Its what is best for OU football .......... on the field.Originally Posted by lash
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Its what is best for OU football .......... on the field.
If Missouri stays....I'm happy with TCU replacing A&M. It's a down grade sure, but not huge. A&M is an "odd" school. After that I would like to get back to 12 teams as that is perceived to be big boy conference.
And that would be different....how?
You really think Baylor is going to stay ranked? We are losing 2 of the better teams this year in A&M and Missouri. You really think Baylor and KSU will stay ranked that long? The conference is basically 2 teams right now in OU and Texas.
Given the options, yes it is.
We've got a long way to go to get to 13,000...
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Oh christ.
You think the Bottom Feeders are going to be able to MAINTAIN this level of play? This year is an aberration.
And yes, this conference most certainly is better off at 9 teams with 1 top tier team and the entire middle gone. Yeah. Realist my ****, Sunshine Pumper.
We are getting rid of a school that eats list and squeezes thier own nuts to the point of pain.
Ball State put up a better game than A&M has on Owen Field. A&M comes to Norman and folds up like a cheap suit. They can only play football in that wierd **** stadium down there.
Again..............TCU's all-time record against teams currently in the Big 12 is 158-224-24.
You are banking on OSU and KSU being around the top 25 for the long term? History would beg to differ. Baylor? They haven't beaten OU in 20 tries!
A&M has 1 bowl win during the Big 12 era.
Galleryfurniture.com Bowl
Their avg. margin of defeat in Norman during the Stoops Era is.......38 points.
How can we ever live w/out them?
quality wins in november and december are worth a hell of a lot more than a quality win in september. your banking on okie state being a worthy season ending game at year end and thats just not going to happen long term.
in the eyes of the nation our season will be over by the third week in october. expect ou to have a very difficult time recovering from a loss to texas in the future where as years past we have had end of season games with nebraska or a ccg.
make no mistake, this will change the map to the national championship. contrary to a lot of the thinking around here and at the shaggy, our path to the championship just got a lot harder.
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Let me ask you this, What do you think we should do in this situation? Bail out to SEC, Pac-14, Big 10+4, go independent?
There's no guarantee TCU would provide quality competition in the long haul. They benefitted from feasting off of the Mountain West for a decade, if Baylor had that schedule, the Bears would have ripped off some 10 win seasons eventually. In the Big 12, TCU will start losing to OU and UT every year, which puts them at a floor of 2 losses, plus road games against OSU, KSU, maybe Mizzou, Tech, and whomever else is added. Heck, they just lost to Baylor. We're now talking about a program that will do no better than 9-3, which would be a dramatic high point, but in reality would settle in at a ho hum nationally irrelevant 7-5 record.
One of the problems of adding schools like TCU, Cincinatti, Louisville, is that THEY know they can't compete on a consistent basis in a conference with UT, OU, and they are staring at a minimum of 2 conference losses a year, with 3-4 losses not unrealistic outcome. Which means they need to win out their non-conference schedule in order to stay in the running for a 10 win season, an 8 win season, heck, a bowl eligible season. Look at Texas Tech--they haven't played a BCS program out of conference since 2003, when they went on the road and beat Eli Manning's Ole Miss team. Why? Because they needed those 4 wins OOC to offset a 3-5 conference record. Or make a 6-2 conference record an "on paper" impressive 10 win season.
All these additions are like adding more Texas Techs. Louisville, Cincinatti, sure they could play OU OOC back in 1999 or 2008 when they were in the CUSA or Big East respectively, but when they have to play OU in order to win a conference title? Hello schedule of Ball St, Miami of Ohio, Eastern Carolina, and North Texas. West Virginia might retain a nationally respectable game or two, but everyone else? Craptastic scheduling, so they can get 3 or 4 easy victories (however many non-conference games exist in the new Big 12) so they can survive the OU and UT beat downs.
You can't say that about teams like Nebraska, or even CU and A&M. Even though NU stunk under Callahan, they had the confidence to schedule USC in 06 and 07, because deep down, that program believes that it could beat USC AND win the Big 12. Colorado played terrific out of conference schedules--they lost almost all those games, but they were great schedules, because they thought they could pull it off. A&M, as awful as their bowl record was, still tried to play Clemson, Va Tech, Arkansas OOC the past ten years. The teams that played the best nonconference schedules in the Big 12: OU, UT, NU, A&M, and CU. 3/5s of that lineup is gone. Texas Tech and the old KSU scheduling method will be the norm for 80% of the conference. And, the perception of the conference will continue to dwindle...
