CR Part XIV: Revenge of the Wallflowers

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  1. #4651
    Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    I suppose that's the theory. Seems to finally be working for USCe — but in fits and starts, and only after a couple of decades of the Gamecocks wandering in the wilderness. On the other hand, UK has been in the SEC since the dawn of time and their football program still sucks. I guess we wait and see.
    Missouri...yes, Missouri, has more 10 win seasons since 2007 than South Carolina has in its history. And Kentucky has half of what the Gamecocks have.

    4 ten win seasons vs 2 ten win seasons in program history. They're both hot garbage.

  2. #4652
    Originally Posted by NaturalStateReb View Post
    I'm not saying you can't win a natty with a 9-game schedule.

    But why play a 9-game schedule when you can play an 8-game schedule, all things being equal? You get an extra-home game that's almost certainly going to be a win, or you're able to schedule a good OOC P5 opponent. It gives you more scheduling flexibility, which is a big deal to schools like Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina who all have OOC rivalries they pretty much have to play every year.
    Oklahoma would have broken that 9 game 'rule' this year with merely competent defense.
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  3. #4653
    Originally Posted by bullet View Post
    And Arkansas moved into the SEC as arguably the 2nd strongest program in the conference and now is probably #10.
    It doesn't help that in 30 years they've had one good coach that sabotaged his own stint at the school.
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  4. #4654
    Originally Posted by PlayDeep60 View Post
    You have the grand scheme for realignment but yet don't understand that pulling all of it off will never happen. The PAC isn't going to boot members and you sure as hell won't ever see UT & OU in the PAC south.
    Correct, there is no history, other than the Big East dropping Temple, of any power conference ever kicking out a member school... But both (now technically defunct) leagues of the Pacific Coast Conference in 1959 & Southwest in 1996 were disbanded to form the current day PAC & XII, respectively... So the possibility exist for both the PAC-XII merged entities to simply agree to disband and reform in the configuration that best maximizes the academic/ athletic & revenue for the conference... Similar to how the Big 8 left it's lineage of wins & losses to start the XII...

    Originally Posted by PlayDeep60 View Post
    You would be joining the PAC not the other way around and you'll have to play by their rules.
    Example above explains now that may not be the case in reforming from two leagues, just as mentioned of in 1996...

    Originally Posted by PlayDeep60 View Post
    Texas loses all their power they won't ever control another conference that isn't Texas centric and we all know Texas doesn't like playing by others rules.
    In a PAC-XII merger, both Oklahoma & Texas have the exact same amount of control as USC & Stanford, in a reformed conference...
    There would be many universities that would share a commonality as western flagships as
    Texas
    Oklahoma
    Kansas
    Colorado
    Utah
    Arizona
    California
    Oregon
    Washington
    Plus the 3 private schools in TCU/ USC & Stanford (the 2nd most privates within a power conference, besides the ACC), and two state schools Iowa State & Arizona State...
    That line up of western universities would work well together on issues, and the economic hub of the conference would be dispersed between the states of California & Texas...

    Originally Posted by PlayDeep60 View Post
    You would be joining the PAC not the other way around and you'll have to play by their rules. Texas loses all their power they won't ever control another conference that isn't Texas centric and we all know Texas doesn't like playing by others rules.
    The relationship of Oklahoma & Texas have had a positive working relationship over the years within the conference, with both schools normally voting in lockstep with one another... Even to the point of Oklahoma choosing on many occasions to vote with Texas (along with most of the schools) on issues against that of former rival Nebraska...
    Besides, in speaking on the alleged abuses of issues from within the XII, Mississippi State has been a member of a conference with UT since when..?

    Originally Posted by PlayDeep60 View Post
    You seem to think Texas & OU joining the PAC will fix the viewership issues that the PAC has...it won't. Play the PAC members you want to play ooc and you can sit up watching those late games via Amazon Prime on your iphone.
    Actually, a staggering of the media broadcast windows are available in a PAC-XII merger allows for kickoffs of multiple games from as early as noon on the east coast, to 11 pm at night on the east coast...
    And no, the merged conference would not have Oklahoma & Texas playing late night games other than the 7 pm & 8 pm windows for the east coast viewers as to maximize eyeballs locked into the games each Saturday... That' why ESPN way willing to pay 5x the amount of FOX to hold the 3rd tier rights to UT...

    As the network executives of both ESPN & FOX at the time had great concerns of losing the upcoming bids to NBC or another competitor in the PAC...

  5. #4655
    Originally Posted by Luku View Post
    I don’t think the BigXII would be a good network partner with the PAC. The PAC needs to monetize lower fan interest among large populations while competing with DTV/NFL Sunday Ticket. The BigXII needs to monetize high interest in smaller markets without as much of a pro sports challenge.

    The ACC and ESPN would be a very good match for the PAC Network.
    1) PAC has the infrastructure for broadcast and streaming that the ACC needs to develop.
    2) ACC has the ESPN backing to overcome provider resistance in the coastal pro-sports dominated markets.
    3) the combo is the best for providing live content across all time zones. The CTZ is just as easily covered by later ACC games and earlier PAC games (MTZ schools) as it is back BigXII schools.
    4) the ACC and PAC schools don’t really compete for recruits or markets so their are fewer possible entanglements and conflicts of interest than with the BigXII.
    5) there’s no Texas to deal with trying to leverage the deal disproportionately in their favor.

    There are way more “tangible synergies” between the ACC and PAC networks than between the PACN and BigXII.
    At face value it may seem that way but if you dig deeper into the issues with the PACN it becomes apparent that the partnership could benefit both parties.

