More crap that won't happen.Originally Posted by Camel at Sea
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More crap that won't happen.
I think the biggest selling point the Big 12 had over the Big 10 and ACC was it's potential reach geographically. If the Big 10 targeted GT, and put ND in a division with them, I don't think Notre Dame is a fight the Big 12 will win. ND would get to continue playing a national schedule, it would keep its Big 10 rivalries and its PAC rivalries (through the B1G/PAC scheduling alliance). That's the best possible outcome for them. And that league would make the most money and be the best academic conference. And if the timetable on that rumor is accurate, this would happen at roughly the same time that ND's NBC deal ends.
The B1G would look like this:
Osborne: Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota
Bo: Michigan, MSU, Illinois, Northwestern
Hayes: Ohio State, PSU, Indiana, Purdue
Rockne: Notre Dame, Rutgers, Maryland, and Georgia Tech
That would probably cause UNC and Duke, or UVA and VaTech to jump as a pair into the SEC. I'll guess UNC and Duke would be the SEC's preferred duo. So the SEC would round out like this:
East: UF, UGA, UNC, Duke
Central: Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, MSU
North: UK, UT, USC, Vandy
West: LSU, A&M, Arky, Mizzou
Which means (****uming that Miami is about to get an NCAA penalty of near nuclear proportion dropped on them) that the Big 12 would probably look like this:
East: FSU, UVA, Clemson, NCState
North: VaTech, WVU, Louisville, ISU
Plains: OU, OSU, KU, KSU
Texas: UT, TTU, BU, TCU
I agree on the GT to the B1G taking the 'regional' issues out of the Big 10 regarding Notre Dame. I'd be curious if the Big 10 wants Notre Dame bad enough to dip so far out of their region for a team. GT is an odd fit for the Big 10. Also curious about the CIC issue from the Notre Dame side.
But yeah, purely from a Notre Dame football angle, that's the most ideal scenario.
For what that leaves the Big 12, I like it. Have to say I'm curious if Cuse or Pitt is a better get than Louisville. I also think that if the ACC is dying, schools that are thought of as inseparable are going to be possible to separate if it's apparent that's how it has to be. Legislators are going to have to accept saving one school is better than letting both die together.
Everything...and I mean EVERYTHING I've read, is that GT, VA (plus Va Tech), Duke, NC with their little brother NCstate, are a core tied to each other till death. They don't want any part of the SEC trailer trash. They aren't football schools (well Va Tech is and so is NCstate, but both will be told to sit down and shut up by their big brothers)
At what point do those schools blink? The B1G with their CiC is always tempting, and get the pick of the litter.
I'd be surprised if that core gets broken up. GT, maybe. The NC schools and Virginia? Doubt it.
We may get to see. If all the other revenue generating schools start bolting, that core can split and do what's best for them and make a good deal more money than they get now or they can sit together... and rot. :\
I will say add that I would be shocked if any school turns down a Big 10 invite due to the CIC (except ND of course), and that includes GT. They'd be dumb to say no if the Big 10 actually does offer.
I think the ACC's action of expanding to 14 indicates that they (the member institutions) are in it for the long haul and will do what they can to stay together, although since the expansion was driven by market and basketball, a couple of the football schools might leave. But a full-scale break-up? I don't see that happening, but we'll see. All I know is, the Big 12 is at its weakest and it needs to expand or split up completely. This middle ground **** is not going to work in the long term.
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The grant of rights agreement means that the Big 12 won't break up. Chuck Neinas has said that the Big 12's TV partners will request that the grant of rights be extended through the end of the next Tier 1 agreement, when that is reached, which means that the Big 12 can't be poached for probably another 15 years, at least.
The ACC might be vulnerable to a Big 12 raid, if the TV money is right. It would absolutely be vulnerable to a Big 10 raid. Both Georgia Tech and Maryland would have a very hard time turning down a Big 10 invite. It's likely, in my opinion, that a Big 10 raid of the ACC will lead to a Big 12 raid. And the SEC would try to get involved if that happened, too.
VaTech is tied to the ACC for as long as UVA is a member. NCState is tied to the ACC because the same governing body runs it, as runs UNC. Duke is probably also tied to UNC b/c it's value is highest when paired with UNC.
