And my comments are not to be perceived as a ridiculing of your religious faith.
From Oklahoma City United States to Jerusalem, Israel is 6888 miles or 11082.79 Kilometers
From Oklahoma City United States to Shanghai, China is 7194 miles or 11575.15 Kilometers
(That's only a difference of 306 miles.)
There are 218,057 Jehovah's Witnesses in ****an (1 out of every 580 of the population of that country). My religion is banned in China, so those numbers are kept private.
In the first century C.E. miraculous gifts attended the baptism with holy spirit. These served as signs that God was no longer using the Jewish congregation in his service but that his approval rested on the Christian congregation established by his Son. (Heb 2:2-4) On the day of Pentecost, miraculous gifts accompanied the outpouring of the holy spirit, and in each case mentioned thereafter in the Scriptures where the miraculous gifts of the spirit were transmitted, at least one of the 12 apostles or Paul, who was directly chosen by Jesus, was present. (Ac 2:1, 4, 14; 8:9-20; 10:44-46; 19:6) Evidently, with the death of the apostles, the transmittal of the gifts of the spirit ended, and the miraculous gifts of the spirit ceased altogether as those who had received these gifts passed off the earthly scene. Such a view agrees with the purpose of those gifts as stated at Hebrews 2:2-4.
Performing apparently miraculous works would not in itself prove divine authorization, nor would the inability of God’s servants to perform miracles with the help of God’s spirit cast doubt on the fact that they were being used by him. (Mt 7:21-23) Not every first-century Christian could perform powerful works, heal, speak in tongues, and translate. Paul, and doubtless some others, had by God’s undeserved kindness been granted a number of these gifts of the spirit. However, these miraculous gifts marked the infancy of the Christian congregation and were foretold to cease. In fact, even Jesus indicated that his followers would be identified, not by their performance of powerful works, but by their love for one another.—1Co 12:29, 30; 13:2, 8-13; Joh 13:35.
Yes, the Greek pro‧phe′tes literally means “a speaker out [Gr., pro, “before” or “in front of,” and phe‧mi′, “say”]” and thus describes a proclaimer, one who makes known messages attributed to a divine source. Yes, that prophesying did not mean solely or necessarily predicting the future. The apostle Paul stated that “he that prophesies upbuilds and encourages and consoles men by his speech,” (1 Corinthians 14:3)
Thus, a person in modern times who chooses to refer to themselves as a 'prophet' who is not speaking of predictions, but a modern witness of the gospel is not a prophet in the same faculty that the twelve Apostles including Paul and others that were in the presence of the Apostles, in the first century, were. Powerful works are no longer needed to identify the true followers of Christ Jesus as was the case in the infancy of the Christian congregation. Rather, Jesus foretold that his followers in the established Christian congregation would be identified by their love for one another.—1Co 12:29, 30; 13:2, 8-13; Joh 13:35.
"Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all perform powerful works, do they? Not all have gifts of healings, do they? Not all speak in tongues, do they? Not all are translators, are they?"(1 Corinthians 12:29-30)
"And if I have the gift of prophesying and am acquainted with all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to transplant mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." (1 Corinthians 13:2)
Love never fails. But whether there are [gifts of] prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with. When I was a babe, I used to speak as a babe, to think as a babe, to reason as a babe; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the [traits] of a babe. For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face. At present I know partially, but then I shall know accurately even as I am accurately known. Now, however, there remain faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.(1 Corinthians 13:8-13)
"By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves." (John 13:35)
There is an influx of Christians the world over answering the call to unitedly proclaim the "good news" of God's Kingdom which will soon remove all the governments of this world, and it itself replace all of them.
"And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream." (Isaiah 2:2)
"And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:14)
"...the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;" (Daniel 2:44)
Then God’s Kingdom will usher in an earthly paradise. Mankind will be blessed - those of European ancestry, African ancestry, and of Asian ancestry.
“Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:3,4)
"And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace...The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it." (Psalm 37:10-11,29)
Last edited by Sooners; 06-15-2012 at 07:20 AM.
This makes no sense. Again, I am not poking fun at you. I simply don't know what in the world you are talking about."you don't get to decide what is on the sign."
Again, what...?And on a side note, do you ever address people as Tim?
Back to the topic at hand, Islam is a piece of **** religion suitable for the most piss-ignorant, backwards, and intolerant people on Earth. No wonder the likes of bruthman flock to it.
I went back and re-read it... (sorry I am really sleepy)... No, that's actually a very good question.
Job was a faithful servant of God who lived a long, long time before Jesus. What Job said about Sheol [the common grave] gives us an understanding of what the condition of the dead involves.