    ESPN owning part of the PACN could be a possibility but the ACCN is a done deal so the ACC has not reason (or power) to do much at this point.

    If you really want a deeper understanding of the issues with the PACN this is a good read.
    https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/...otline-series/


    The TLDR version is they have a network with deals most major Cable, streaming, and Dish but not Direc TV. Direct TV has more customers in the Central and Eastern time zone which was the hangup.

    We have no network but do have rabid fans. They have a network but lack rabid fans. Together that network would have a lot of options. Not to mention other partnerships like a bowl game at the new stadium in Vegas, scheduling agreement, playing international BB Games, etc...
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  6. #4656
    Originally Posted by JRsec* View Post
    I agree there's a potential market there. I agree it would help to monetize the PAC. And, I agree basketball would be of interest and that some Chinese players in the PAC would spur interest. I just doubt Scott's ability to follow through in concrete ways. But I do applaud your optimism and hope that the PAC can one day add a little aggressive pursuit to their progressive ideas.
    People in California are many things, but at PAC schools they are really smart, in many cases the smartest of the smart. They understand things like social media and technology in the same way that the Big 12 understands energy or agriculture.

    Never underestimate really smart people on the cutting edge of technology.

  7. #4657
    Originally Posted by hank970 View Post
    Where you make your purchases should have no bearing on your charity giving. Believe it or not, you could do most of your shopping online and still support the local animal shelter.
    True. Smile.Amazon.com. And I did select a rescue shelter for my charity. We still donate to our local shelter, Purrfect Pets, because I'd have to buy a car or a bass boat online to make any decent size donation.
    The following users like this post: The Grassy Nole


  8. #4658
    Originally Posted by SnowyRangeSooner View Post
    People in California are many things, but at PAC schools they are really smart, in many cases the smartest of the smart. They understand things like social media and technology in the same way that the Big 12 understands energy or agriculture.

    Never underestimate really smart people on the cutting edge of technology.
    I look at the budget issues in California and wonder how really smart people could do that to themselves? What I never underestimate is just how great a screw up people who believe themselves to be smarter than everyone else can make? It's time for them to show us how smart they are. BTW: Tim Cook is an Auburn guy!

    And University Presidents are great academicians, who may be politically aware, but who are seldom grounded in the issues dogging their states. For all of their specialization and brilliance they are too removed from their public to truly segway their own goals with that of their state benefactors. But they are masters of spending enough to be able to ask for more.
    2 users like JRsec*'s post: bullet, The Grassy Nole


  9. #4659
    Originally Posted by JRsec* View Post
    I look at the budget issues in California and wonder how really smart people could do that to themselves? What I never underestimate is just how great a screw up people who believe themselves to be smarter than everyone else can make? It's time for them to show us how smart they are. BTW: Tim Cook is an Auburn guy!

    And University Presidents are great academicians, who may be politically aware, but who are seldom grounded in the issues dogging their states. For all of their specialization and brilliance they are too removed from their public to truly segway their own goals with that of their state benefactors. But they are masters of spending enough to be able to ask for more.

    Wow, you have a lot going on with the west coast it seems. Feel free to claim victory and write them off if you want.

    I'm going to stay tuned.

  10. #4660
    Originally Posted by SnowyRangeSooner View Post
    Wow, you have a lot going on with the west coast it seems. Feel free to claim victory and write them off if you want.

    I'm going to stay tuned.
    I'm not writing them off either, but I am waiting to see some of that sizable potential realized. I do have issues with their debt and have family living in both California (Irvine) and Seattle with friends in San Francisco. And my observations about college presidents is universal and hardly limited to the West Coast.

    From my vantage point I just think Scott should have been able to monetize those Asians markets already and a plan where he once considered Hawaii as a bridge to that seems to have gone by the boards. It's hard to say if it is Scott, or the University Presidents of the PAC schools who have put the brakes on some of those plans. 6 years ago I thought the vision was great and was prepared to see the PAC take the lead with regard to offshore development of interest in their product. I also expected to see them take a different tack after the initial carriage issues. I think in that regard that the President's have been to blame.

    So I'm not being unduly negative with regard to these plans, they've had great merit. But I am being critical of organization and follow through to obtain those objectives and I strongly suspect that both the presidents and Scott have failed to provide the necessary push to try to realize those plans.

    The budgetary woes of the state are a separate matter.

    So I would share your enthusiasm if I saw a few successful strides in that direction. And, I do agree it's not too late to achieve it. But they've fallen even farther behind by stalling.

  11. #4661
    boomhorn.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jett View Post
    ESPIN is dying. ESPN's new streaming app/gimmick will be a flop. Tiddlywinks and 30 for 30? lol I will reactivate my PSVue account in August. The grits crowd made a mistake when they signed a long term agreement with ESPN. NFLX vs DIS? Take NFLX. ESPIN vs Tech Cos? Don't be foolish and bet against the tech companies. They have deep pockets. OU to B1G? lol NC.
    The power is shifting to the tech companies with virtual reality for a full effect experience far better than standard television.
    ESPN CBS FOX and NBC will need to evolve to keep up to shifting trends than put the rabbit ears of home tv at a disadvantage to the mobility of virtual reality of tech giants like Facebook Twitter Netflix and Amazon. That makes the Big 12 a power as a media free agent in less than 8 years to join the revolution by itself or teamed up with another conference.
    Satellite and Cable Companies Still Have a Lock on Sports, But For How Much Longer?
    by Matt Lopez August 30, 2017 1 comment
    Want to hear a broken record — “traditional television as we know it is over.” That melody has been played over and over again, because, well, it’s true.
    https://www.thevideoink.com/2017/08/...s-much-longer/
    New Virtual Reality Buzz Excites Cord Cutters
    February 8, 2018 – by Patricia Howard in News
    The last week has been a progressive whirlwind for the virtual reality (VR) industry. Wal-Mart has acquired the rights to a VR company in order to stay on top of the fledgling industry—and other companies are following suit. https://nocable.org/news/new-virtual...s-cord-cutters


  12. #4662
    boomhorn.'s Avatar
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    The type of eyewear that will bring the customer as close as you can get to being there in real life and still give mobility in being usable almost anywhere.


