Tulsa,Umass next up for the Big East
The Big East is hoping to resolve its divorce with the seven departing Catholic-based basketball schools within the next few weeks -- in time for a summer 2014 departure -- according to a source who had detailed knowledge of Friday's conference call with the Big East.
The source said there seems to be a consensus the seven will leave and form their own league for fall 2014, exactly what the seven want as well, according to a number of sources from the departing seven.
The source said the conference call didn't focus on expansion but rather on the exit of the seven, as well as a new television contract. The Big East has a football contract for fall 2013 but nothing for men's basketball in 2013-14. ESPN has the right of first refusal, but NBC Sports has been the most aggressive to secure the deal, according to the source.
The source said the remaining Big East schools expect a legal battle with the departing schools for the Big East name, which carries with it branding rights and national recognition.
The departing seven -- Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Marquette, DePaul and Villanova -- still must form a league. They also need to decide on a commissioner, bylaws, location, championships, compliance rules and how many schools they will add. The departing seven are expected to initially target Butler and Xavier out of the Atlantic 10, and possibly grow to 10 or 12 teams with candidates among Creighton, Dayton, Saint Louis, Richmond and VCU.
The remaining Big East schools in 2014-15 would consist of UConn, Cincinnati, South Florida, Memphis, Temple, SMU, Houston, Central Florida, Tulane and East Carolina for football, and then Navy in fall 2015.
Pitt and Syracuse are leaving the Big East for the ACC next season, and Louisville and Notre Dame are expected to join in fall 2014, while Rutgers is headed to the Big Ten at the same time.
If the Big East expands again, the two schools mentioned most by sources are UMass and Tulsa out of the A-10 and Conference USA, respectively.
NBC Sports Network verbally offered the Big East between $20 million to $23 million a year for six years to acquire the league's media rights, sources told ESPN.
Meanwhile the Big East's Catholic 7 schools are closing on a deal with Fox Sports according to sources.
NBC Sports Network is expected to submit an official offer to the Big East by next week. Once the Big East receives an official offer from NBC Sports Network, the league must give ESPN, the Big East's current rights holder, the opportunity to match the deal.
The Catholic 7 schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall and Villanova -- haven't formed a new league yet, but Fox Sports has been the leader for their media rights after approaching the schools before they had even left the Big East, sources said. Fox Sports' offer would be worth $30 million to $40 million a year depending on how many teams are in the league, sources said.
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. The SEC presence in Texas has grown substantially with TAMU in the SEC. Then the B12 shot itself in the foot when it expanded back into Texas with TCU. What kind of dumbasses expand with a school in a state you supposedly own that represents your only recruiting hotbed? This is especially true when everyone knew the SEC presence in Texas was going to grow. There are too many mouths at the Texas trough. It's great that Texas produces a lot of blue chippers. The problem for the B12 when is that it's only recruiting "hotbed" has been taken over by the SEC....more or less.
The B12, on average, had the worst recruiting classes of all 5 major conferences. How is that really going to change? TCU is now tougher to recruit against and the SEC is all over the state. The B12 simply cannot recruit anywhere else worth a sh*t. If the B12 dies it will have no one to blame but itself.
What statistical data are you using to support this statement?
Using Rivals team rankings (am sure there could be some difference between different services):
Big East......so far behind I didn't bother tallying.
You forgot to add that BYU is ranked #71 which would put them significantly below average in any major conference. Any reply to x97 must contain an insult to BYU.
good lord I wish we would have gone to the SEC.
aTm is pretty much making a fool of everyone that said they would slide further into mediocrity by moving.
**** conference realignment. Lets go back to the Big 8. Dominate our conference and have the marquee games be Texas and Nebraska. Just like it used to be.
If you stand by your claim, I will happily do the number crunching if you agree to never post in this thread again if you're wrong.
Kolob isn't real.
The average star value of BYU's recruits would put them at the bottom of the Big East.
"Too many mouths at the Texas trough". Laughable.
Shall we talk about all the mouths to feed in the state of Florida?
And if you didn't understand why we added TCU, and you didn't understand why the B1G added Rutgers and Maryland, at what point do you expect us to give you any credibility? I don't hold anything against you because you are BYU fan. I don't care. I only consider the merits of your posts unto themselves.
And while you may be right about FSU not wanting to leave the ACC (and I believe you are), you reveal a general ignorance about a lot of other things.
Texas A&M, year in and year out, almost exclusively signs or has signed Texas HS players. Nothing changed. Read that again.
