***2012-13 NBA Discussion Thread***

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  1. #201
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    Good for Kelvin
       

  2. #202
    Wow, James Harden might be the best shooting guard in the league. Having a great year.
       

  3. #203

    Re: ***2012-13 NBA Discussion Thread***

    Heat thinks they're being targeted .. lol

    http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=8788308
       

  4. #204
    Of course they do. Heat get away with more than any team. Anyone else gets a multiple game suspension for such a play yet they still whine about it.
       

  5. #205

    Re: ***2012-13 NBA Discussion Thread***

    Damn, Detroit's bench outscored Miami's 64 to 20 tonight.
       

  6. #206
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    Originally Posted by WFSooner View Post
    Wow, James Harden might be the best shooting guard in the league. Having a great year.
    He is def top 3 behind Kobe and Wade... Personally, he is my fave
       

  7. #207
    The Bobcats have Lost 17 straight starting with the massacre by OKC over one month ago.
       

  8. #208
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    So OKC took their souls.. lol
       

  9. #209

    Re: ***2012-13 NBA Discussion Thread***

    Jarret Jack throws Dorrel Wright's shoe into the stands

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  10. #210
    No more Clippers winning streak
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  11. #211
    Originally Posted by WFSooner View Post
    Wow, James Harden might be the best shooting guard in the league. Having a great year.
    Originally Posted by vrortiz405 View Post
    He is def top 3 behind Kobe and Wade... Personally, he is my fave
    Uh, what?
    He's good and he can score, but there are a lot of guys that would score a lot if they played on a bad team and had a constant green light. Harden struggles against good teams that know how to defend him. Right now, he can score in a couple ways (shooting 3s, drawing contact for free throws).
    When he can score in more ways, against good defensive players the way Kobe, KD, Wade, Rudy Gay, Ginobili, etc. do, then I'll say he's getting there. And that's not even mentioning defense, which should go into that evaluation.
    Personally, I think we got rid of him at the right time and we got a hell of a deal getting Kevin Martin plus picks, etc.
    I wouldn't be shocked to see Harden's career going the way of Joe Johnson or Gilbert Arenas (when he was healthy).
       

  12. #212
    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post
    Uh, what?
    He's good and he can score, but there are a lot of guys that would score a lot if they played on a bad team and had a constant green light. Harden struggles against good teams that know how to defend him. Right now, he can score in a couple ways (shooting 3s, drawing contact for free throws).
    When he can score in more ways, against good defensive players the way Kobe, KD, Wade, Rudy Gay, Ginobili, etc. do, then I'll say he's getting there. And that's not even mentioning defense, which should go into that evaluation.
    Personally, I think we got rid of him at the right time and we got a hell of a deal getting Kevin Martin plus picks, etc.
    I wouldn't be shocked to see Harden's career going the way of Joe Johnson or Gilbert Arenas (when he was healthy).
    Umm...What green light are you talking about?

    James attempts less shots than Kobe, Carmelo, Durant, LBJ, Westbrook and Lamarcus Aldridge who are all in the Top 10 in PPG.

    He also goes to the line more than any other player in basketball, which is worth a hell of a lot. He has a Top 20 FT% among people who score 10+ PPG, and is only behind Curry and Durant in FT% amongst the Top 10 scorers in the league.

    I don't understand why you're bringing in KD and Gay into the conversation, seeings as they're SFs. And regardless of what moves he has or doesn't have, he's still scoring more than all but 4 players in the NBA, and he's doing it with less than average (in his category) attempts. He's scored 25+ in 60% of his games this year. Moreover, he's the 8th most efficient player in the league with great ball handling skills and the ability to get his teammates involved more than Wade and Kobe do.

    His defense is certainly nothing to balk at, even if it's not anything particularly amazing...He's certainly better than Martin and only a little behind Westbrook (based on what we've seen this year). He's young and had the size to defend every bit as well as Kobe and Wade, he's just young and rounding out his game.

    He's had really good to great games against @ATL, CHI, NYK, @SAS, @NYK, MEM, @CHI, @MIN, @SAS. His most recent game against OKC was not too bad by any stretch.