    Major media will have to catch up to stay advanced against the tech giants of Silicon Valley.
    Cord cutters will force the hand of television to be switching in the future to virtual reality like this video of a Big 12 non conference game KSU against Stanford.


    At some time in the near future TV is going the way of the newspaper and the typewriter, tech is advancing faster than many customers can even imagine.

  13. #4663
    Originally Posted by boomhorn. View Post
    The type of eyewear that will bring the customer as close as you can get to being there in real life and still give mobility in being usable almost anywhere.


    Major media will have to catch up to stay advanced against the tech giants of Silicon Valley.
    Cord cutters will force the hand of television to be switching in the future to virtual reality like this video of a Big 12 non conference game KSU against Stanford.


    At some time in the near future TV is going the way of the newspaper and the typewriter, tech is advancing faster than many customers can even imagine.
    Wow, that 360 video is quite impressive, and I like Joel Klatt calling games. I can imagine the next generation watching a game from anywhere in the world they can get a internet connection with those MACH pieces. Actually a pretty cool experience much like being at the game from what I saw. But no fat ass taking half your seat, waiting for bathroom, 5$ cokes, sitting in traffic, etc...

    Each conference has their strong points but when it comes to tech it's hard to match the PAC. It would be wise for the Big 12 to work with the PACN to get our t-3 content to a national and international stage as opposed to RSN's and 1 school streaming services like we have now.

  14. #4664
    Originally Posted by SnowyRangeSooner View Post
    Wow, that 360 video is quite impressive, and I like Joel Klatt calling games. I can imagine the next generation watching a game from anywhere in the world they can get a internet connection with those MACH pieces. Actually a pretty cool experience much like being at the game from what I saw. But no fat ass taking half your seat, waiting for bathroom, 5$ cokes, sitting in traffic, etc...

    Each conference has their strong points but when it comes to tech it's hard to match the PAC. It would be wise for the Big 12 to work with the PACN to get our t-3 content to a national and international stage as opposed to RSN's and 1 school streaming services like we have now.
    If their tech is so great, why can't the PAC attract fans?
    The XII can have a network as soon as UT gives up the LHN.

  15. #4665
    Originally Posted by notre dame joe View Post

    We could've walked into the Big East offices any time and named our own price.
    Times change, let's see what happens. Personally I am ok with ND being an Independent, growing up as a Catholic in the Midwest will do that to you however with how the future of the sport is continuing to evolve I feel this may be the ultimate outcome for the Irish. Give them a cross rivalry with Georgia Tech and you have an eastern seaboard schedule with an OoC West Coast, and wherever the Irish desire.

    Originally Posted by kopp0e View Post
    Had any school in division 1 won a national title before the CFP, using the playoffs
    Well UCF won a title while not even being in the playoffs during the playoff era, so anything is possible!
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  16. #4666
    Originally Posted by RocketCitySooner View Post
    Can't wait to see Kopp0e's Paint Brush take on PAC/ACC merger with China.
    I would only want to see this if the headquarters for this behemoth was on the damn moon!

  17. #4667
    Originally Posted by The Grassy Nole View Post
    I would only want to see this if the headquarters for this behemoth was on the damn moon!
    Phobos or Deimos?

  18. #4668
    Originally Posted by bullet View Post
    So you can play Idaho St. and Coastal Carolina?
    And watch our local economies get all of that sweet, sweet, Coastal Carolina home game economic impact. Since it doesn't seem to hurt us in the postseason, there's really no reason not to.
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  19. #4669
    Originally Posted by bullet View Post
    And Arkansas moved into the SEC as arguably the 2nd strongest program in the conference and now is probably #10.
    Let's not totally lose our minds here on the #2 program bit.

  20. #4670
    Originally Posted by RocketCitySooner View Post
    If their tech is so great, why can't the PAC attract fans?
    The XII can have a network as soon as UT gives up the LHN.
    A similar question could be asked in:
    If their CIC is so great, why can't the B1G keep from losing it's population in all of it's states besides New Jersey & Maryland..?
    The BTN can have a fully owned network, as soon as the B1G buys the 51% that FOX owns...
    Now, I am not saying that tv is dead or dying from my point of view, but there are plenty of people in the business sector that seems to think it is compared to the quickly evolving tech sector of phablets/ tablets/ phones & virtual reality apparatuses...

    People are ready to abandon their TV sets in record numbers, study suggests
    Only 23 percent of people globally preferred watching TV on a TV set, a 55 percent decrease from the year before according to an Accenture survey
    More than 40 percent of TV viewers opted for a laptop or desktop computer
    Another survey by GfK suggested people without cable or satellite subscriptions preferred shows from streaming platforms, as opposed to traditional TV networks
    Michelle Castillo | @mishcastillo
    Published 12:54 PM ET Mon, 24 April 2017 Updated 1:10 PM ET Mon, 24 April 2017
    CNBC.com https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/24/tele...ure-study.html

    Two new surveys published Monday spell out the dramatically changing habits of TV watchers, highlighting the challenges faced by traditional broadcasters.
    A new Accenture report shows a dramatic drop in the percentage of people who prefer to watch TV on a regular television set.

