the opponent could score and immediately foul Doug. I recall the NCAA tv coverage and the announcers saying, "he is the worst free throw shooter in the nation; just foul him and you can win the game." One thing good about Doug, it proves OSU believes in second chances. Google Gotlieb at Notre Dame. He does have coaching experience. When he left Notre Dame, he went to a community college in California. Sat out as a redshirt player but served as an assistant coach.
    There are plenty of mid-major coaches out there who got their team into the tournament and looked respectable in losing to a top tier seed or even won in the first round.
    elite 8....16 years ago...
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  5. #205
    Originally Posted by MichSooner View Post
    Bill Self won a few B1G championships there. Didn't Self take Illinois to Final Four?
    self tied for two conference titles (like Lon did a few years before), and self took them to the elite 8.

    it was k-state's bruce weber who won two outright titles and took illinois to the final four. but his success was short lived.
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  6. #206
    Pistols Firing more or less nails it.

    t was somewhat simple to retrieve fans and fill GIA in 2017 after the Travis Ford era. Now? It’s going to be difficult, and you have three options.

    Pay big bucks to a proven name.
    Get a more unproven coach and repeat the Underwood formula.
    Hire Doug Gottlieb.

    I don’t think Holder wants to make the splash (financially) a proven name would offer, but I’m not sure he’ll be able to sell No. 2. Does that leave No. 3 as the most realistic choice? It sells itself and Gottlieb comes cheap. That sounds like a dream scenario for Holder. He needs the first and wants the second.

    But at the end of the day, I’m not sure if he’ll really be able to pull that trigger.
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  7. #207
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    Originally Posted by Vodnik View Post
    Pistols Firing more or less nails it.
    Yeah, but everyone knows now (if they didn't already) that MH/TBP are assh*les and don't want to deal with them.

    Dougie would probably take the job for 100K. MH/TBP really don't care for basketball anymore.
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  8. #208
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    Originally Posted by MichSooner View Post
    Bill Self won a few B1G championships there. Didn't Self take Illinois to Final Four?

    And speaking of candidates for OSU. I don't understand the love affair OSU fans have for Doug Gotlieb. As point guard for OSU, he made Big XII Newcomer of Year as a transfer. He was a 2-time Big XII Honorable Mention; not First Team or Second Team but Honorable Mention. Led the team deep in the tournament and can be sort of blamed for OSU not winning a national title. Why? As point guard, and the OSU all time leader in Assists, Gotlieb made free throws in the low 40% range. With the game on the line, he handled the ball. All the opponent had to do was immediately foul Doug to stop the clock. He would miss both free throws, the opponent could score and immediately foul Doug. I recall the NCAA tv coverage and the announcers saying, "he is the worst free throw shooter in the nation; just foul him and you can win the game." One thing good about Doug, it proves OSU believes in second chances. Google Gotlieb at Notre Dame. He does have coaching experience. When he left Notre Dame, he went to a community college in California. Sat out as a redshirt player but served as an assistant coach.
    There are plenty of mid-major coaches out there who got their team into the tournament and looked respectable in losing to a top tier seed or even won in the first round.
    I believe the love affair for Dougie is that he is an O-Stank grad and appears to love Stoolwater and he's Eddie Sutton's favorite son and is campaigning for him to be in HOF. AND he's willing to move to Stoolwater in spite of MH/TBP!!!

  9. #209
    Originally Posted by tycat947 View Post
    Yeah, but everyone knows now (if they didn't already) that MH/TBP are assh*les and don't want to deal with them.

    Dougie would probably take the job for 100K. MH/TBP really don't care for basketball anymore.
    Pay Doug Gottlieb a really low base salary, put in some really big incentives, like 20 win seasons, Big 12 wins, NCAA wins. ..ect. Gottlieb would sell tickets for 2 or 3 years, OSU could get out of this mess on the cheap.
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  10. #210
    if i were holder.....i'd see what kind of interest there is...
    if the phone doesn't ring.....i'd take a chance on doug....
    it's a gamble ....but if he is successful....he'll be there forever....and fan's won't blame him too much if doug fails...
    he'll likely have jim dickey on his staff as an assistant to hold his hand for a few years...
    wonder what other coaches would want to work for him...
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  11. #211
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    if i were holder.....i'd see what kind of interest there is...
    if the phone doesn't ring.....i'd take a chance on doug....
    it's a gamble ....but if he is successful....he'll be there forever....and fan's won't blame him too much if doug fails...
    he'll likely have jim dickey on his staff as an assistant to hold his hand for a few years...
    wonder what other coaches would want to work for him...
    Get a staff made up of only former OSU players and Eddie Sutton ass kissers.
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  12. #212
    Originally Posted by Vodnik View Post
    Get a staff made up of only former OSU players and Eddie Sutton ass kissers.
    maybe he only hires former OSU players who are now commentators like Brenden Manzer. Or only former OSU players who were thieves like <insert your favorite here>. Or only former players who couldn't shoot free throws like Andre Williams.
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  13. #213
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    Originally Posted by Vodnik View Post
    Get a staff made up of only former OSU players and Eddie Sutton ass kissers.
    Byron Houston is available.
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  14. #214
    #BringDougHome
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  15. #215
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    Originally Posted by MichSooner View Post
    Bill Self won a few B1G championships there. Didn't Self take Illinois to Final Four?

