***Official Oklahoma City Thunder Off-Season Thread***

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  1. #801
    Originally Posted by SoonerVikeThunder View Post
    Russell Westbrook @russwest44

    Noah Russell Westbrook
    7lbs 5oz
    20inch long

    Sooners need to get his LOI going lol
    Welp---his Uncle just received his Masters Degree from OU---so we got that going for us. When Russ inks his new contract with the Thunder it will seal the deal !
       

  2. #802
    The ****ing celtics with the overall 1st pick. Unreal.
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  3. #803
    The reason you take Kanter now on his $18M contract is you believe in his upside, given that he's young, that he can provide enough production, and that at the end of that contract, you will have his bird rights.

    Whether or not he's worth $18M is a question we're not going to figure out here, because it's hard to really understand what people are worth right now in this cap environment (i.e. comparables are not good).

    I don't really think you can argue that he's worth less than $12M. So paying a $6M premium (if it is indeed so) is not ideal, but it's not even the most egregious contract we have on the payroll.
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  4. #804
    One guy who would fit the "wing help" need for us is JJ Redick. It's looking like the Clippers might not re-sign him. Adding him would allow Oladipo to take over the 6th man / back-up PG role. And it would give us another badly needed shooter.

    I think to afford him, 1) we don't re-sign Taj, 2) Collison comes off the books, 3) Singler gets waived, and 4) we don't over-pay for Roberson. Obviously we could also move Kanter but let's just assume we hang on to him.

    Starters: Russ, Redick, Robes/Grant, Sabonis/low rent vet, Adams
    Bench: Oladipo, Abrines, McDermott, Kanter

    That's a better team than the one we had this year. Still has holes but the offense will be productive and the bench will be better. Kanter was basically the only scoring option off the bench for a lot of games this year (in part b/c the back-up PG play wasn't good.) Dipo can score. And I'd guess we'll see improvement from Abrines and McDermott next season - particularly with a better back-up PG.

    And I think adding Redick would make Abrines more expendable to include in a trade package for one more star if the right deal emerges.
       

  5. #805
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    ^^Better than most!
       

  6. #806
    Redick = more guard than wing

    We need a wing.

    Pass

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  7. #807
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    Originally Posted by Camel at Sea View Post
    One guy who would fit the "wing help" need for us is JJ Redick. It's looking like the Clippers might not re-sign him. Adding him would allow Oladipo to take over the 6th man / back-up PG role. And it would give us another badly needed shooter.

    I think to afford him, 1) we don't re-sign Taj, 2) Collison comes off the books, 3) Singler gets waived, and 4) we don't over-pay for Roberson. Obviously we could also move Kanter but let's just assume we hang on to him.

    Starters: Russ, Redick, Robes/Grant, Sabonis/low rent vet, Adams
    Bench: Oladipo, Abrines, McDermott, Kanter

    That's a better team than the one we had this year. Still has holes but the offense will be productive and the bench will be better. Kanter was basically the only scoring option off the bench for a lot of games this year (in part b/c the back-up PG play wasn't good.) Dipo can score. And I'd guess we'll see improvement from Abrines and McDermott next season - particularly with a better back-up PG.

    And I think adding Redick would make Abrines more expendable to include in a trade package for one more star if the right deal emerges.
    Redick is great spot up shooter and a little underrated on defense but he will be 33 in a little over a month it will take $15 -$18 mil to get him to play in OKC. The Thunder need a backup PG and a more balanced, traditional SF than they do a spot up 2. Not saying he wouldn't help the Thunder but it would be an albatross contract in 2 years.
       

  8. #808
    Originally Posted by Teo9969 View Post
    The reason you take Kanter now on his $18M contract is you believe in his upside, given that he's young, that he can provide enough production, and that at the end of that contract, you will have his bird rights.

    Whether or not he's worth $18M is a question we're not going to figure out here, because it's hard to really understand what people are worth right now in this cap environment (i.e. comparables are not good).

    I don't really think you can argue that he's worth less than $12M. So paying a $6M premium (if it is indeed so) is not ideal, but it's not even the most egregious contract we have on the payroll.

    You most certainly can make that argument. Offensive minded big men who can't play defense are routinely signing for around $1-2 million. There isn't a market for these types of players for exactly the reason you saw in the Houston series. And the environment for these guys is just going to get more and more hostile as teams try to emulate what Golden State, Houston and Cleveland are doing.