    The Accenture 2017 Digital Consumer Survey, which involved 26,000 people in 26 countries, showed only 23 percent of viewers preferred watching programming on a television set. Among U.S. survey takers, it was marginally higher at 25 percent.
    Last year, 52 percent of people worldwide and 59 percent in the U.S. said their number one choice was to watch TV on a TV set.
    The shift means that traditional advertising models may be upended, as live television typically makes up the majority of TV ad inventory.

    "The dominance of the TV set as the undisputed go-to entertainment device is ending," Accenture's global managing director for its broadcast business Gavin Mann said in a statement. "While a great number of people still watch plenty of TV shows on TV sets, our research uncovers a rapid acceleration in their preference for viewing on other digital devices — especially laptops, desktops and smartphones."
    Let's no forget, that the PAC has 100% controll of it's 3rd tier product of it's conference network...
    And in a PAC-XII merger, the schools have the most flexibility in looking to navigate the best deal with the likes of tech giants as Amazon & Facebook...
    While on the other hand, both ESPN & FOX have the other 3 power conferences locked up to some extent...
    ESPN has control of 3rd teir rights of the ACC & SEC into 2035ish...
    And curently, FOX owns outright 51% of the B1G 3rd tier network; both of these can be seen as a blessing & a curse in the same...
    In having a powerful broadcast partner that is a distributor is a good bargan; but if as possibly predicted television becomes a dying medium, then those leagues are tied up...

    Just another reason that a PAC-XII merger would be a success as the league would be a maverick player in the fast pace & ever changing medium of media distributions...

    And the PAC has large population of fans, just a problem with getting carriage with DirecTV, which would be solved in a merger with the XII...
    It's kind of like when you throw a party, and one group says "You bring the booze, and we'll bring the babes", that's in essence what would happen in a PAC-XII merger...
    And here's a view of all 12 PAC campus stadiums... It sure seems like there is great potential for jam packed competition with current members from the XII as divisional foes...

    While the B1G will still have the same problem of a decreasing population within the majority of it's conference footprint, while also strapped to a possibly out-of-date broadcast medium of television...

  21. #4671
    Originally Posted by The Grassy Nole View Post
    Well UCF won a title while not even being in the playoffs during the playoff era, so anything is possible!
    True... But the question was posed as a 9 game schedule was not optimal to promote a national championship team...
    But as pointed out, if a certain team does not have a defensive coordinator issue, that would not be a talking point as of this year...

  22. #4672
    Originally Posted by boomhorn. View Post
    At some time in the near future TV is going the way of the newspaper and the typewriter, tech is advancing faster than many customers can even imagine.
    This ^ ^ SEC made a huge mistake when they extended their contract with ESPIN through 2034. We will see flying cars before 2034 rolls around.

  23. #4673
    Originally Posted by SnowyRangeSooner View Post
    Wow, that 360 video is quite impressive, and I like Joel Klatt calling games. I can imagine the next generation watching a game from anywhere in the world they can get a internet connection with those MACH pieces. Actually a pretty cool experience much like being at the game from what I saw. But no fat ass taking half your seat, waiting for bathroom, 5$ cokes, sitting in traffic, etc...

    Each conference has their strong points but when it comes to tech it's hard to match the PAC. It would be wise for the Big 12 to work with the PACN to get our t-3 content to a national and international stage as opposed to RSN's and 1 school streaming services like we have now.
    Just wait until they load it with spam 2" from your eyes.
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  24. #4674
    Originally Posted by RocketCitySooner View Post
    Phobos or Deimos?
    So a Mars office? Might be occupied by these guys already:


  25. #4675
    Originally Posted by The Grassy Nole View Post
    So a Mars office? Might be occupied by these guys already:

    Not if Slim Whitman yodels there!

  26. #4676
    Originally Posted by NaturalStateReb View Post
    Let's not totally lose our minds here on the #2 program bit.
    Its arguable. In the 90s Tennessee and LSU had been in long droughts. Florida still had never won an SEC championship (at least without having it vacated for cheating). I know I've posted this somewhere. Don't remember if I am repeating myself here.
    1960s Arkansas #3 in winning %. Other SEC schools in top 20-Alabama #1, Ole Miss #4, LSU #13, Florida #20
    1970s Arkansas #16 in winning %. Other SEC school in top 20-Alabama #2. (5 of the 15 ahead of them were not majors-TN St., Yale, SD St., Miami O., Central Mich.)
    1980s Arkansas #11 tied in winning %. Other SEC schools in top 20-UGA #7, Auburn #10, Alabama #11 tied

    Only Alabama had a better winning % cumulative in those 3 decades before they joined. Only Alabama was in the top 20 more than 1 of those decades.

  27. #4677
    Originally Posted by RocketCitySooner View Post
    If their tech is so great, why can't the PAC attract fans?
    The XII can have a network as soon as UT gives up the LHN.
    If you want to debate the West Coast being on the cutting edge of Technology with PAC graduates all over top management at these companies you will have to do so with someone else. Not even worth discussing IMO.

    As far as fans West coast folks are just different. Not the usual kind of t-shirt fans who wear college gear all the time and talk football year round which are common thought the South and Midwest. They are much more sophisticated than the folks in SEC country who call in to Finebaum and take college sports as a serious part of their life even wearing college gear most of the time and having stickers on cars, flags, mailboxes, etc...

    They might be different and fun to make fun of but make no mistake they know technology as well as social media. We can laugh at the PACN but all there games which are not on major networks area available nationally and internationally on PACN while we get some on RSN's and others are just streaming, most people across the country don't even have access to OU t-3 games.