While the Greek teaching of the immortality of the human soul infiltrated Jewish religious thinking in later centuries, the Bible record shows that Sheol refers to mankind’s common grave as a place where there is no consciousness. (Ec 9:4-6, 10) Those in Sheol neither praise God nor mention him. (Ps 6:4, 5; Isa 38:17-19) Yet it cannot be said that it simply represents ‘a condition of being separated from God,’ since the Scriptures render such a teaching untenable by showing that Sheol is “in front of” him, and that God is in effect “there.” (Pr 15:11; Ps 139:7, 8; Am 9:1, 2) For this reason Job, longing to be relieved of his suffering, prayed that he might go to Sheol and later be remembered by Jehovah and be called out from Sheol.—Job 14:12-15.
On the day of Pentecost 33 C.E., the apostle Peter quoted from Psalm 16:10 and applied it to Christ Jesus. Luke, in quoting Peter’s words, used the Greek word hai′des, thereby showing that Sheol and Hades refer to the same thing, mankind’s common grave. (Ac 2:25-27, 29-32) During the Thousand Year Reign of Jesus Christ, Sheol, or Hades, is emptied and destroyed, through a resurrection of all of those in it.—Re 20:13, 14;
Everyone who is in Sheol or Hades will be resurrected in the future. Jesus tells us "Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out"(John 5:28-29)
"and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)
What it boils down to is that everyone is going to get a fair shake from God. Someone who lived well before the time of Christ certainly is not without an opportunity for salvation just because of when he was born in the stream of time.
Thanks Sooners. Very intelligent discussion of the scripture. .
"For Jehovah himself gives wisdom; out of his mouth there are knowledge and discernment. And for the upright ones he will treasure up practical wisdom; for those walking in integrity he is a shield, by observing the paths of judgment, and he will guard the very way of his loyal ones. In that case you will understand righteousness and judgment and uprightness, the entire course of what is good." (Proverbs 2:6-9)
I am merely discussing the scriptures. It is God himself who gives wisdom to right-hearted ones.
"True wisdom itself keeps crying aloud in the very street. In the public squares it keeps giving forth its voice. At the upper end of the noisy streets it calls out. At the entrances of the gates into the city it says its own sayings..." (Proverbs 1:20, 21)
Who first witnessed the empty tomb?
Was the leper healed before or after Jesus visited the house?
Did Jesus instruct his disciples to wear sandals and take a staff on their journey?
When did the fig tree wither? Immediately or the next day?
Who was the father of Joseph?
To whom did Jesus give the lord's prayer?
When did Satan enter Judas?
i have a better idea...
read them yourself...and post specific scriptures you believe contradict...
don't believe everything you read on atheist websites....
but i will take the first one...just to show you there is no contradiction...
mary magdalene is mentioned in all 4 gospels...as one of the first to encounter the empty tomb.Who first witnessed the empty tomb?
mary.....mother of Jesus is mentioned in a couple of the gospels
salome is mentioned in one....
luke says "the women"....mentions joanna....and "the others"...
so it's pretty clear there was a group....of women
and clearly...no contradiction...
i will gladly answer your other questions if you provide the scripture references....
the gospels are accounts of Jesus life/death/resurrection from the perspectives of 4 different people....
do you really believe that if one mentions "joanna" visiting Jesus' empty tomb...and another doesn't....that somehow proves the accounts are contradictory and therefore false?
you are........as they say....grasping at straws...
Last edited by 87sooner; 06-16-2012 at 06:33 PM.
The four Gospels (the word “Gospel” meaning “good news”), written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, give us a fourfold historical account of the life and activity of Jesus, each account being an independent report. The first three of these are sometimes called synoptic (meaning “like view”) because they have a relatively similar approach to Jesus’ ministry in comparison with John’s Gospel, yet each reflects individualism on the part of the writer. John’s Gospel fills in certain details omitted by the other three.
One gospel can differ from the next, and yet not be contradictory, but complimentary.
It seems that these events occurred on Nisan 9 (Jewish calendar) of 33 C.E.
The details of this feast are presented in three of the four Gospels. (Matthew 26:6-13; Mark 14:3-9; John 12:2-8) Matthew and Mark mention that feast after telling about Jesus’ triumphal ride into Jerusalem, his cursing of the barren fig tree, and his reply to the apostles’ question about the conclusion of the system of things. Both Matthew and Mark follow the account of the feast with Judas’ dealing with Jewish leaders about betraying Jesus. The positioning of the meal in these two accounts would suggest that it occurred on Nisan 12, just two days before Jesus’ betrayal and execution on Nisan 14. So the feast has been dated Nisan 12 on many charts showing the events of Jesus’ life, but is this correct?