    As for most egrergious contract on the roster, you're right. That distinction goes to Singler, who was given a long term deal despite not being a real NBA player and having no market. We offered Kanter significantly less than he's getting, but Portland offered him that big deal and we kind of panicked in an effort to show Durant we were willing to spend. Obviously that would have been worth it if it had convinced KD to stay, but it clearly had zero effect and now we're saddled with a contract that was bad when we signed it, and has gotten significantly worse due to systemic changes in the league over the first two years of the deal.
       

  9. #809
    I also think that looking at "name" free agents is not the way to go. We need to uncover some hidden talent and get guys in on below market rates. Presti and co. need to beat the bushes and uncover some of these guys. Obviously that's easier said than done, but it's an important part of building a winning roster. There just isn't value in getting into bidding wars on established veterans.
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  10. #810
    Originally Posted by Malicong View Post
    Redick is great spot up shooter and a little underrated on defense but he will be 33 in a little over a month it will take $15 -$18 mil to get him to play in OKC. The Thunder need a backup PG and a more balanced, traditional SF than they do a spot up 2. Not saying he wouldn't help the Thunder but it would be an albatross contract in 2 years.
    I'm mostly looking at a Redick signing as setting the table for an eventual 2nd move that puts us back in title contention because I don't see a 3 or a 4 that can get us over the top who is available in free agency. Doesn't have to be Redick though. It's just an approach to overhauling the roster based on his unique skillset. The best trade assets right now are shooters. We don't have enough shooters on our roster to give any away. Abrines is almost off-limits at this point. So signing Redick would do a couple of things. It would make Abrines - or Redick himself - expendable as a trade asset (maybe packaged with Kanter and/or Oladipo to bring back an all-star) and he'd make us better in the short term by freeing up Oladipo to play the 6th man role we envisioned for him before KD left. So we'd add badly needed shooting to our starting five, and our bench improves significantly, before we even put a trade package together.

    With the bench improvement alone, we're probably pushing the Rockets for the 3 seed without the 2nd trade. And we'd have the assets to make that 2nd trade.

    Either way Russ' prime is right now. We need to put pieces around him to win right now. I'm less worried about five years from now than next season and the following season. A declining Redick won't tank us down the road if Russ is still Russ and Adams continues to develop. Assume we signed him to a five year deal, if we get 3 solid years, his bad contract will be a trade asset in year 5.
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  11. #811
    Originally Posted by Camel at Sea View Post
    I'm mostly looking at a Redick signing as setting the table for an eventual 2nd move that puts us back in title contention because I don't see a 3 or a 4 that can get us over the top who is available in free agency. Doesn't have to be Redick though. It's just an approach to overhauling the roster based on his unique skillset. The best trade assets right now are shooters. We don't have enough shooters on our roster to give any away. Abrines is almost off-limits at this point. So signing Redick would do a couple of things. It would make Abrines - or Redick himself - expendable as a trade asset (maybe packaged with Kanter and/or Oladipo to bring back an all-star) and he'd make us better in the short term by freeing up Oladipo to play the 6th man role we envisioned for him before KD left. So we'd add badly needed shooting to our starting five, and our bench improves significantly, before we even put a trade package together.

    With the bench improvement alone, we're probably pushing the Rockets for the 3 seed without the 2nd trade. And we'd have the assets to make that 2nd trade.

    Either way Russ' prime is right now. We need to put pieces around him to win right now. I'm less worried about five years from now than next season and the following season. A declining Redick won't tank us down the road if Russ is still Russ and Adams continues to develop. Assume we signed him to a five year deal, if we get 3 solid years, his bad contract will be a trade asset in year 5.
    I would love to have Reddick. Shooters have a long shelf life also, always in demand and always needed.
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  12. #812
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    Robert Covington
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  13. #813
    Originally Posted by sperry View Post
    I also think that looking at "name" free agents is not the way to go. We need to uncover some hidden talent and get guys in on below market rates. Presti and co. need to beat the bushes and uncover some of these guys. Obviously that's easier said than done, but it's an important part of building a winning roster. There just isn't value in getting into bidding wars on established veterans.
    Totally agree. But that's what Presti has been doing, and when those players don't turn out to be gems (which odds say will be the case in a free market), some people kill him for caring about "sustainability" over winning now.