    And when it comes down to it all that matters is the number of people watching on TV, doesn't matter if they are watching BB from China or FB from Atlanta. That is why I see a lot of upside to the PAC as most of the p-5 is thinking internationally, I know the SEC is working hard in Mexico for example. Other conferences are playing games in Europe, etc... This race is not even close to over.


  28. #4678
    By:Ty Duffy | January 14, 2016 4:20 pm ET

    The future impact of cord-cutting may be far more dramatic. Where does that leave college football? The sport’s present sugar daddy ESPN, at the very least, will be shelling out far less. The same cord-cutting that harms ESPN may kill off the viewer-less conference TV networks as constituted. College football may see a finite, diminished revenue pool, concurrent with increased business costs as it resolves its amateurism conundrum and perhaps deals with increased insurance premiums as medical research continues.

    Projecting specifics is murky. But, the broad direction is clear. College Football will operate more like a business, optimizing itself to create revenue (rather than just distributing it). We can expect far greater centralization and collective action. Many of the sport’s lovable little inefficiencies may be cast aside.

    Without cable, college football would be attracting viewers, not trying to collect what amounts to a college football tax over the largest population footprint. The focus would move toward producing the most quality games possible. That impetus could precipitate radical changes to scheduling and the way the sport is structured.

    * For what it’s worth, I’m turning 32. Most of my friends are college-educated, relatively affluent, and on the older end of millennial. None are egregious, anti-television hippies. Not a single one of them has had a cable TV subscription since college.

    http://thebiglead.com/2016/01/14/esp...lege-football/

    2034!

  29. #4679
    Originally Posted by Jett View Post
    By:Ty Duffy | January 14, 2016 4:20 pm ET

    The future impact of cord-cutting may be far more dramatic. Where does that leave college football? The sport’s present sugar daddy ESPN, at the very least, will be shelling out far less. The same cord-cutting that harms ESPN may kill off the viewer-less conference TV networks as constituted. College football may see a finite, diminished revenue pool, concurrent with increased business costs as it resolves its amateurism conundrum and perhaps deals with increased insurance premiums as medical research continues.

    Projecting specifics is murky. But, the broad direction is clear. College Football will operate more like a business, optimizing itself to create revenue (rather than just distributing it). We can expect far greater centralization and collective action. Many of the sport’s lovable little inefficiencies may be cast aside.

    Without cable, college football would be attracting viewers, not trying to collect what amounts to a college football tax over the largest population footprint. The focus would move toward producing the most quality games possible. That impetus could precipitate radical changes to scheduling and the way the sport is structured.

    * For what it’s worth, I’m turning 32. Most of my friends are college-educated, relatively affluent, and on the older end of millennial. None are egregious, anti-television hippies. Not a single one of them has had a cable TV subscription since college.

    http://thebiglead.com/2016/01/14/esp...lege-football/

    2034!
    He's basically envisioning a future where: "Some of the smaller, less valuable football schools get shafted." Since if one wishes to improve the quality of the games, one must 'cull the herd'.
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  30. #4680
    Originally Posted by RocketCitySooner View Post
    He's basically envisioning a future where: "Some of the smaller, less valuable football schools get shafted." Since if one wishes to improve the quality of the games, one must 'cull the herd'.
    Well that's the typical youngster for you. So filled with anger at the status quo and so bereft of analytical skills that they rush to schadenfreude after reading a report that actually announces the demise of the very thing they think they are defending.

    All that piece stated is what we've been talking about for 2 years now, content will drive the bus for paydays moving forward. That's why the SEC and Big 10 will be looking to add brands, and why brands (like Texas and Oklahoma) will be seeking to align themselves with (drum roll please) "other brands." And since the SEC and Big 10 already have the most viewers then there's your concentration points because the people watching those two conferences are from regions who don't feel taxed by ESPN for presenting the product they desire to see, and represent the regions who will purchase the viewing privileges for those games when the market model subscription fee dies.

    It's the truly pathetic viewership of the PAC and ACC that will only further doom them when the subscription fee pay model dies. To hear a PAC fan arguing for the death of subscription fees and giddy over the day when their pay will be derived by actual viewers is ultimately amusing to me. It's like a guy soaked in gasoline begging for a match. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will destroy athletics in the PAC as fast as streaming will. If they think they don't make enough now, wait until they actually get paid by the number of viewers.

    You are correct that it will force more consolidation. Instead of a P5 of 65 schools, or a P4 of 64, we will probably be looking at least at a P3 of 60 total schools, but more likely a P2 of 48.

    And sadly for our West Coast friend the primary members of the Big 10 and SEC will still be viable, and will remain the best paid schools. But then the logic displayed by the most recent graduates of our finest public schools leaves me troubled yet again for the future of our children. In the sarcastic words of Voltaire, "And this in the best of all possible worlds."
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  31. #4681
    Originally Posted by RocketCitySooner View Post
    He's basically envisioning a future where: "Some of the smaller, less valuable football schools get shafted." Since if one wishes to improve the quality of the games, one must 'cull the herd'.
    2010
    Comcast Pretends That Cord Cutters Aren't Cord Cutters If They Cut Cord Because Of The Economy
    from the denial-is-a-channel-on-the-internet dept

    Comcast lost 275,000 cable subscribers last quarter, and has lost 622,000 in the first 9 months of 2010. More evidence of "cord cutting"? Nope, says the cable giant. It's evidence that the economy sucks. That's the short version of the company's explanation for the drop during its earnings call this morning: It had a variety of reasons to explain the exodus of subscribers, but all of them revolved around money that their previous customers don't have or don't want to part with.