Their presence couldn't have grown, relatively speaking. They can only take so many and they only ever took so many. And they were always the #2 program in the state of Texas. So now they're #1, even if we accepted that (although it isn't true), they can only do what UT has managed to do over the years. Besides, there are still 350+ HS players that are D1/FBS level in Texas available, even if A&M got the precise 25 they wanted. Last year the state of TX had 371 signees. Twice as many as the states of Georgia and Ohio. THREE times as many as Alabama and Louisiana. Again, you're clueless.
And UT has done that for decades. They've picked and chose the guys they wanted and basically it hasn't helped them beat Oklahoma or even A&M regularly. Talking about the ACC and money and realignment is one thing. But please get a clue before you start talking about our backyard.
Now, the B12 schools signed more recruits per school than ACC schools and, therefore, generated more "points".....but ACC recruits, overall, had a higher star rating than B12 recruits. The B12 was LAST among the 5 big conferences in average star ranking. In fact, the Big 12 signed classes that were closely ranked with the Big East than the SEC. This was also the case last year. The last time the B12 didn't sign at least the 5th worst class was in 2011 (before A&M and TCU moves). Now stfu.
The Big 12 ended up with half the conference close to a Top 25 recruiting ranking. KU and K-State were too juco heavy to have any prayer of finishing that high, but jucos often don't have a star rating that corresponds to their talent level. Tech's class was down b/c of a coaching transition.
If you want to come back in five years after we have some better data to look at, I'm sure most of the people on this board will be willing to have a conversation with you then.
Texas A&M - 1997, 1998, 2010, 2012 Big 12 Champs*
So while there were more athletes offered scholarships from Texas that was heavily influenced by the fact so many schools are recruiting Texas as a "need". If you want to sign the 350th best player in the state of Texas and end up like UTSA then so be it. I'm sure the SEC won't intervene.
Cable networks very well could tell the BTN tough luck. It's been happening in markets that care a lot more. You are the one whose argument doesn't hold water. Precedent has been set in other markets that actually care about college sports.
As for TCU? LOL. Adding a school inside your footprint that only made recruiting more difficult. There's a reason every other conference in the country is looking to EXPAND its FOOTPRINT. Doubling down into states and markets you already own is basically a suicide move. Keep defending it, though. Your leaders have defended similar moves and have now lost 4 charter members in the last 2 and a half years. LOL.
What I find somewhat amusing is the spin on this board. First, you say the Big 12 must get into Florida for recruiting purposes (despite the fact Florida is owned by the SEC and non-contiguous to the current Big 12 footprint) but then flip and say Texas A&M's presence in the SEC won't help other SEC schools recruit Texas.....even though Texas is a contiguous state to the previous SEC footprint (more geographically friendly for recruits). You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth but you do. Why?
A 4 or 5 star kid with 20 offers from Miami is probably not going to OU whether there is a Big 12 school or not in Florida. It is just too remote. The same kid would latch onto to Florida, Florida State, Georgia, or another SEC team in heartbeat. The same type of recruit from Houston, on the hand, has a very solid chance of going SEC, however. Keep talking out of both sides of your mouth. It makes you look pathetic.
The bottom line is that Texas is fertile recruiting grounds (why you keep arguing it when I already told you I agree is pretty silly). And Texas and OU will always sign good classes (I never argued this point either so I don't know why you keep arguing it also silly). We already AGREE on these points.
Where we don't agree is where I said the SEC presence in Texas has grown (therefore, hurting B12 recruiting) and TCU's recruiting prowess in Texas has grown (also hurting the rest of the B12 in recruiting). You seem to think this is meaningless or non-existant(or close to it). The last 2 years the Big 12's average star ranking has been the worst among the 5 largest conferences (on the other hand, it was 2nd to only the SEC in 2011). The most recent recruiting class saw only 14 of the top 50 players in the state of Texas signed with Big 12 teams not named TCU. In the past 70-80% of these kids signed with B12 schools.
With the new recruiting reality the Big 12 faces it will no longer be able to keep up with the SEC at all. And it looks to be struggling to just to keep up with the ACC.
I'm not sure how much A&M's move to the SEC affected OU. It seems like A&M and Texas have switched places on the recruiting trail. LSU got no recruits from Texas this year. None. Arky got 3 but I don't think any of them were guys that OU or A&M were looking at.
That tells me that the kids in TX who want to play in the SEC will go to A&M instead of LSU or Arky. The kids who want to represent their home state on a national stage will go to A&M instead of Texas. If OU can get back to winning some big games (and, unfortunately, no one else considers Texas a big game) then OU will be back in the hunt. OU lost some head-to-heads against A&M this year and will probably continue to do so as long as A&M is winning. But the same was true with Texas a few years back and OU was able to win a lot more B12 championships than Texas (and that was wehn teh B12 was much stronger). A&M beating OU soundly in the Cotton Bowl definitely hurt OU on the recruiting trail. But any time a team is beaten soundly in a bowl game, it will hurt their recruiting.