    But I'm with you 100%. Start outbidding and overpaying for older vets in an attempt to win now and you can become the Nets in a big hurry.
       

  14. #814
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    Originally Posted by sperry View Post
    You most certainly can make that argument. Offensive minded big men who can't play defense are routinely signing for around $1-2 million. There isn't a market for these types of players for exactly the reason you saw in the Houston series. And the environment for these guys is just going to get more and more hostile as teams try to emulate what Golden State, Houston and Cleveland are doing.


    As for most egrergious contract on the roster, you're right. That distinction goes to Singler, who was given a long term deal despite not being a real NBA player and having no market. We offered Kanter significantly less than he's getting, but Portland offered him that big deal and we kind of panicked in an effort to show Durant we were willing to spend. Obviously that would have been worth it if it had convinced KD to stay, but it clearly had zero effect and now we're saddled with a contract that was bad when we signed it, and has gotten significantly worse due to systemic changes in the league over the first two years of the deal.
    First, it isn't true that players averaging 14-15 ppg and 7-8 rpg on excelling shooting regularly sign for $1-2 million. The league minimum for a player with his tenure is $2.2 mil/per to start. The guys that go for $3-$4 million per are the guys that are past their prime and/or are fortunate to average more than 8 ppg more than twice a decade. Anyone that can score that much in 20 MPG is going to have value. Zach Randolph is the only player in the league that matched Kanter's offensive output that isn't on a rookie contract and makes less than $13 million per and even he is making $10 mil at 35 years old. If Kanter were on the open market, there is not way he goes for less than $12 mil/per.
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  15. #815
    Originally Posted by Malicong View Post
    First, it isn't true that players averaging 14-15 ppg and 7-8 rpg on excelling shooting regularly sign for $1-2 million. The league minimum for a player with his tenure is $2.2 mil/per to start. The guys that go for $3-$4 million per are the guys that are past their prime and/or are fortunate to average more than 8 ppg more than twice a decade. Anyone that can score that much in 20 MPG is going to have value. Zach Randolph is the only player in the league that matched Kanter's offensive output that isn't on a rookie contract and makes less than $13 million per and even he is making $10 mil at 35 years old. If Kanter were on the open market, there is not way he goes for less than $12 mil/per.
    The league minimum for guys going into their 7th year will be $1.84 next year. All of the guys I posted were putting up numbers similar to Kanter on a per possession basis, they just weren't playing as much because their teams were generally better and don't need their bad defensive big men to play big minutes. Our bench is shallow so we have to rely on Kanter.

    As for what Kanter would go for on the open market, no clue. Someone might very well pay him another terrible contract, doesn't mean he has trade value at his current $18 million contract.
       

  16. #816
    Originally Posted by htownSOONER View Post
    I would love to have Reddick. Shooters have a long shelf life also, always in demand and always needed.
    We're probably closer to affording korver than reddick. I think korver will be 35 or 36 next year so I doubt he gets much more than the $8 million mle. I would like to have a guy like reddick but he is going to fetch $15+ million. If they could add korver and Rudy gay plus a back up pg thru trade or free agency. Then they can take a draft and stash guy or one of the many 3 point specialists that may fall to 21.
       

  17. #817
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    I like the Jackson kid from UNC, I think he can develop into a NBA SF in no time.
       

  18. #818
    Originally Posted by Mixer! View Post
    I like the Jackson kid from UNC, I think he can develop into a NBA SF in no time.
    I agree. And the ojeleye kid from smu looks to have a similar skill set as draymond green and should be in the 2nd round.
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  19. #819
    No thanks on Korver. We've got McDermott to fill that role. Also, this is a super important draft pick for us. Need to hit on a wing or backup PG.

    Also, I know we already released him, but did McGary go full Blackmon and decide he'd rather sit around and smoke weed than be a professional athlete? Did he play in Europe this year, what happened to that buffoon?
       

  20. #820
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    Originally Posted by sperry View Post
    Also, I know we already released him, but did McGary go full Blackmon and decide he'd rather sit around and smoke weed than be a professional athlete? Did he play in Europe this year, what happened to that buffoon?
    racist bigot

    oh wait
       

  21. #821
    I'd be super stoked if the Thunder could draft Jackson out of UNC. I think he'll be long gone though.
       