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...-economy.shtml

    Fast forward to eight years later … Quality? DIS/ESPINPlus $4.99 a month for rubbish. smh DIS/ESPIN are standing in Quicksand and there is not a dayum thing they can do about it. OU will have leverage when WAC 12's gor agreement expires. I hope they use it wisely.

  32. #4682
    In a streaming model driven by content, pound for pound the PAC-XII would stand up just as well if not actually better for annual in division matches against former national champions as recognized by the Associated Press since 1936...

    NCAA Division 1 titles as recognized by the Associated Press since 1936 - (maps of teams) within a PAC/ SEC & B1G divisional setup shown...



    1936 Minnesota Golden Gophers
    1938 TCU Horned Frogs
    1939 Texas A&M Aggies
    1940 Minnesota Golden Gophers
    1941 Minnesota Golden Gophers
    1950 Oklahoma Sooners
    1955 Oklahoma Sooners
    1956 Oklahoma Sooners
    1958 LSU Tigers
    1960 Minnesota Golden Gophers
    1962 USC Trojans
    1963 Texas Longhorns
    1967 USC Trojans
    1969 Texas Longhorns
    1970 Nebraska Cornhuskers
    1971 Nebaska Cornhuskers
    1972 USC Trojans
    1974 Oklahoma Sooners
    1975 Oklahoma Sooners
    1985 Oklahoma Sooners
    1994 Nebraska Cornhuskers
    1995 Nebraska Cornhuskers
    2000 Oklahoma Sooners
    2003 USC Trojans
    2004 USC Trojans
    2005 Texas Longhorns
    2007 LSU Tigers


    As shown, in a PAC-XII merger, Oklahoma would annually face the highest amount of programs within the divisional alignment, against former crowned national championship teams, as recognized by the Associated Press...

    Just another of many reasons that a merger between both the PAC & XII would lead to exciting regional rivalries being continued of current league members & while also establishing new as well...

    That aligns well for the most flexibility for the members of the XII & PAC to have multiple bidders for their product for streaming content that will be in demand...

  33. #4683
    Originally Posted by kopp0e View Post

    That aligns well for the most flexibility for the members of the XII & PAC to have multiple bidders for their product for streaming content that will be in demand...
    OU and PAC 12 are sitting in a good position. I can't envision what internet speeds will be like in 2034. Fortunately for OU and PAC 12, they don't have an anchor hanging around their waist. With technology and viewing habits changing rapidly, only a fool would have signed an agreement that extended through 2034. The toothpick crowd thought they had hoodwinked everyone when that deal was signed.
    The following users like this post: SnowyRangeSooner


  34. #4684
    Well, according to that article Rutgers is about to lose what little value it supposedly had. The NYC metro will be pleased to be freed from the B1G tax shackle forced upon it against its will.

  35. #4685
    Y'all iron out the conference, pod partners, and date yet? If this thread wasnt broken up it would be 500-600 pages by now. I would have thought we'd have some solid info by now.

  36. #4686
    Originally Posted by JRsec* View Post
    Well that's the typical youngster for you. So filled with anger at the status quo and so bereft of analytical skills that they rush to schadenfreude after reading a report that actually announces the demise of the very thing they think they are defending.

    All that piece stated is what we've been talking about for 2 years now, content will drive the bus for paydays moving forward. That's why the SEC and Big 10 will be looking to add brands, and why brands (like Texas and Oklahoma) will be seeking to align themselves with (drum roll please) "other brands." And since the SEC and Big 10 already have the most viewers then there's your concentration points because the people watching those two conferences are from regions who don't feel taxed by ESPN for presenting the product they desire to see, and represent the regions who will purchase the viewing privileges for those games when the market model subscription fee dies.

    It's the truly pathetic viewership of the PAC and ACC that will only further doom them when the subscription fee pay model dies. To hear a PAC fan arguing for the death of subscription fees and giddy over the day when their pay will be derived by actual viewers is ultimately amusing to me. It's like a guy soaked in gasoline begging for a match. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will destroy athletics in the PAC as fast as streaming will. If they think they don't make enough now, wait until they actually get paid by the number of viewers.

    You are correct that it will force more consolidation. Instead of a P5 of 65 schools, or a P4 of 64, we will probably be looking at least at a P3 of 60 total schools, but more likely a P2 of 48.

    And sadly for our West Coast friend the primary members of the Big 10 and SEC will still be viable, and will remain the best paid schools. But then the logic displayed by the most recent graduates of our finest public schools leaves me troubled yet again for the future of our children. In the sarcastic words of Voltaire, "And this in the best of all possible worlds."
    You definitely have an axe to grind with the PAC, that is abvious. And offer a view point of someone likely over 60 who thinks they have the future of tech and television all figured out in the twilight of their life. Amusing to watch. But doubtful that anyone over 60 really has a clue what's going to be going on in 30 years unless they are listening to people in their 20's, which you obviously don't think much of.

    So some old "get off my lawn" type from Alabama knows more about the future than tech companies and millenials. I suspect you know as much about the future as miss cleo. How old are you?

  37. #4687
    Originally Posted by Nirvana Norman View Post
    Y'all iron out the conference, pod partners, and date yet? If this thread wasnt broken up it would be 500-600 pages by now. I would have thought we'd have some solid info by now.
    Quality content = $

    AFL – Amazon Football League

    Prime Div.

    tOSU, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, ND and Texas

    Echo Div.