I'm not saying it's good for OU to stay in the Big12 as it is. I'm just saying OU isn't as hurt by A&M's move as some other schools.
Texas A&M - 1997, 1998, 2010, 2012 Big 12 Champs*
Texas A&M - 1997, 1998, 2010, 2012 Big 12 Champs*
@TeddyGreenstein B1G's Delany: Status quo of 8 conf games "not even on the table" now. It'll be either 9 or 10. Decision in spring.
That statement basically tells me the B1G is going to 18-20. Look out.
@TeddyGreenstein Delany: “We like to play each other, and those not hollow words. We are getting larger and want to bind the conference together.”
Also of significance: More night games are likely for November, and conference play will begin earlier. In 2012, no Big Ten games were staged until week 5.
Probably a good idea.
Here we go. I hope. Please, God, let the Big 12 collapse this Spring.
So in a 18-20 team B1G scenario, do they seriously consider OU?
I think ND would be hard-pressed to turn down that invite, btw. At 20 members, the B1G would lock most of their league into a 9 or 10 game conference schedule, and that would basically shut the Irish out of scheduling Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, etc., with any frequency. The Irish can't fulfill their mission to be a "national" football program without meaningful games in the midwest, northeast, and mid-Atlantic.
I'm ready for re-alignment to be over. Funny how it wasn't a term we thought of even three years ago, now it invokes fear and loose stool anytime i hear it. Conference stability sounds so...........Serene.
Texas A&M - 1997, 1998, 2010, 2012 Big 12 Champs*
That's nice. Literally no one outside of your fanbase gives the slightest **** about your school.
Let me explain this to you in idiots' language, son.
If a recruit from Texas had SEC offers and was hell bent on going to the SEC from the get go then he's going to the SEC regardless of whether TAMU is there or not. There is no Big 12 gain there.
If a recruit from Texas has SEC offers and wants to play close to home he now has the option of staying in Texas AND playing in the SEC. He can have his cake and eat it, too. In the past this recruit may have decided that staying close to home was more important than playing in the SEC. These types of recruits are recruits the B12 will miss out on in the future. Whether this recruit would have signed with UT or anyone else in the B12 is of little consequence. If he passes on UT to play in the SEC (TAMU) that means Texas is signing someone else in their class to replace him (usually a less heralded recruit). This hurts Texas. When Texas starts creeping down the recruiting pecking order it means they start picking off recruits from OU and the rest of the B12. This hurts the ENTIRE conference. If OU loses someone to Texas that they would have signed otherwise then they start moving down the recruiting latter and hurt schools like OSU, etc. The entire league gets hurt when its recruiting base gets raided. It's not just one school. The Big 12 is the overall loser in this game.
As for TCU, if a recruit from the metroplex wants to go the B12 he now has the option of staying home and playing for TCU. In the past this kid may have gone to OU, Texas Tech, Baylor, or whoever. TCU signing better recruits also weakens the B12 overall in recruiting.
The net effect of these two factors (plus small population footprint) means the Big 12 is no longer getting recruiting classes that are 2nd only to the SEC (as in 2011) but are getting classes that are ranked the lowest of the big 5 conferences (as in 2012 and 2013). The effects of this are plain as day. In the past 70-80% of the top 50 recruits in the state of Texas ended up in the Big 12. This past year only 14 of the top 50 signed with Big 12 schools not named TCU.
All that being said, I'm not saying OU is doomed. I am saying, though, that the Big 12 is doomed to be the least significant of the major conferences and there really isn't anything that can be done to stop it at this point.
I love the spin on these things. Delany clearly said that "binding the conference together" and that league schools "like to play each other" is important. So, how do you guys spin it? He saying the league is actually going to 20! LOL. Chumps.
Look, if a conference goes to 18 or 20 it doesn't matter how many league games they schedule. That league is not "binding the conference together" and schools are not playing each other. The whole point of his comment was that schools want to have as many cross-over games as possible and "bind the league together". Even if you have a 10 game conference schedule with 18 schools that means you play just 2 cross over games annually. That means a school like Maryland may get to host Nebraska just once a decade. That is not "binding a league". That's 2 separate conferences. If you go to 20 it gets even worse. Even at 16, a 10 game schedule isn't great. You still don't play most of the teams in the opposing division each year.
Anyone who interprets Delany's comment right there as an indicator of expansion.....especially to 18 to 20 is a tool. Plain and simple.