It would be interesting to see what the core of that league would do if it lost GaTech, Maryland, FSU, Clemson, and Miami. The league would probably survive and be okay after that, if nobody jumped to the SEC at that point. But would UVA and/or VaTech be able to say no if invited as a pair? And if it looked like they were going to say yes, would UNC and Duke jump in front of them? If one of those two pairs jumped, the rest of the ACC would fall. The SEC would like to split the baby in both North Carolina and Virginia, but I don't see how they could. East Carolina might be a suitable substitute for NC State if they could pry away VaTech.
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Hello, I have been reading(lurking) this thread for months and I have too finally chime in. Great thread by the way,I remember the original one and never thought it would be kept alive so long.
Anyway, if we are going to join a conference in all sports it will be the ACC. In 1999 we rejected the Big Ten and one of the key statements on why was said by our Former President of the University Father Malloy,"These differences in identity between Notre Dame and the member institutions of the Big Ten are essential, not incidental," Father Malloy said. "They are not qualities that are amenable to change, nor would we change them. Notre Dame always will be Catholic and always will be private. Even in terms of size, we will not become appreciably larger. Given these realities, we have had to ask ourselves the fundamental question, does this core identity of Notre Dame as Catholic, private, and independent seem a match for an ****ociation of universities--even a splendid ****ociation of great universities--that are uniformly secular, predominantly state institutions and with a long heritage of conference affiliation" Notre Dame would be one of only two private universities . . . and the only university with a religious affiliation." Notre Dame also, he said, would be by far the smallest of the affiliated institutions.
The Catholic character of Notre Dame, Father Malloy said, " . . . gives a unique perspective to our educational mission and permeates our campus culture. Our most basic decisions concerning student life, our faculty, our core curriculum, even the fields of scholarship and research in which we aspire to make a significant contribution, all reflect the fact that we are a Catholic university."
With that statement and the fact the Notre Dame and the Big ten have had a very rocky relationship over the last hundred yrs or so it is a unlikely match. The only thing we truly share with the Big Ten is geography.
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Thanks for chiming in, I was hoping a ND guy would do so. I have to ask, do you think ND would still prefer the ACC if the Big 12, Big 10, and the SEC were to succefully raid the ACC such as has been discussed in this thread? I think that ND joined the ACC before any of that happened, I think it would stop it. If it starts to happen before ND joins though...
Here is what I predict, ND will wait till the last second to jump to appease the vocal independent or bust crowd. ND could secure the ACC and make it non-raid able but we won't till all other options for independence are closed.. Now that opens the door for other conference to pick apart the ACC because of our stance. The alumni are dead-set against the Big Ten but also against jumping too soon into the ACC, Big 12 etc... So if the ACC gets picked apart than what do we do if we have to join a conference? Big 10? Not likely at this point, Big 12? More likely if said events happen. To answer your question we would not join the ACC if FSU,Clemson VT left...
We could have saved the Big East 10 yrs ago or so but we didn't. So I see a possibility it could play out this way again(W/ACC). I love the idea of independence but it just is getting less and less practical as time goes on.
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Totally of topic, but where is a good place to stay near the Campus for the game?
www.travelocity.com
thanks.. Was looking for inside info on a good place.
sadly there is no hotels within "walking" distance of campus. So, that opens up several. There are hotels up and down i-25. The largest hotel in Norman is the Embassy Suites (book early). A fun one is Sooner Legends (all the rooms are in a theme of a Sooner from the past like the Bozworth room). Or for a change of pace Riverwind Casino. Best bang for buck on a weekend, but it's away from most everything is http://cc.nced.com/
Thank you, Riverwind it is then.
The strong anti-Big10 sentiment is interesting to hear. I actually think Notre Dame's option will be The Big East/ACC merged-leftover neu ACC or the Big 12 if the Big 10 is not an option. The Big 12 could have 2 religious institutions (3 if you count TCU...but it's not relgious anymore besides the name) in BYU and Baylor. The Big 12 has the mutual love affair between Notre Dame and Texas from a couple of years ago when each side basically said "I wish I had what YOU have!"