    OU, aTm, ASU, USC, Stanford and Washington

  38. #4688
    Originally Posted by SnowyRangeSooner View Post
    You definitely have an axe to grind with the PAC, that is abvious. And offer a view point of someone likely over 60 who thinks they have the future of tech and television all figured out in the twilight of their life. Amusing to watch. But doubtful that anyone over 60 really has a clue what's going to be going on in 30 years unless they are listening to people in their 20's, which you obviously don't think much of.

    So some old "get off my lawn" type from Alabama knows more about the future than tech companies and millenials. I suspect you know as much about the future as miss cleo. How old are you?
    Old enough to know how ill equipped the millennials are to face correction, display interpersonal skills, follow instruction, and to have watched many of them try to fake their way through procedures the concept of which they never grasped. And old enough to have witnessed fatalities in health care situations due their abysmal communication skills and inability to read.

    Nothing is going to save the bacon for a product that has no audience, nothing. The buying and selling of programming is no different than the buying and selling of anything else. Millennials as a whole are much less likely to even watch organized sports play because they are much less likely to have ever played organized sports.

    If you PAC pushers were telling me that the market for football and basketball was dying out with Boomers and X'ers then you would find me in agreement. But that's not what you are arguing. You are arguing that somehow a new technology for the delivery of games to a variety of devices is going to give the PAC a huge leg up on everyone else and Jett is saying that exiting contracts with ESPN will be hampering the SEC and ACC. They won't. ESPN will be marketing the product on the same devices as Amazon or any other carrier.

    The PAC trails everyone but the ACC, and significantly trails them, because they don't have an demand for their product. Means of delivery isn't going to help that issue. If your public was interested they would have supported you already. They haven't and there is no indication that they will when your product is streamed.

    All of the games will be available on virtually all of the delivery platforms. I'm certainly not challenging the technology, but you are sure typical of your age group because your reading comprehension is piss poor. I didn't knock the delivery system, I knocked the audience.

    The PAC has a huge potential market, but you don't have much of an audience. If you can get the Chinese that will help, but the out of country rates are a fraction of those within the U.S. Market. So it's still not going to pay the bills. The SECN is currently available in 21 Mexican cities, but we get pennies on the rate we get inside the U.S..

    And my point stands, You know, the one you aren't engaging. You don't have a loyal clientele for the PAC product. You get some help from the subscription fee model of pay. When you are more directly paid for actual viewers there is no guarantee you are going to make then what you are even making now.

    The Big 10 and SEC will not be as adversely affected as the PAC and ACC. Why? Because our audience participation ratios are the highest (SEC) and second highest (Big 10) in the college sports broadcasting world. We'll get the ratings and therefore will carry a higher rate. Will that be as well as we have done under the subscription fee model? Maybe, maybe not. But what is not in doubt is the fact that our alums and fans will still tune in to watch, and on a plethora of devices.

    What is equally sure however is that Millennials will not watch, on any device, in the same % as the generations that preceded them.

    So the Millennials can be the most tech savvy generation in American history, but if they aren't as interested in college sports as their fathers and grandfathers, it doesn't make a hoots worth of difference how the PAC, or any other conference markets to them. And since the geezers, like me, don't give a rat's ass for watching a game on a smart phone, or computer, or any other device without a large screen, you can talk about the tech applications all that you want to, but none of it changes the fact that the PAC can't, hasn't, and probably won't draw any better numbers no matter how many platforms the product is offered upon.

    So let me spell this out for the TLDR I learned to text with my thumbs crowd. The issue isn't technology. The issue is consumers. That's why none of this B.S. is going to save the PAC. You have to have an audience willing to buy your product. And the PAC doesn't!

    And even if all of the technology changes, and it probably will, the SEC and Big 10 will still be on top because we both have the audience and the demand for the product.

    So I never claimed to know all there was to know about the technology, but I spent the better part of lifetime knowing about consumers, their demands, product, product placement, marketing, and revenue. And that was in my first lifetime before I spent another 20 plus years in non profit work where demographic trends, social issues, and politics and organizing was involved.

    So the two factors that don't really change won't be affected by these changes either. You will be rewarded if you supply a quality product that meets a demand. If either of those are missing (quality product or demand) then you have nothing. Affordability enters into to it as it affects demand. But viewing is much cheaper than attending events. So right now this isn't as important as it might well be in a few decades. When viewing demand goes down, so will ticket prices. But right now in the SEC and Big 10 that's not an immediate issue. But both are already issues in the PAC and ACC where the donations and ticket pricing aren't up to Big 10 and SEC levels and where the viewing demand and attendance stink.

    Now would you care to explain to me again just how technology is going to overcome lousy demand and terrible attendance?
    3 users like JRsec*'s post: MrQster, OU48A, RocketCitySooner


  39. #4689
    Originally Posted by JRsec* View Post
    Old enough to know how ill equipped the millennials are to face correction, display interpersonal skills, follow instruction, and to have watched many of them try to fake their way through procedures the concept of which they never grasped. And old enough to have witnessed fatalities in health care situations due their abysmal communication skills and inability to read.
    Originally Posted by JRsec* View Post
    You're 75 years and another continent away from your niche Camel. Most of your posts remind me of what the German military officers joked about in '44 and '45. Der Fuhrer's Wunderwaffe!
    So a guy who compared me to **** military officers (b/c I pointed out that Big Tech might be a major player in the next set of media rights deals) is now giving a lecture on communication skills? Maybe Boomers should consider how Boomers have coarsened our public discourse.

    The argument about Tech and Live Sports is that if multiple Big Tech companies enter the marketplace, they're going to bid up the price of somewhat scarce inventory. Why is it scarce? Because the SEC and ACC have so much inventory tied up until the 2030s with Disney. So if there's a bidding war for college football inventory, the SEC and ACC are going to be left out to some degree because a lot of your inventory is already spoken for. You won't reap the potential reward of having your inventory available in the right window of time.