    And speaking of candidates for OSU. I don't understand the love affair OSU fans have for Doug Gotlieb. As point guard for OSU, he made Big XII Newcomer of Year as a transfer. He was a 2-time Big XII Honorable Mention; not First Team or Second Team but Honorable Mention. Led the team deep in the tournament and can be sort of blamed for OSU not winning a national title. Why? As point guard, and the OSU all time leader in Assists, Gotlieb made free throws in the low 40% range. With the game on the line, he handled the ball. All the opponent had to do was immediately foul Doug to stop the clock. He would miss both free throws, the opponent could score and immediately foul Doug. I recall the NCAA tv coverage and the announcers saying, "he is the worst free throw shooter in the nation; just foul him and you can win the game." One thing good about Doug, it proves OSU believes in second chances. Google Gotlieb at Notre Dame. He does have coaching experience. When he left Notre Dame, he went to a community college in California. Sat out as a redshirt player but served as an assistant coach.
    There are plenty of mid-major coaches out there who got their team into the tournament and looked respectable in losing to a top tier seed or even won in the first round.
    OU fans should celebrate if Gotdweeb gets the job. He has failure written all over him.
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  16. #216
    Originally Posted by Vodnik View Post
    #BringDougHome
    i know sooner fans think this is a good idea.....but if he turns out to be a good coach....it will not be a good thing for ou basketball....

  17. #217
    Originally Posted by Stinger_1066 View Post
    OU fans should celebrate if Gotdweeb gets the job. He has failure written all over him.
    I'd be kosher with it.

  18. #218
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    i know sooner fans think this is a good idea.....but if he turns out to be a good coach....it will not be a good thing for ou basketball....
    Id rather see Gottlieb than a proven big name coach at OSU. Holder wont hire a no name mid major coach again.

  19. #219
    Originally Posted by Vodnik View Post
    Id rather see Gottlieb than a proven big name coach at OSU. Holder wont hire a no name mid major coach again.
    he can't afford a proven big name coach......it would cost $4mil+
    underwood isn't proven or big name and he wanted 3 mil...
    he'll try to get the next hot mid major for cheap (hurly).....or someone like the northwestern coach....
    or......maybe he'll go after someone like crean if he could get him for 2-2.5 mil
    then he drops down to dickey or doug for 1-2 mil...
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  20. #220
    Hurly isn't coming anywhere near the osu program.


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  21. #221
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    he can't afford a proven big name coach......it would cost $4mil+
    underwood isn't proven or big name and he wanted 3 mil...
    he'll try to get the next hot mid major for cheap (hurly).....or someone like the northwestern coach....
    or......maybe he'll go after someone like crean if he could get him for 2-2.5 mil
    then he drops down to dickey or doug for 1-2 mil...
    Hurley's buyout would be too expensive. Chris Collins has his sites set on a higher level target and more money than OSU can afford.
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  22. #222
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    he can't afford a proven big name coach......it would cost $4mil+
    underwood isn't proven or big name and he wanted 3 mil...
    he'll try to get the next hot mid major for cheap (hurly).....or someone like the northwestern coach....
    or......maybe he'll go after someone like crean if he could get him for 2-2.5 mil
    then he drops down to dickey or doug for 1-2 mil...

    Thats what OSU fans fear the most. If he sucks OSU is stuck with him for a few years, If hes good, he bails for a better job. Its a no win for OSU.