The key will be how many schools are taken from the ACC for the other conferences, and how viable will the conference be? If the B1G starts the raiding, they could get the Virginia schools or more.
The big 12 is our most interesting option. The Admin does not want to become regional so that is a plus for the Big 12(really hurts the Big Ten, Malloy mentioned in a letter to alums). I am just really curious to see what the playoff plan is. If it conference champions only than we have no choice. Than the dominoes may start to fall even more. If we get the Notre Dame exception than what about scheduling for us? Will teams be willing to schedule a game against us to the same degree as before? A lot of unknowns remain to be answered.
The Texas and ND love affair is seemingly just growing because our admins talk a lot(according to nd insiders).
The thing about Riverwind is you won't get the feel of being in Norman at all. Norman is nice (it actually is...don't listen to the Texas people, they don't know....they never come here) but it's not big. It's a comfortable and inviting place. The campus area is great. Even though Riverwind is right across the river, it feels like a completely different place altogether.
I'd stay in one of the hotels on Ed Noble Blvd., the access road that runs parallel to I-35, in between Lindsey and Main. They're basically just your avg. chains, but they're nice enough and it will keep you near all the restaurants and keep you close to campus (5 min. cab ride) and Campus Corner. If you're still wanting the casino experience, it's still a 3-4 min. cab trip from there to Riverwind too.
If being close to the stadium is important you may also consider renting an rv and staying at 'Sooner Village' (which is the basketball arena parking lot). It's a long walk but walkable for sure (done it myself) and there are shuttles too from there. I've done it several times in my own RV and it amounts to weekend of tailgating.
Downtown OKC. I recommend the Skirvin or Colcorde.
There is nothing but crap hotels in Norman, and it's a short jaunt from Downtown.
Riverwind is a good place to pick up hookers, if that's your bag.
my question for a ND fan, would be how excited would ND be to play a conference schedule? Sure playing OU and Texas sounds neato. But the reality will be that won't happen every year. Instead a conference schedule means playing K-state, Iowa State, just as much (depending on the divisions or the pods) as well as the more premiere schools. I mean who gets fired up to go to Lubbock, TX?
Well something I have learned about Texas fans (few have come to our boards) is they world revolves around Texas. I thought ND fans came off as pompous(which I know can be true), then I saw Texas fans. Thanks for the information.
I don't think my wife would like that.
I don't see any reason why ND has to join the B12 or any other conference --- as long as the next BCS/playoff structure doesn't force your hand.
The B12 and ND could actually use one another for each of our purposes. We wouldn't need you to join for football, or even Olympic sports.
We want another historical heavyweight on our schedule on an annual basis. We lost Nebraska and we want another prestigious rival. Texas wants you because Texas wants money, and they want to upstage their little brother.
The B12 and ND should just agree to X-number of football games per year for a certain period of time. Play UT/OU annually or rotate between us and mix in a few other schools on a rotation. It would increase both the B12's next TV contract and ND's as well --- which both end at the same time, btw. Keeps the B12 visible and lets our big dogs eat --- keep ND independent by making your scheduling easier while keeping the ACC from thinking they have you cornered.
Then here you go:
The Skirvin
The Colcord
15 minutes away from the OU campus, plus you'll be walking distance to Bricktown, our Premiere Restraunt/Booze/Tourist Trap locale.
Hey-OH!
My plan for an B12-ND alliance would make ND's schedule look something like:
On a 4-year outlook....
UT -- @UT -- OU -- @ OU
@x -- x --- @x --- x
etc.
etc.
or:
UT --- @OU -- @UT -- OU
@x -- x --- @x --- x
etc.
etc.
It would basically look more like the B1G-PAC alliance than any membership or quasi-membership models.
That would be ideal for the fan base as whole it just depends on Playoff structure. I would love to replace Michigan with OU or Texas.
Awesome. Wife wouldn't have fun at the Casino anyway.... Do you think it will be a night game? We are debating this on our boards and ****ume it will be.
I knew we had fans there!!! LOL, that is what happens after our Leprechaun retires.I think you can even take the train from downtown OKC to downtown Norman.