  22. #822
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    Originally Posted by sperry View Post
    The league minimum for guys going into their 7th year will be $1.84 next year. All of the guys I posted were putting up numbers similar to Kanter on a per possession basis, they just weren't playing as much because their teams were generally better and don't need their bad defensive big men to play big minutes. Our bench is shallow so we have to rely on Kanter.

    As for what Kanter would go for on the open market, no clue. Someone might very well pay him another terrible contract, doesn't mean he has trade value at his current $18 million contract.
    It's actually $1.97 starting and $2.3 million 5th year ending for the league minimum on a 7th year player, so the point still stands that those level players do no go for $1-$2 mil.
    On edit: For some reason I had him as a 9th year player, not 7th.

    Even on a per minute basis, those others guys were not on the same level as Kanter. The only inside player on that list that came close was McGee who plays 9 min per game and was nearly out of the league completely after last season. Again, it's a false comparison as the situations, players ages, and contract timing are all different. Increased minutes does not mean increased stats.
    We already know what he was worth on the open market...his current contract. That is what was offered him by another team. Two years later, sure that could change, but I know he isn't only worth $1-$2 million and his contract is not way out of line for a player than averages 14 ppg and 7 rpg in 21 MPG and is one of the best offensive rebounders in the game, even with the weak defense. He was averaging nearly identical type numbers with Utah, so it is not just a function of him being the only option in OKC either. I've never claimed that he will bring in an all-star or anything close to it, but he has value and could certainly be the major part of a trade that brings back a good rotational player. Marking him as valueless and on the same level as an injury prone 30 something journeymen that is fortunate to be the league is ridiculous.
    Last edited by Malicong; May 18th, 2017 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Clarification
       

  23. #823
    Originally Posted by Malicong View Post
    It's actually $1.97 starting and $2.3 million 5th year ending for the league minimum on a 7th year player, so the point still stands that those level players do no go for $1-$2 mil.
    On edit: For some reason I had him as a 9th year player, not 7th.

    Even on a per minute basis, those others guys were not on the same level as Kanter. The only inside player on that list that came close was McGee who plays 9 min per game and was nearly out of the league completely after last season. Again, it's a false comparison as the situations, players ages, and contract timing are all different. Increased minutes does not mean increased stats.
    We already know what he was worth on the open market...his current contract. That is what was offered him by another team. Two years later, sure that could change, but I know he isn't only worth $1-$2 million and his contract is not way out of line for a player than averages 14 ppg and 7 rpg in 21 MPG and is one of the best offensive rebounders in the game, even with the weak defense. He was averaging nearly identical type numbers with Utah, so it is not just a function of him being the only option in OKC either. I've never claimed that he will bring in an all-star or anything close to it, but he has value and could certainly be the major part of a trade that brings back a good rotational player. Marking him as valueless and on the same level as an injury prone 30 something journeymen that is fortunate to be the league is ridiculous.
    I'm not sure what about the concept of relative value that you don't understand. He is better than those guys, but it is close. Those guys are on $1-3 million dollar contracts, he is on an $18 million contract. He doesn't come remotely close to covering that difference in value, which makes his contract a large liability, and something that we would have to provide assets to another team to convince them to take it off of our hands.
       

  24. #824
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    Ouch.

    Sorry about your luck Hayward and George.
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  25. #825
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    Originally Posted by 2121sooner View Post
    Ouch.

    Sorry about your luck Hayward and George.
    .....?
       

  26. #826
    Originally Posted by nstinson View Post
    .....?
    Because they missed out on being eligible for the new big bucks extension by not being named to an all nba team, I believe.
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  27. #827
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    I feel for Indiana fans. They are going to go through a much worse version of what OKC fans went through in KD's last season.

    PG13 has made no secret that he doesnt like the situation in Indiana and even (his people) have said he wants to go to LA. KD on the other hand played dumb all season.
       

  28. #828
    Originally Posted by HeroOfTheDay View Post
    I feel for Indiana fans. They are going to go through a much worse version of what OKC fans went through in KD's last season.

    PG13 has made no secret that he doesnt like the situation in Indiana and even (his people) have said he wants to go to LA. KD on the other hand played dumb all season.
    Much worse? I would have preferred to know up front that one of our superstars wanted to go to another team.