  23. #223
    Originally Posted by Vodnik View Post
    Thats what OSU fans fear the most. If he sucks OSU is stuck with him for a few years, If hes good, he bails for a better job. Its a no win for OSU.
    and that's the best scenario...
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  24. #224
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    It's gotta be Gotdweeb at this point. I'm not sure a coach they should go after would even listen at this point.
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  25. #225
    The real problem is the town of Stillwater and I'm not just saying that because it's Okie State. Stillwater in on par with Starkville and Pullman the worst towns of any athletic program in a major conference. Most college towns are small to mid sized by their nature but those three towns are small towns that are rural outposts. They're not close to anything at all. No commercial air service and the shopping in town is relegated to strip malls and Walmarts.

    Last time I was in Stillwater is just mid tier chain restaurants and strip malls and you're an hour and a half minimum to anything and those aren't big cities, either. Don't look at the job from the perspective of athletics. Look at it from the perspective of a coach and his family who are making millions of dollars per year. You think the wives want to like in Stillwater? God no. You're shopping with rednecks and it's not like you can hop a quick flight to someplace better for the weekend. You're driving 2+ hours and then it's only a 2nd or 3rd tier airport.

    Hiring Gottlieb would be the ultimate white flag and admitting that the only people who want to coach the two major sports are people who used to play there. No one else with options wants to move there.

    Good luck filling that job when Gundy leaves......
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  26. #226
    Originally Posted by MichSooner View Post
    Bill Self won a few B1G championships there. Didn't Self take Illinois to Final Four?

    And speaking of candidates for OSU. I don't understand the love affair OSU fans have for Doug Gotlieb. As point guard for OSU, he made Big XII Newcomer of Year as a transfer. He was a 2-time Big XII Honorable Mention; not First Team or Second Team but Honorable Mention. Led the team deep in the tournament and can be sort of blamed for OSU not winning a national title. Why? As point guard, and the OSU all time leader in Assists, Gotlieb made free throws in the low 40% range. With the game on the line, he handled the ball. All the opponent had to do was immediately foul Doug to stop the clock. He would miss both free throws, the opponent could score and immediately foul Doug. I recall the NCAA tv coverage and the announcers saying, "he is the worst free throw shooter in the nation; just foul him and you can win the game." One thing good about Doug, it proves OSU believes in second chances. Google Gotlieb at Notre Dame. He does have coaching experience. When he left Notre Dame, he went to a community college in California. Sat out as a redshirt player but served as an assistant coach.
    There are plenty of mid-major coaches out there who got their team into the tournament and looked respectable in losing to a top tier seed or even won in the first round.
    I don't care for the guy but Doug could run a team. that's kinda what a good PG does. I think he knows enough basketball to be a decent coach.

  27. #227
    Originally Posted by Hallucinogenic_Toreador View Post
    I don't care for the guy but Doug could run a team. that's kinda what a good PG does. I think he knows enough basketball to be a decent coach.
    Does he have enough experience to be respected by the players? Just because he could play doesn't mean he can coach. Just because his dad coached doesn't mean he can coach. It's a huge risk to hire Doug. So I hope they hire him.


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  28. #228
    Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    Does he have enough experience to be respected by the players? Just because he could play doesn't mean he can coach. Just because his dad coached doesn't mean he can coach. It's a huge risk to hire Doug. So I hope they hire him.


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    I agree. my point was that a good PG is an extension of the coach on the floor. I played said position and I had to yell at my teammates a time or two.
    Doug seems gifted in the full of shit dept so he just may have a shot.
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    Last edited by Hallucinogenic_Toreador; March 20th, 2017 at 09:16 PM.

  29. #229
    Originally Posted by Big Pimpin' View Post
    The real problem is the town of Stillwater and I'm not just saying that because it's Okie State. Stillwater in on par with Starkville and Pullman the worst towns of any athletic program in a major conference. Most college towns are small to mid sized by their nature but those three towns are small towns that are rural outposts. They're not close to anything at all. No commercial air service and the shopping in town is relegated to strip malls and Walmarts.

    Last time I was in Stillwater is just mid tier chain restaurants and strip malls and you're an hour and a half minimum to anything and those aren't big cities, either. Don't look at the job from the perspective of athletics. Look at it from the perspective of a coach and his family who are making millions of dollars per year. You think the wives want to like in Stillwater? God no. You're shopping with rednecks and it's not like you can hop a quick flight to someplace better for the weekend. You're driving 2+ hours and then it's only a 2nd or 3rd tier airport.

    Hiring Gottlieb would be the ultimate white flag and admitting that the only people who want to coach the two major sports are people who used to play there. No one else with options wants to move there.