    He's the 3rd best SG in the league. Yes he plays pretty poorly from time to time, and he's got a long way to go to work on his game...but he's easily an All-Star and the only SG in the game right now that I'd consider building a franchise around. Kobe and Wade are too old, and nobody else has shown to be good enough. I mean seriously, Kevin Martin is a Top 10 SG in the league, and he is anything but franchise player material.
       

  13. #213
    That being said, I'm glad we traded him as we got far more value out of the trade than we would have ever gotten from Harden. The biggest reason getting Harden was worth it, is it has expedited our need to figure out how to run an offense and for a majority of the season, we've finally developed the ability to play in the half-court (though it still needs lots of work)...it's accelerated the growth of Durant, Ibaka, and Westbrook.

    It also makes it possible to get and keep good players moving forward, which can't be overlooked. Miami beat OKC in the finals with Battier, Chalmers, and Miller...We need to be able to sign and re-sign valuable role-players, and that would never have been a reality with Harden on the roster.
       

  14. #214
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    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post
    Uh, what?
    He's good and he can score, but there are a lot of guys that would score a lot if they played on a bad team ...
    Who are your Top 5 SGs in the league, right now??

    Originally Posted by Teo9969 View Post
    He's the 3rd best SG in the league. Yes he plays pretty poorly from time to time, and he's got a long way to go to work on his game...but he's easily an All-Star and the only SG in the game right now that I'd consider building a franchise around. Kobe and Wade are too old, and nobody else has shown to be good enough. I mean seriously, Kevin Martin is a Top 10 SG in the league, and he is anything but franchise player material.
    +1
       

  15. #215
    Originally Posted by Teo9969 View Post
    That being said, I'm glad we traded him as we got far more value out of the trade than we would have ever gotten from Harden. The biggest reason getting Harden was worth it, is it has expedited our need to figure out how to run an offense and for a majority of the season, we've finally developed the ability to play in the half-court (though it still needs lots of work)...it's accelerated the growth of Durant, Ibaka, and Westbrook.

    It also makes it possible to get and keep good players moving forward, which can't be overlooked. Miami beat OKC in the finals with Battier, Chalmers, and Miller...We need to be able to sign and re-sign valuable role-players, and that would never have been a reality with Harden on the roster.
    I agree with all of this.
    I just don't understand all the hype for Harden who didn't even start until this year, has had some great scoring games, sure, but to say he's the #3 SG in the NBA already? I think its a little early for that.

    My top 5? I don't know... I'd say Kobe, Wade, Ginobili are all guys I'd take over Harden today. Monta Ellis is good, Ray Allen is old but he's still good, not saying they are necessarily better than Harden, but they are up there... Eric Gordon, Joe Johnson, Paul George is maybe listed as a SF but he is really good... Even Tony Allen is really good because he is so good defensively and can score pretty well, Damian Lillard is a young guy who is showing to be pretty good... Plus not to mention Kevin Martin who put up numbers on a shitty team (just like Harden is now) for years and is proving he can adapt to a new offense now with OKC.

    I'm just saying there are a lot of shooting guard/small forward types in the NBA... that is the most common size guy in the league. Almost every team has a good one and there are a lot that are in the argument behind Kobe, Wade, and I'd say Ginobili as he is so clutch and is a huge part of why San Antonio has been so good...

    I like Harden and he is an impressive scorer, but he hasn't really shown more than most of those guys I just mentioned and there are probably ten other guys I could have mentioned that are in that mix.
    And his game against OKC was trash. He was shut down, OKC blocked his shot like 5 times, he couldn't get his calls because OKC just let him try and then came from behind or the side and swatted him. He got trash points late and that game was a blowout.

    If he averages 25 a game this season and gets that shitty Houston team to the playoffs and does something, then I'd put him up there, but not yet. We aren't even half way through the season, he's started a total of like 30 games right now in his career.
       