TCU ain't replacing its non-conference game with OU next year with a matchup against Auburn or Stanford. More likely Alabama-Birmingham or San Diego St.
hah !!
So now you raise the bar.
In fact, you raise it higher than CU, NU, and A&M can reach.
If this was 1996 to 1998, I might agree with you, but I got a whole decade that tells me that those schools are name only, they have no punch.
They can not maintain success either.
He thinks Oklahoma and Hawaii should be in the same conference.
Really.
I don't know , its gonna be tough to keep our SOS up without A&M.
I know. It might just be the end of OU football if we don't have the awesome power of A&M around us.
Hey, THE, wanna watch me get Lash riled up?
Yes.
Anybody who cares to see can tell that the only reason this conference exists is so ESPN can swing it's **** around and try out the LHN. We're here so UT has someone to play. We have traded in all of our tradition and reputation so ESPN and UT can make money with their new toy.
This is not getting away from Texas, or "WE GOTTA PLAY THE BEST" SEC mouthbreathing nonsense. This is about being in a conference that you can feel proud about winning, that it's an accomplishment. This... thing we have now is nothing. We win the 2nd week in October, and the season is over. Nobody nationally gives a **** any more, and we go to the ****ing Fiesta! Bowl every ****ing year to play another unworthy school from the Big East. Bag on A&M or Colorado all you want, but it meant something to beat Nebraska, even when they were down. Going to College Station close to the end of the year was always riveting. You can't replace teams with a national brand, even that brand is undeserved in A&M's case with pieces of **** like TCU.
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What ? This year ?? Well, that remains to be seen.
But damn, when was the last time CU was ranked .
I tell ya this, I don't think OU's visit to Waco is gonna be nearly as easy as past year's games there, not nearly as easy.
I don't know if it is Heisman Park worthy. Quanity vs. Quality. I do believe "THE" was the MVP of that thread though.
Threads above ~250 pages tend to do bad things to vbulletin's page sync. Should it be put in Heisman Park though? Wouldn't that be like mercy killing your dog then having it stuffed?
Oklahoma State is arguably the 3rd best program in the conference right now. They have 3 wins over OU and Texas since 2001. I think A&M and Tech have the most wins with like 4. But neither are as good as OSU right now. Does anyone really think that TCU will come in and in a 10 year period win more than a couple games against OU and Texas and be as good as Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Missouri, Tech have been in some years? TCU is maybe a little better than Baylor in football. They'll win 6-7 games a year, that's really about it. Maybe enough to go to smaller tier bowls. They don't recruit the talent OU, OSU, Texas does. They basically get the guys Tech is recruiting.
I'M TIRED OF THIS BULL ****! I'M NOT GOING TO DONATE TO OU ANY MORE. I'M GOING TO TAKE MY MONEY TO NASCAR!!!!!!
Everyone thought that last year too. Baylor doesn't play defense. We'll kill them, I'm honestly more worried about KSU because they play defense.
Oh please, get over the damn LHN.
That's so much being made over nothing.
Joe was talking about Sooner TV today.. so there is that
We signed away our rights for 6 years today too. This really, really sux.
Yeah, 300 million dollars is nothing. It just bought the UT Athletic dept. and is currently controlling realignment right now. Totally not big deal.
Get over your love for humping dead conferences.
The round robin 10 team league will harm the conferences ability to prop up 10 win caliber teams that a 12+ team league avoids.
If OU goes 12-0, which we hope they do, that means OSU's ceiling is 11-1. If OSU goes 11-1, that means UT's ceiling is 10-2. If UT's ceiling is 10-2, that means that KSU's ceiling is 9-3. If KSU goes 9-3, that means Baylor's ceiling is 8-4. Baylor won't be ranked at this point. KSU might not be either. If Baylor goes 8-4, that makes Texas Tech's ceiling 7-5. If Tech is 7-5, that makes A&M's ceiling 5-7. If A&M goes 5-7, that makes Mizzou 4-8...
Now, it won't be so neat and clean as that, but the point is, if you change any of those, you're taking from something else. Either OU loses a game, which we hate and dread, or OSU loses a game to KSU so KSU has an extra win, but at any rate...it's zero sum. In a league where not-everyone-plays-each-other, you have some flexibility in record outcomes, and you can have more teams with a high winning % at the end of the year for the benefit of the computers. And I intentionally showed the most favorable scenario for the future Big 12, ****uming the two SEC defectors and out of conference losers Mizzou and A&M do the worst in the Big 12 this year. What if they don't go 5-7, 4-8? What if A&M goes 8-4 or 9-3? Well, that hurts Baylor, KSU, UT's records, and stunts their momentum going into next year. What if Mizzou goes 8-4, 9-3, 10-2? Same thing.