    Good luck filling that job when Gundy leaves......
    I can't really see why you and others believe Stillwater is the cause. Not that I'd want to move there, but it's still pretty much the same town it was years back when they were able to attract players from out of the area who brought the program much success.
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  30. #230
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  31. #231
    Originally Posted by Crazyivan View Post
    I can't really see why you and others believe Stillwater is the cause. Not that I'd want to move there, but it's still pretty much the same town it was years back when they were able to attract players from out of the area who brought the program much success.

    Not to mention most of what he said isn't true. They fly commercial out of Stillwater now. Free parking. No waiting.

    And it's an hour to downtown okc or Tulsa. So it's 25 mins further than where I live in north Edmond.

    And there's plenty of shopping beyond Walmart. That's stupid. It's a 50,000 population, college town. However, compared to Norman (pop 120K) Stw has at least 50% fewer strip malls. I think it's the same basic ratio though.

  32. #232
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    A personality like Doug Gotlieb, put in charge, will wear people thin by the end of 2 years and osu officials probably know this.

    How bad will those in charge at osu look when things are not going well if they hire a coach with almost no coaching experience…..

    After everything else that’s occurred in recent years at osu it seems like they could be risking their own jobs.

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  33. #233
    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    A personality like Doug Gotlieb, put in charge, will wear people thin by the end of 2 years and osu officials probably know this.

    How bad will those in charge at osu look when things are not going well if they hire a coach with almost no coaching experience…..

    After everything else that’s occurred in recent years at osu it seems like they could be risking their own jobs.

    they could also be risking their jobs by hiring a cheap mid major coach or an experienced coach who has been fired.....
    maybe holder can find someone who is just looking for a change of scenery/new start ......
    i don't think many osu fans will blame holder if he gives doug a shot and it doesn't work out.......everyone understands the risk..

  34. #234
    Rodney Terry, at Fresno St. Longtime Rick Barnes asst at UT. From TX, coached in TX.

    At Fresno, CBI runner up 4 years ago. NCAA last year, NIT this year.

    Not saying he's Larry Brown or even Hubie Brown but he's more accomplished than Doug.

    Or that I looked very hard to find someone to fit the region. Literally about 5 minutes.

    I just think Boo Blake when I think of "get the safe local guy". Not just Mike Gundy.

    Or Chris Mullin. Anyone forget he's at his alma mater after no coaching experience? Exactly. They are shit just after Lavin did okay.
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  35. #235
    Steve Lavin 4 post seasons in 5 years at St Johns, including 2 NCAAs. 60% win pct.

    Chris Mullin 22-43 so far in his two years. And he had tons of NBA experience

  36. #236
    Originally Posted by Hamilton View Post
    Rodney Terry, at Fresno St. Longtime Rick Barnes asst at UT. From TX, coached in TX.

    At Fresno, CBI runner up 4 years ago. NCAA last year, NIT this year.

    Not saying he's Larry Brown or even Hubie Brown but he's more accomplished than Doug.

    Or that I looked very hard to find someone to fit the region. Literally about 5 minutes.

    I just think Boo Blake when I think of "get the safe local guy". Not just Mike Gundy.

    Or Chris Mullin. Anyone forget he's at his alma mater after no coaching experience? Exactly. They are shit just after Lavin did okay.
    This is the kind of thinking I hope Holder does not do.


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  37. #237
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    Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    Does he have enough experience to be respected by the players? Just because he could play doesn't mean he can coach. Just because his dad coached doesn't mean he can coach. It's a huge risk to hire Doug. So I hope they hire him.
    I think he'll have a hard time relating to players.

  38. #238
    I question if he wants to coach so bad why didn't he go get a job coaching?


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  39. #239
    Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    I question if he wants to coach so bad why didn't he go get a job coaching?


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    When this question came up last year, he said that he was making too much money in broadcasting and that taking an assistant's job would have represented a pay cut he didn't want to take.

    Feel free to use that one in a future interview, especially if Dougie gets the job.

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  40. #240
    Originally Posted by Conagher View Post
    When this question came up last year, he said that he was making too much money in broadcasting and that taking an assistant's job would have represented a pay cut he didn't want to take.

    Feel free to use that one in a future interview, especially if Dougie gets the job.

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    That wouldn't fly for me. Most coaches get started by making nothing. Sometimes literally nothing. Look at Keiton. Now I'm sure he does something to draw a salary but he may make less than a janitor at the school. Small school head coaches in the OKC area are making less than $50K and in some cases closer to $30K.

    Coaches take grad assistant jobs for no pay. Assistant coaching positions where they have to teach classes or perform other duties to make enough to meet their needs. Some coaches will take positions like film coordinator in lieu of a coaching position to get their foot in the door.