  16. #216
    James Harden at 23 years old is already second in the league in scoring for guards behind only Kobe. Not bad considering he gets most of the attention playing with good but not great players in Houston. He's easily top 5 and will probably be at the top soon as Kobe and Wade age.

    Thunder will miss him in the playoffs. His facilitating skills in crunch time being the most obvious. As good as Westbrook is he still takes questionable shots and turns it over too much.
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  17. #217
    If we miss Harden's facilitating skills come the playoffs, then we need to fire Scott Brooks immediately. OKC needs reliable offensive sets that generate the necessary space for KD and Russ to produce...preferably, Brooks starts finding better ways to get the ball in the hands of the bigs for easy layups and dunks at the rim.

    Would be nice to see the Thunder make use of the daisy chained pick and rolls that Brooklyn killed us with tonight, particularly when Westbrook, KMart, KD, and Ibaka are all on the floor.
       

  18. #218
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    Boog, I am going to disagree with you on your top SGs list. One of the things that separates Harden from most SGs is his ability, athleticism and him being a complete player.

    He can take you off the dribble or he can spot up... Not many players can penetrate into the paint like he can. His ability and efficiency in getting to the line is incredible in itself. Plus he rebounds, assists and his D is steady improving. The only other guards who can do ALL of that and more are Kobe and Wade.

    He shoots 10.3 free throws a gm, and leads the league in that category! He is in the Top 10 in steals per gm, among ALL players. You can not base your rationale on how he has played against OKC. The other guys you mentioned will never be the premier player(s) that Harden is.
       

  19. #219
    I think at this very moment, you can make an argument for Ginobili to be in front of Harden...but I don't think that argument has a prayer of lasting through the season.

    The reason that you have to put Harden in the mix is not because he's got a perfectly rounded game like Kobe or Wade...it's because he drives the lane better than anyone in all of basketball, and he's been that way for well over 100 games now. It's why he gets to the line the way he does. He has so much upper-body strength that he can sell every bit of contact by keeping control and getting his shot to the rim. Far stronger than Kobe, Wade, Westbrook, Ginobili, or Parker.
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  20. #220
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    The stat that I was mostly impressived with on Harden was his 10.3 FT attempts/gm. The only other player in the league who averages 10 FTA is Hack-A-Dwight.
       

  21. #221
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    Man Greivus VAsquez has turned into i really good player. Would love for the thunder to have him as a backup point. 13 ppg, 9 aps, shooting in high 30s from 3
       

  22. #222
    Originally Posted by vrortiz405 View Post
    Boog, I am going to disagree with you on your top SGs list. One of the things that separates Harden from most SGs is his ability, athleticism and him being a complete player.

    He can take you off the dribble or he can spot up... Not many players can penetrate into the paint like he can. His ability and efficiency in getting to the line is incredible in itself. Plus he rebounds, assists and his D is steady improving. The only other guards who can do ALL of that and more are Kobe and Wade.

    He shoots 10.3 free throws a gm, and leads the league in that category! He is in the Top 10 in steals per gm, among ALL players. You can not base your rationale on how he has played against OKC. The other guys you mentioned will never be the premier player(s) that Harden is.
    Yeah I definitely see your point, but I'm just saying it is really early in his career for all the accolades.
    The only reason I brought up OKC is because someone mentioned it as a great game he had, but it wasn't if you watched it.
    For all the praise Harden is getting, he absolutely disappeared in the playoffs last season when we needed him the most.
    I'd add Ben Gordon and Jamal Crawford to the list of guys who could put up big numbers on a shitty team.
    It would be very interesting to see a lot of those guys I mentioned playing at Houston, and what they would do.
    He is really, really good and could be in that top 3 or even better soon, but I'm just saying its early.

    But if you wanna crown him, crown him!
       

  23. #223
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    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post
    Yeah I definitely see your point, but I'm just saying it is really early in his career for all the accolades.
    The only reason I brought up OKC is because someone mentioned it as a great game he had, but it wasn't if you watched it.
    For all the praise Harden is getting, he absolutely disappeared in the playoffs last season when we needed him the most.
    I'd add Ben Gordon and Jamal Crawford to the list of guys who could put up big numbers on a shitty team.
    It would be very interesting to see a lot of those guys I mentioned playing at Houston, and what they would do.
    He is really, really good and could be in that top 3 or even better soon, but I'm just saying its early.