A 10 team league is garbage in a league with mediocre programs and only 3 non-conference games per program to offset the perception, and will further diminish the perception of the Big 12 in the long run. A 10 team league is the worst of all possible scenarios.
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NYTimes is saying Big 12 is staying at 10. If Missouri leaves they will look at Louisville first. (and I would ****ume WVU 2nd) Why 10? looks like there are no #11 and #12 that add enough TV dollars to justify the split.
Couple of reporters are saying BYU is no longer on the Big12's list of candidates (no one is sure why exactly).
Probably because they want no part of this cluster****.
Good on them.
Missouri abstained on the tv rights conference call, or may not have even been on it.
If we sign that thing we are officially ****ing stupid and David Boren and Joe C. should be removed. Hell, Joe even wants to stay at 10 the way Dodds tells him to.
This makes me sick. TCU....they're on their way down again. It will be three or four years before they reach true respectability again, if they are lucky. They lost to Baylor and SMU for crying out loud! This year! As soon as Griffin is gone from Baylor, they'll be falliing to 4 and 7 again.
This is just really, really disgusting. A complete misplay on Boren's part. It's been rumored he wants to retire over the last year. Fine with me if this deal goes through like it looks like it will.
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2 +2 Carl Edwards 2122 Leader 29 2 1 14 20 7,007,550
3 -2 Tony Stewart 2113 -9 29 0 2 5 13 4,873,990
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11 -- Ryan Newman 2081 -41 29 3 1 8 14 4,409,450
12 -- Denny Hamlin 2054 -68 29 0 1 4 10 4,481,490
Boren and Joe C really ****ed this up! I'm not shocked one bit. But glad it may be finally over.
Byrk!
The granting of rights is an enormous concession from TX --- not everyone else. It's what Nebraska wanted....and when it didn't happen, it's why Nebraska left.
It's been their sacred baby ever since OU/UGA took out the NCAA monopoly.
It's a 1-man-1vote system now.
Completely disagree with those who say we've screwed this up.
We've got LHN concessions, grant of rights concessions (read: stability), TCU instead of BYU (read: recruiting) and we're working on our own T3 deal.
OU is getting what it wants so far.
The Profit Returns!
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I've never wanted BYU.
There are some programs, who could take Big 12 membership and improve their play on the field, I do not think BYU is one of them. They have very limited potential to be any better than they are now.
I've no idea what Louisville's football recrootin base is, or how they could expand or improve their recrootin. I would like to know more about that. Joining the Big 12 does not really help them in Texas , the way it did the Big 12 North teams.
Well The... can you put together the new Big 12 logo with TCU in it. So I can be depressed for the next 6 yrs or so.
Boren has gotten everything he wanted.
All of those demands he made ( and was roundly ridiculed for making those demands ) are now in his pocket.
I can't believe people are seriously projecting TCU's success in the Mountain West onto how it will perform in a conference playing UT and OU every year. If A&M was in the Mountain West, they would have ripped off an undefeated season here or there the past decade, too. Francione would be a genius. ****, he brought TCU out of the dumpster fire it was in during the mid 90s and we saw how well he could perform at A&M, why think Gary Patterson would do any better? Particularly without the benefit of an 80k size stadium? TCU will have no home field advantage in Ft. Worth, and they'll go back to 7-5, all the while playing a **** non-conference schedule that does nothing for the prestige of the conference or the BCS rankings.
Oh yeah....and forgot Danny Dan.
That too.
Nobody will hear you, there is too much **** ****ring going on
Yep.
And I got a hunch that Pinkel and Deaton, are getting everything they want , also.
But that remains to be seen.
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Utah (MWC member) absolutely destroyed Fran's A&M team.
A&M lost to Arkansas State at Kyle Field. A Sunbelt program.
The Aggies wouldn't have been dominating anywhere.
Local KC media pushing agenda again...Keitzman is pathetic. He's hated UT since the B12 began but now he's their biggest fan.
His facts:
-B12 is in fact MORE stable than the SEC with TCU and media rights agreement
-B12 schools will actually make more money than SEC schools (he estimates B12 payouts based on some projection but conveniently only quotes SEC based on what they paid last year)
The sad part is that he gets away with it...nobody calling him out just spewing garbage to try and derail the move. Pathetic.
A media rights agreement only shows how unstable you are. The SEC has no buy out for their conference. Any team can leave when it wants.
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