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  29. #829
    Yeah, IMHO it's better. Pragmatically, I'd rather get some sort of asset in return. People that compare LeBron leaving or this PG deal to #****made are mostly using some sort of weird feelings angle. Cleveland got stuff back, Indiana will too. We got cap relief weeks after everybody had agreed to terms with other teams.
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  30. #830
    Originally Posted by HeroOfTheDay View Post
    I feel for Indiana fans. They are going to go through a much worse version of what OKC fans went through in KD's last season.

    PG13 has made no secret that he doesnt like the situation in Indiana and even (his people) have said he wants to go to LA. KD on the other hand played dumb all season.
    Management brought this on themselves. Atlanta offered 4 first rounders for PG and they said no.
       

  31. #831
    Also Larry wanted to dramatically change the team and embrace small ball.

    The key is George playing a lot of 4.


    One problem, George didn't want to play any 4.

    Oops

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  32. #832
    The Hawks are throwing big money at established gms.


    They must not be able to track down Presti's phone number.

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  33. #833
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    I don't think that many people working in the NBA are fans of Presti's plan and vision. How successful have the former Thunder personnel who got GM jobs been?
       

  34. #834
    Originally Posted by Mixer! View Post
    I don't think that many people working in the NBA are fans of Presti's plan and vision. How successful have the former Thunder personnel who got GM jobs been?
    Rob Hennigan says hi.

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  35. #835
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    ...who?
       

  36. #836
    Originally Posted by Mixer! View Post
    ...who?
    Exactly

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  37. #837
    Kanter's passport has been cancelled and he is now being detained in the Romanian airport.

    This doesn't sound good.

    He could possibly be deported back to Turkey, which really really would not be good because I'm sure he would be arrested once he lands.

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  38. #838
    You can hear the worry in his voice.


       

  39. #839
    Originally Posted by SG1 View Post
    Kanter's passport has been cancelled and he is now being detained in the Romanian airport.

    This doesn't sound good.

    He could possibly be deported back to Turkey, which really really would not be good because I'm sure he would be arrested once he lands.

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    Is he ****ing around with people?


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  40. #840
    Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    Is he ****ing around with people?


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    No. Sounds like Erdogan may be messing with him though. Enes is not a fan, and iir has had some safety concerns bc of how critical he was when Erdogan began consolidating power.
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  41. #841
    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    No. Sounds like Erdogan may be messing with him though. Enes is not a fan, and iir has had some safety concerns bc of how critical he was when Erdogan began consolidating power.
    Like calling him "the Hitler of our time" right there? Yeah, I guess. Takes some balls to say that to the world on twitter.

    Sucks though. Guess for the Kanter critics, this would be a convenient way to get out of that contact, amirite?
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  42. #842
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    Maudz, please move thread to Thunderdome, thanx.
    Last edited by Mixer!; May 20th, 2017 at 02:42 PM.
       

  43. #843
    Mixer opened the door so here we go.

    I'll try not to go too far.

    I'll just say that the current administration makes this situation a lot more problematic.




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  44. #844
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  45. #845
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    Think we can trade him whilst at airport
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  46. #846
    The Turks reported Kanter's passport as "lost or stolen" and it's apparently the kind of shenanigans they pull to try and get somebody sent back to Turkey.

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  47. #847
    Originally Posted by SG1 View Post
    The Turks reported Kanter's passport as "lost or stolen" and it's apparently the kind of shenanigans they pull to try and get somebody sent back to Turkey.

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    Exactly my thoughts.

    Not sure what your prior post was referencing, but this isn't about Trump. It's about Erdogan.
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  48. #848
    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    Exactly my thoughts.

    Not sure what your prior post was referencing, but this isn't about Trump. It's about Erdogan.
    I'm saying don't expect much help from the state department.

    I know it's Erdogan. It'd be nice if Clay and/or the league could call somebody at state and ask them to call the Turks and tell them to cut this bullshit out.

    I don't think that's going to happen.

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  49. #849
    Originally Posted by SG1 View Post
    I'm saying don't expect much help from the state department.

    I know it's Erdogan. It'd be nice if Clay and/or the league could call somebody at state and ask them to call the Turks and tell them to cut this bullshit out.

    I don't think that's going to happen.

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    A call that goes something like, 'Armenian to tell me you're going to keep Kanter from coming home? What kind of Genocidal monsters are you?'
       

  50. #850
    I can't find any clauses in the NBA rules regarding tax relief if one of your players ends up a political prisoner in a Turkish prison. Maybe the Thunder brass will push for a lockout until they can negotiate something good.
       

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