In John chapter 12 the meal at Simon’s house is put in a different setting. John 12:1 reports that Jesus arrived in Bethany near Jerusalem “six days before the passover,” which would be Nisan 8. Then verses 2-8 describe an evening meal in Bethany, and verses 9-11 tell us that Jews who heard that Jesus was near came out to see him. Verses 12-15 say that “the next day” Christ triumphantly entered Jerusalem. (Compare Acts 20:7-11.) Hence, John 12:1-15 indicates that the meal at Simon’s house was on Nisan 9 in the evening, which according to the Jewish calendar would mark the start of the new day, followed in the daylight portion of that day (Nisan 9) by Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem.
Of these two possibilities, the second seems weightier. Why? Well, let us compare the accounts and their context. Neither Matthew nor Mark give any date for the feast in Simon’s house. They do, though, show that at that feast complaining arose over Mary’s use of costly oil, complaining that John indicates was led by greedy Judas. (Matthew 26:8, 9; Mark 14:4, 5; John 12:4-6) As we noted, both Matthew and Mark follow the episode of the feast with Judas’ approaching the priests to see how much he might be paid to betray Christ. Thus it could well be that Matthew and Mark for thematic reasons mention the feast where they did, linking one evidence of Judas’ greed with the ultimate expression of it.
John, though, does give a specific date for the feast, indicating that he mentioned it in its chronological position. This supports the conclusion that the evening meal at Simon’s home followed Jesus’ arrival in Bethany on Nisan 8, 33 C.E. Further, recall John’s information that Jews who ‘got to know that Jesus was now in Bethany’ came from Jerusalem to see him and Lazarus, who also lived in Bethany and whose sisters were at the feast. This visit by Jews who had just then “got to know” of Jesus’ being in Bethany would more likely have occurred before his entry into Jerusalem, and it possibly contributed to the enthusiastic reception of Christ during his ride into the city “the next day,” the daytime of Nisan 9.
While this may be a seemingly small, technical point, it illustrates how all of us can continue to grow in knowledge and understanding of the fine details in God’s Word.
To understand what Jesus wanted to convey on this occasion, note the expression common to all three Gospels. In the accounts just quoted as well as at Matthew 10:5-10, the apostles were told not to wear or to have “two undergarments.” Likely, each apostle was wearing one undergarment. So they were not to get another for the trip. Similarly, they were wearing sandals. Mark highlighted the need “to bind on sandals,” the sandals they were already wearing. How about staffs? The Jewish Encyclopedia notes: “It seems to have been the universal custom among the ancient Hebrews also to carry a staff.” (Gen. 32:10) Mark mentioned that the apostles were to “carry nothing for the trip” except the staff that they had with them when Jesus gave the command. Hence, the Gospel writers were emphasizing Jesus’ instruction not to go out of the way to get extra supplies for the trip.
This point is further emphasized by Matthew, who heard Jesus’ command on this occasion and recorded it. Jesus said: “Do not procure gold or silver or copper for your girdle purses, or a food pouch for the trip, or two undergarments, or sandals or a staff; for the worker deserves his food.” (Matt. 10:9, 10) What about the sandals that the apostles were wearing and the staffs that they had in their hands? Jesus did not say to throw away what they already had, but he was telling them not to procure such things. Why did he give such a command? Because “the worker deserves his food.” That was the thrust of Jesus’ command, which was in harmony with his exhortation in the Sermon on the Mount that they not be anxious about what they would eat, drink, or wear.—Matt. 6:25-32.
Though the Gospel accounts may at first seem to be contradictory, they were all covering the same point. The apostles were to go as they were and not be distracted by procuring anything extra. Why? Because Jehovah would provide for them.
The tree’s leaves are unseasonally early, since the season for figs is not until June, and it is now only late March. However, Jesus evidently feels that since the leaves are early, the figs might also be early. But he is disappointed. The leaves have given the tree a deceptive appearance. Jesus then curses the tree, saying: “Let no one eat fruit from you anymore forever.” The consequences of Jesus’ action and its significance are learned the following morning.
Continuing on, Jesus and his disciples soon reach Jerusalem. He goes to the temple, which he had inspected the previous afternoon. Today, however, he takes action, just as he did three years earlier when he came to the Passover in 30 C.E. Jesus throws out those selling and buying in the temple and overturns the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. He does not even allow anyone to carry a utensil through the temple.
Now, early Tuesday morning, Nisan 11, he and his disciples are on the road again. This proves to be a crucial day of Jesus’ ministry, the busiest thus far. It is the last day he appears in the temple. And it is the last day of his public ministry before his trial and execution.
Jesus and his disciples take the same route over the Mount of Olives toward Jerusalem. Along that road from Bethany, Peter notices the tree that Jesus cursed the previous morning. “Rabbi, see!” he exclaims, “the fig tree that you cursed has withered up.”