    But if you wanna crown him, crown him!
    I think people are talking about his second game vs okc
       

  24. #224
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    I think people are talking about his second game vs okc
    In that game he got 25pts on 35% shooting, had 1 assist, 3 reb, 4 TO, and was 11-14 FTs.
       

  25. #225
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    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post
    In that game he got 25pts on 35% shooting, had 1 assist, 3 reb, 4 TO, and was 11-14 FTs.
    yeah it still wasn't efficient but better than his first clunker.
       

  26. #226
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    Man Greivus VAsquez has turned into i really good player. Would love for the thunder to have him as a backup point. 13 ppg, 9 aps, shooting in high 30s from 3
    Yes he is. Have him on my fantasy team and he consistently puts up 15/10 a night. He's slow but he can gets the job done. Hornets have a nice young core there.
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  27. #227
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    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    Man Greivus VAsquez has turned into i really good player. Would love for the thunder to have him as a backup point. 13 ppg, 9 aps, shooting in high 30s from 3
    Yes, he is solid... Impressed with his numbers... Byway, why are you keeping an eye on my player??
       

  28. #228
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    Originally Posted by vrortiz405 View Post
    Yes, he is solid... Impressed with his numbers... Byway, why are you keeping an eye on my player??
    i was actually looking up stats on nba.com and saw that he was near the top of assist stats. surprised me
       

  29. #229
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    i was actually looking up stats on nba.com and saw that he was near the top of assist stats. surprised me
    I am surprised by him also... never thought he would be very good in the NBA, as I thought he was overrated and sloppy while he was at Maryland.
       

  30. #230
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    Man Greivus VAsquez has turned into i really good player. Would love for the thunder to have him as a backup point. 13 ppg, 9 aps, shooting in high 30s from 3
    Yeah, I feel bad for him though when he is playing Russ. RW just absolutely tears him up.
       

  31. #231
    You thought the Brooklyn @ OKC officiating was bad...how about missing this call...

       

  32. #232
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    Clipshow looked solid against the Lakers tonight. Blake was a beast and Paul was his usual assassin self. Kobe shooting all the time and Howard continues to fail.
       

  33. #233

    Re: ***2012-13 NBA Discussion Thread***

    Houston released DC3 and Chicago picked him up.

    http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=8818298
       

  34. #234
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    Good for him... Hopefully he can hang on there.
       

  35. #235
    Sure do wish the Thunder hadn't given up Eric Bledsoe in the Cole Aldrich trade.
       

  36. #236
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    Originally Posted by WFSooner View Post
    Sure do wish the Thunder hadn't given up Eric Bledsoe in the Cole Aldrich trade.
    +1
       

  37. #237
    Harden had a good game tonight.
    Lakers are in trouble without Gasol and Howard.

    125-112 Rockets.
       

  38. #238
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    Yep, they might not even make the play-offs
       

  39. #239
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    I cannot remember a playoffs without the Lakers or Mavs. Maybe mid or early 90s.
       

  40. #240
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    Since the NBA/ABA merger in 1976, the Lakers and Mavs have both missed the playoffs once, in 1994. Neither on pace to make it this year.
       

  41. #241
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    Originally Posted by TheLadiesMike View Post
    I cannot remember a playoffs without the Lakers or Mavs. Maybe mid or early 90s.
    Lakers are currently 4 GB of the 8th seed... The first 6 teams are bound to be locked in... Denver and Portland are sitting at 7 and 8, and they are both very solid teams... With Dwight, Gasol and Hill injured, its going to be difficult to gain any ground.
       