This is how I see that scenario playing out:
Hasn't been announced. I'd bet money that it will be at night and prime time national audience on ABC. But, I seem to recall seeing somewhere that OU would like this game to be in the day. (we played WAY too many night games last year) but I can't find that...and I drink.....soooooooo
I am hoping on daytime. After I heard the stat that Stoops has only lost 4 times at home since he has been your coach(Is that true?). We don't need a night game on top of that .
I think OU would be happy to play Notre Dame at night. We just don't want to play the rest of the schedule at night, too. Having two September byes and an early road game will help the home schedule in that regard, b/c it won't be 100 degrees for afternoon kickoffs in October and November.
3.
TCU, OSU, and Tech. ****ing Tech ....
If Notre Dame comes into the game with 2 or fewer losses, I bet it will be a night game. If you guys come in ranked, ABC would drool all over itself for a chance to cover an OU/Notre Dame game in primetime.
Comforting.
We have a lot of questions next year so that is doubtful. If we find a QB than it is possible, if we start Rees we may lose them all.
The only big SEC game that day is UF/UGA, but that's probably a CBS daytime game.
Michigan is @ Nebraska that day. And Ohio State is at Penn State. So if either of those games are highly ranked, it could trump the OU/ND game for primetime. Other than that, I don't see much else.
Stoops is 77-3 in Norman since 1999.
Hopefully we beat Michigan so that won't matter as much. Some good games that day.
This is the reason ND fans were delusion-ally hoping we could steal him away from you.
Notre Dame's 2012 schedule.
Saturday 09/01/12 Navy Midshipmen Aviva Stadium, Dublin, Ireland
Saturday 09/08/12 Purdue Boilermakers Notre Dame Stadium, Notre Dame, IN
Saturday 09/15/12 at Michigan State Spartans Spartan Stadium, East Lansing, MI
Saturday 09/22/12 Michigan Wolverines Notre Dame Stadium, Notre Dame, IN
Saturday 09/29/12 --- Open Date --- ---
Saturday 10/06/12 Miami (FL) Hurricanes Soldier Field, Chicago, IL
Saturday 10/13/12 Stanford Cardinal Notre Dame Stadium, Notre Dame, IN
Saturday 10/20/12 BYU Cougars Notre Dame Stadium, Notre Dame, IN
Saturday 10/27/12 at Oklahoma Sooners ****lord Family OK Mem. Stadium, Norman, OK
Saturday 11/03/12 Pittsburgh Panthers Notre Dame Stadium, Notre Dame, IN
Saturday 11/10/12 at Boston College Eagles Alumni Stadium, Chestnut Hill, MA
Saturday 11/17/12 Wake Forest Demon Deacons Notre Dame Stadium, Notre Dame, IN
Saturday 11/24/12 at USC Trojans Los Angeles Mem. Coliseum, Los Angeles, C****
Holy hell....
This is the schedule that may get Kelly fired or on a very hot seat. .
You guys can't afford a travel letdown after the game in Ireland, and you need to at least split the MSU/Michigan games.
Bye week helps for Miami. Stanford is breaking in a new QB. BYU will be pretty good, but it's a home game. I could see Notre Dame starting the year anywhere from 1-6 to 6-1, depending on how good your QB play is.
I could see them going anywhere from 0-7 to 7-0 to start the season.
Yeah, using our last 15 years as a gauge we will be 3-4 or more likely 4-3
If that is the thought, what are the options for a good coach in light of the possibility of joining the ACC? And what would you guess as the timeframe to make a jump if before Big12 can lure speculated teams? I think ACC will be flexible with Notre Dame in light of having league implode. The SEC & B1G may grab 3, but B12 will have trouble unless Irish inform ACC that B12 is the choice. I belive @ some point IF Irish go ACC, the B12 will lose Oklahoma,Texas, Kansas & TCU to PAC @ end of grant of rights/LHN-OSN contract (or before) for a more lucrative deal with less market overlap.
not with out 8 of the 10 in the Big 12 currently voting to disolve the conference. And Baylor, Iowa State and K-state keep that from happening. Big 12 is here to stay. (sorry)
If the Irish join the ACC, then that basically will signal the end of any more major conference realignment for another 15 years or so. The Big 12 would probably go ahead and add Louisville and either BYU, Rutgers, or Cincinnati to get back to 12.
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