To understand how the sequence of events transpired, regarding the Jesus' withering of the fig tree and his purging of the temple, we must examine three separate events. First on the morning of Nisan 10 (Monday), while walking on the road toward Jerusalem from Bethany, the apostles observe Jesus curse the fig tree. Later in the day, still on Nisan 10, Jesus purges the temple of those selling and buying. The next morning of Nisan 11 (Tuesday), Jesus and his apostles are again walking from Bethany to Jerusalem when Peter notices the fig tree has withered which Jesus had cursed the previous day.
While Mark writes of the three events in separate chronological order, Matthew apparently chooses to describe the fig tree's cursing and subsequent withering together, and then to move on to the account of Jesus' purging of the temple.
The difference in nearly all the names in Luke’s genealogy of Jesus as compared with Matthew’s is quickly resolved in the fact that Luke traced the line through David’s son Nathan, instead of Solomon as did Matthew. (Lu 3:31; Mt 1:6, 7) Luke evidently follows the ancestry of Mary, thus showing Jesus’ natural descent from David, while Matthew shows Jesus’ legal right to the throne of David by descent from Solomon through Joseph, who was legally Jesus’ father. Both Matthew and Luke signify that Joseph was not Jesus’ actual father but only his adoptive father, giving him legal right. Matthew departs from the style used throughout his genealogy when he comes to Jesus, saying: “Jacob became father to Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.” (Mt 1:16) Notice that he does not say ‘Joseph became father to Jesus’ but that he was “the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born.” Luke is even more pointed when, after showing earlier that Jesus was actually the Son of God by Mary (Lu 1:32-35), he says: “Jesus . . . being the son, as the opinion was, of Joseph, son of Heli.”—Lu 3:23.
Since Jesus was not the natural son of Joseph but was the Son of God, Luke’s genealogy of Jesus would prove that he was, by human birth, a son of David through his natural mother Mary. Regarding the genealogies of Jesus given by Matthew and by Luke, Frederic Louis Godet wrote: “This study of the text in detail leads us in this way to admit—1. That the genealogical register of Luke is that of Heli, the grandfather of Jesus; 2. That, this affiliation of Jesus by Heli being expressly opposed to His affiliation by Joseph, the document which he has preserved for us can be nothing else in his view than the genealogy of Jesus through Mary. But why does not Luke name Mary, and why p**** immediately from Jesus to His grandfather? Ancient sentiment did not comport with the mention of the mother as the genealogical link. Among the Greeks a man was the son of his father, not of his mother; and among the Jews the adage was: ‘Genus matris non vocatur genus [“The descendant of the mother is not called (her) descendant”]’ (‘Baba bathra,’ 110, a).”—Commentary on Luke, 1981, p. 129.
On Nisan 11, Jesus Christ had rebuked the religious leaders publicly, and he realizes that they are seeking to kill him. On Nisan 12, while the religious leaders are wickedly conspiring to kill Jesus, they receive a visitor. To their surprise, it is one of Jesus’ own apostles, Judas Iscariot, the one into whom Satan has implanted the base idea of betraying his Master! How pleased they are when Judas inquires: “What will you give me to betray him to you?” They gladly agree to pay him 30 silver pieces, the price of a slave according to the Mosaic Law covenant.
"But Satan entered into Judas, the one called Is·car′i·ot, who was numbered among the twelve; and he went off and talked with the chief priests and [temple] captains about the effective way to betray him to them." (Luke 22:3, 4)
Later, on the night of the last supper, Jesus Christ explains: “One of you will betray me.” The apostles begin to grieve and say to Jesus one by one: “It is not I, is it?” Even Judas Iscariot joins in asking. John, who is lying next to Jesus at the table, leans back on Jesus’ **** and asks: “Lord, who is it?”
“It is one of the twelve, who is dipping with me into the common bowl,” Jesus answers. “True, the Son of man is going away, just as it is written concerning him, but woe to that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been finer for that man if he had not been born.” After that, Satan again enters Judas, taking advantage of the opening in his heart, which has become wicked.
So the latter leaned back upon the **** of Jesus and said to him: “Lord, who is it?” Therefore Jesus answered: “It is that one to whom I shall give the morsel that I dip.” And so, having dipped the morsel, he took and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Is·car′i·ot. And after the morsel then Satan entered into the latter. Jesus, therefore, said to him: “What you are doing get done more quickly.” (John 13:25-27)
Last edited by Sooners; 06-17-2012 at 01:00 AM.
I will start some threads. Hope you return and participate.
Zevo was banned for that?
why was the link removed? c'mon he didn't force anybody to see it. he ain't mooslem