  42. #242
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    Originally Posted by vrortiz405 View Post
    Lakers are currently 4 GB of the 8th seed... The first 6 teams are bound to be locked in... Denver and Portland are sitting at 7 and 8, and they are both very solid teams... With Dwight, Gasol and Hill injured, its going to be difficult to gain any ground.
    Let's say they need 46 wins to make the playoffs. That would mean they'd have to finish 31-18. And that's if they don't end up being 15-21 by week's end. Not seeing that happening.
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  43. #243
    Even if the Lakers make it to the playoffs, they will by no means be a threat to make it out of the 1st round. Any of the teams that they play in the first round will win in 5. The Lakers are going to battle through injuries all season because they are old and because of this, they are never going to develop the cohesion necessary to play at a solid level in the playoffs. Opposing offenses aren't going to have to work particularly hard because the Lakers defense is not going to develop to the level necessary for a playoff team, and the Lakers are going to have to make their streaky offense work against playoff defense.
       

  44. #244
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    I've heard more than one discussion about howard not being healthy. Before the season there was talk about him being ready by the AS break and here he was playing right away. He just doesn't look right. I've seen games where he's underneath and unable to go up and dunk it. Makes you wonder about the pressure out there to win. There's nothing sadder than a team getting old and failing but with them I'll make an exception.
       

  45. #245
    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    I've heard more than one discussion about howard not being healthy. Before the season there was talk about him being ready by the AS break and here he was playing right away. He just doesn't look right. I've seen games where he's underneath and unable to go up and dunk it. Makes you wonder about the pressure out there to win. There's nothing sadder than a team getting old and failing but with them I'll make an exception.
    I don't know if he's been 100% or not, but I don't know why everyone thinks he's such a badass.
    He's a really big guy that can dunk if he has it at the rim. He is a weak free throw shooter, can't score very well unless he's at the rim, good defender inside because of his size... I just don't see why people thought he would go to L.A. and have a huge game changing impact immediately. Howard had a team built around him the right way, imo, in Orlando. Let him be the guy inside, and get shooters on the perimeter. Howard gets the ball. If they collapse on him, kick it out, make a 3. If they don't collapse, dunk it. If they miss a 3, Howard rebounds, kick it out or dunk it. Now he is supposed to run D'Antoni's system?
       

  46. #246
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    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post
    I don't know if he's been 100% or not, but I don't know why everyone thinks he's such a badass.
    He's a really big guy that can dunk if he has it at the rim. He is a weak free throw shooter, can't score very well unless he's at the rim, good defender inside because of his size... I just don't see why people thought he would go to L.A. and have a huge game changing impact immediately. Howard had a team built around him the right way, imo, in Orlando. Let him be the guy inside, and get shooters on the perimeter. Howard gets the ball. If they collapse on him, kick it out, make a 3. If they don't collapse, dunk it. If they miss a 3, Howard rebounds, kick it out or dunk it. Now he is supposed to run D'Antoni's system?
    He's not a good fit for them at all. When he gets the ball it tends to be a black hole. He's not one to kick it around to people and the shot clock seems to speed up when he has it. He doesn't run the floor that well and doesn't create much on his own. I never saw him as an upgrade for Bynum - who I really liked but he was always hurt - and I didn't get the Lakers desire to run him out of town. IMO Gasol hasn't been as good without Bynum. To be honest I'd much rather have Jordan than Howard. He's younger and more athletic and IMO just as effective on defense. He runs the floor like a deer and as this season has shown he's willing to work hard to improve his offensive game - as well as his FT. JMO.
       

  47. #247
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    Everytime I watch the Clippers play, all I can think of is how deep their roster is... FML
       

  48. #248
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    Originally Posted by vrortiz405 View Post
    Everytime I watch the Clippers play, all I can think of is how deep their roster is... FML
    Deep, athletic, young, exciting. Sounds a lot like my stable.
       

  49. #249
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    So KG was telling Melo that LaLa tastes like Honey Nut Cheerios? Too absolutely ****ing funny. I loves me some KG!
       

  50. #250
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    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    So KG was telling Melo that LaLa tastes like Honey Nut Cheerios? Too absolutely ****ing funny. I loves me some KG!
    Is this true??... Or you bullshittin?.... Link?
       

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