    So I don't think Doug deserves a shot without putting the work in that others work, sometimes their whole lives, to get.


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  41. #241
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    Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    That wouldn't fly for me. Most coaches get started by making nothing. Sometimes literally nothing. Look at Keiton. Now I'm sure he does something to draw a salary but he may make less than a janitor at the school. Small school head coaches in the OKC area are making less than $50K and in some cases closer to $30K.

    Coaches take grad assistant jobs for no pay. Assistant coaching positions where they have to teach classes or perform other duties to make enough to meet their needs. Some coaches will take positions like film coordinator in lieu of a coaching position to get their foot in the door.

    So I don't think Doug deserves a shot without putting the work in that others work, sometimes their whole lives, to get.
    Gotdweeb comes with instant name recognition that can help sell tickets and woo recruits.

    He could retain Keiton as an assistant, and hire other notable former players like Desmond Mason that are still living in the area. Aren't there a couple of former OSU players coaching in OKC?

  42. #242
    Originally Posted by Stinger_1066 View Post
    Gotdweeb comes with instant name recognition that can help sell tickets and woo recruits.

    He could retain Keiton as an assistant, and hire other notable former players like Desmond Mason that are still living in the area. Aren't there a couple of former OSU players coaching in OKC?
    If that's what osu feels is best for their program then they should go for it.


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  43. #243
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    Deserve really has nothing to do with it.. Dougie has said he's been a finalist for other jobs in the past few years. I believe UNLV, New Orleans & maybe St. Louis have all given him interviews, so he's not against taking a smaller job, he's just not interested in going from the ground up. It's not unheard of, I kinda think he might be really good to great at it.. He'll hire real assistants to help with certain things that he's not used to, like practice schedules & whatnot..

    Other than Doug, Buzz makes sense but money would be a big issue & Andy Enfield actually makes a lot of sense, the change in cost of living from LA to Stillwater would make a huge difference.. They have some options, just not many & not real great ones..

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  44. #244
    This fiasco is pretty much a textbook example of why Joe C. always keeps an updated list of top candidates he would seriously consider for each sport in his desk. Saves a lot of time, and ensures he has already put a lot of thought into the matter.
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  45. #245
    Originally Posted by northspeter View Post
    Deserve really has nothing to do with it.. Dougie has said he's been a finalist for other jobs in the past few years. I believe UNLV, New Orleans & maybe St. Louis have all given him interviews, so he's not against taking a smaller job, he's just not interested in going from the ground up. It's not unheard of, I kinda think he might be really good to great at it.. He'll hire real assistants to help with certain things that he's not used to, like practice schedules & whatnot..
    coaching.
    Other than Doug, Buzz makes sense but money would be a big issue & Andy Enfield actually makes a lot of sense, the change in cost of living from LA to Stillwater would make a huge difference.. They have some options, just not many & not real great ones..

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  46. #246
    Evans is entering the draft. Another big loss for the pokes. Back to the basement they go.
    2 users like chsguy2013's post: SixBean, Vodnik


  47. #247
    Okay, don't cut me off too early, but is it just reasonably possible that Holder would consider Scott Sutton? Yea, I know that last name in OSU lore has both good and really bad meanings, but Scott seems to be the exception to that family issue. Doesn't appear to have the baggage and except for this last season, appears to be a pretty darn good head coach.
    3 users like Crazyivan's post: 1stTimeCaller, OU48A, Yuck Fu


  48. #248
    Originally Posted by Crazyivan View Post
    I can't really see why you and others believe Stillwater is the cause. Not that I'd want to move there, but it's still pretty much the same town it was years back when they were able to attract players from out of the area who brought the program much success.
    Don't look at it from the perspective of the players. Look at the coaches and their wives. A OC or DC in football can make $500-$750K. You think his wife wants to live in Stillwater? Now think of the wife of a HC making $2.5M. God no.

  49. #249
    Originally Posted by Crazyivan View Post
    Okay, don't cut me off too early, but is it just reasonably possible that Holder would consider Scott Sutton? Yea, I know that last name in OSU lore has both good and really bad meanings, but Scott seems to be the exception to that family issue. Doesn't appear to have the baggage and except for this last season, appears to be a pretty darn good head coach.
    He probably makes more that $3MM a year


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  50. #250
    Originally Posted by chsguy2013 View Post
    Evans is entering the draft. Another big loss for the pokes. Back to the basement they go.
    And Carroll a possibility of graduate transfer.

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