    You're doubting the demand. That's fair. But you're overselling the issue. Texas vs. Texas Tech had 3.6M viewers. The Apple Cup had 2.3M viewers. USC-UCLA had 4M+ viewers. The first TCU-OU game had 2.96M viewers. Does that stack up with the very best numbers from the SEC? Obviously not. Is it a substantial audience? Absolutely yes. If there's a demand for live sports content by tech companies (because 3M people streaming anything live is a LOT of viewers), looking to differentiate themselves from other streaming platforms, and if that western U.S. inventory is just about the only inventory available, then demand meets scarce supply and bids the price of that Western U.S. inventory up. You can be correct that the SEC's inventory is more valuable in theory and still see timing work out in favor of the PAC and B12. The good news for the SEC is that the CBS Tier 1 stuff will be on the market and probably bid way up by these same dynamics. And eventually you'll be paid well for all of your inventory in the 2030s because it's arguably the best inventory.

    In the alternative, if Amazon decides they don't need live sports, if Netflix decides the same, and if a few other streaming platforms have already been driven out of business by the time these deals get negotiated, then maybe the PAC and B12 end up big losers in this whole thing. Both conferences could find themselves on the wrong side of a sports rights bubble burst. And the SEC in particular will look wise for locking in with Disney when they did. At this point in time, most of the evidence is pointing toward Tech wanting a bigger presence in sports. But 3-5 years is plenty of time for that dynamic to change.

  40. #4690
    Originally Posted by Camel at Sea View Post
    So a guy who compared me to **** military officers (b/c I pointed out that Big Tech might be a major player in the next set of media rights deals) is now giving a lecture on communication skills? Maybe Boomers should consider how Boomers have coarsened our public discourse.

    The argument about Tech and Live Sports is that if multiple Big Tech companies enter the marketplace, they're going to bid up the price of somewhat scarce inventory. Why is it scarce? Because the SEC and ACC have so much inventory tied up until the 2030s with Disney. So if there's a bidding war for college football inventory, the SEC and ACC are going to be left out to some degree because a lot of your inventory is already spoken for. You won't reap the potential reward of having your inventory available in the right window of time.

    You're doubting the demand. That's fair. But you're overselling the issue. Texas vs. Texas Tech had 3.6M viewers. The Apple Cup had 2.3M viewers. USC-UCLA had 4M+ viewers. The first TCU-OU game had 2.96M viewers. Does that stack up with the very best numbers from the SEC? Obviously not. Is it a substantial audience? Absolutely yes. If there's a demand for live sports content by tech companies (because 3M people streaming anything live is a LOT of viewers), looking to differentiate themselves from other streaming platforms, and if that western U.S. inventory is just about the only inventory available, then demand meets scarce supply and bids the price of that Western U.S. inventory up. You can be correct that the SEC's inventory is more valuable in theory and still see timing work out in favor of the PAC and B12. The good news for the SEC is that the CBS Tier 1 stuff will be on the market and probably bid way up by these same dynamics. And eventually you'll be paid well for all of your inventory in the 2030s because it's arguably the best inventory.

    In the alternative, if Amazon decides they don't need live sports, if Netflix decides the same, and if a few other streaming platforms have already been driven out of business by the time these deals get negotiated, then maybe the PAC and B12 end up big losers in this whole thing. Both conferences could find themselves on the wrong side of a sports rights bubble burst. And the SEC in particular will look wise for locking in with Disney when they did. At this point in time, most of the evidence is pointing toward Tech wanting a bigger presence in sports. But 3-5 years is plenty of time for that dynamic to change.
    The CBS deal will be bid out around 2023 for 2024-5. It's essentially the same timeline. We have a renegotation clause should we make additions. I'm pretty sure the ACC has one as well. The timeline issue is essentially non-existent from the perspective of missing out on anything. The SEC T1 as you pointed out is up and essentially within the same window as PAC / Big 12 / & B1G rights. If either the SEC or ACC, or both make additions the T2 and T3 will be reset.

    It is true that the inventory in the East is essentially locked down. I look for Disney to make the same push on the Big 12 between now and 2023.

    And Camel there is another hand here that is being overplayed. The Tech companies may or may not want sports, but even if they do they want sports that draw and in the PAC outside of USC there isn't much. Add Texas and Oklahoma to the PAC and you still can't count two handfuls of key games with broad appeal. The Tech companies would have money better spent to go after the NFL, NBA, and MLB than to bid heavy on a product that doesn't even sell that well in their own footprint. Hence, "Wunderwaffe!"

    You see there won't be a shortage of games. There would be a shortage of games that Amazon could acquire. But those games will be up against the SEC, ACC and likely a % of the B1G games which will all be on ESPN or streaming through ESPN apps. The competition for viewers would play out about as well for Amazon as they have done for FOX. The only issue is that people could find FOX on their tube. Many aren't going to go to the trouble of streaming a game. And one of my points, a demographic one, was that millennials don't watch sports as avidly so I doubt they drive the interest in streaming.

    There will be no more and no less product out there. It's just that some of it might be in different hands. But, if it is it will be competing head to head with the content that ESPN is offering. So I look for an Amazon foray into sports to go as swimmingly as FOX's did. Only now, FOX will be showing the Big 10 and leasing what they need from ESPN.

    I do think content values might well go up, but if they do it will be across the board, only this time Amazon will be trying to crack their way in against ESPN and an acquiescent FOX. Amazon has plenty of capital. But what they won't have is compelling product.

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