Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

Posted 680 day(s) ago by ltsooner9650 Views 273 Replies
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  1. #201
    .
    Last edited by soonerintn; July 19th, 2013 at 10:30 PM.

  2. #202
    Originally Posted by soonerintn View Post
    Yep. Caved on this. If he caves on guns, the repubs are done. Hell, if he the repubs cave on guns, you will see some new blood running against them. As it is, there are already 2 repubs throwing their hat in the ring to run against my current repub rep. We will see some indies and libertarians, as well.
    Guns? You guys must have forgotten about the debt ceiling coming up in 2 months. And O's not going to budge on it either.

    Obama: "I will not have another debate with this Congress" over the debt ceiling. "We can't not pay bills that we've already incurred."

  3. #203
    okie52's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by soonerintn View Post
    Yep. Caved on this. If he caves on guns, the repubs are done. Hell, if he the repubs cave on guns, you will see some new blood running against them. As it is, there are already 2 repubs throwing their hat in the ring to run against my current repub rep. We will see some indies and libertarians, as well.
    I'm guessing there will be a number of pubs move towards the libertarian party...this may have done it for me.

  4. #204
    .
    Last edited by soonerintn; July 19th, 2013 at 10:30 PM.

  5. #205
    In other news, O is heading for Hawaii in 6 minutes.

  6. #206

    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    Guns? You guys must have forgotten about the debt ceiling coming up in 2 months. And O's not going to budge on it either.

    Obama: "I will not have another debate with this Congress" over the debt ceiling. "We can't not pay bills that we've already incurred."
    I'm sure the repubs will give the power to raise the ceiling to Obama, just like he wants. I have zero faith in the repubs at this point. They will continue to cave on everything. There are a small few repubs who are good. But in general, the dems have made the repubs their ****.

  7. #207
    Chuck Woolery @chuckwoolery
    Obama speech about fiscal cliff, says to congress "thanks b&@ches, boom I'm out of here"

  8. #208
    Speaker John Boehner @SpeakerBoehner
    Now the focus turns to cutting spending. j.mp/12X6j8W

    Hahahhahahahahhahah.

  9. #209
    Yatahaze's Avatar
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    First step to reform: ban political parties.

  10. #210
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    Speaker John Boehner @SpeakerBoehner
    Now the focus turns to cutting spending. j.mp/12X6j8W

    Hahahhahahahahhahah.
    Yeah, that will happen. LOL

  11. #211
    Originally Posted by Yatahaze View Post
    First step to reform: ban political parties.
    We only have one now. It's the BGP.
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  12. #212
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    Originally Posted by Yatahaze View Post
    First step to reform: ban political parties.
    Has that happened anywhere in a democratic country?

  13. #213
    What are these idiots doing? They pass a Dem bill for the fiscal cliff, and then won't vote on the Sandy relief bill? Hey politicians--it's called politics, and you suck at it.

  14. #214
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    What are these idiots doing? They pass a Dem bill for the fiscal cliff, and then won't vote on the Sandy relief bill? Hey politicians--it's called politics, and you suck at it.
    They really are sucking at it...although it is for a bunch of new englanders that never vote for pubs anyway.

  15. #215
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    What are these idiots doing? They pass a Dem bill for the fiscal cliff, and then won't vote on the Sandy relief bill? Hey politicians--it's called politics, and you suck at it.
    Is that the Sandy bill that has money for Alaskan fish farms or something of the sort? I'm sure the MSM will report what needs to be reported.

  16. #216

    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...3.html?hp=t1_7

    Okay. Maybe Boehner isn't all bad.
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  17. #217
    Glad we got a deal done - Obama left in the middle of the night to go back to Hawaii.

  18. #218

    Re: Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Originally Posted by SoonerSean03 View Post
    Glad we got a deal done - Obama left in the middle of the night to go back to Hawaii.
    No different than W going to Crawford. Wake me up when Obama spends a third of his time in office in vacay.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

  19. #219
    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    No different than W going to Crawford. Wake me up when Obama spends a third of his time in office in vacay.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    yet you seem to have a problem with W going to Crawford yet not with Obama and his vacations and golf. Double standard?

  20. #220
    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    I give him high marks for saying to Reid what everybody in this country wants to say to him.
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  21. #221
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    LOL...Go F*** yourself Reid.
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  22. #222
    Originally Posted by IndySooner View Post
    I listened to James Lankford make a ton of excuses and blame everyone but the House Republicans on a town hall the other day. He's a shady **** just like the rest of them.

    Here's all I know: I lose $400 of discretionary income per month starting tomorrow. That means I won't be buying two cars (was the plan), won't be paying off student loans early this year (was the plan) and won't be going to Disney World (was the plan). My guess is every one of you is making the same plans. That will stimulate the economy for sure!

    I don't give a flying **** whose fault this is. FIX IT NOW, then vote all of these ****s out!
    Now you can buy two cars, pay off student debts, and go to Disney World! All for the low low price of $400 a month!
    4 users like Yasiel Puig's post: KCRuf/Nek, pphilfran, SoonerLibertarian, Tundra


  23. #223
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    Originally Posted by Romulus View Post
    Now you can buy two cars, pay off student debts, and go to Disney World! All for the low low price of $400 a month!
    Lol...

  24. #224
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    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    yet you seem to have a problem with W going to Crawford yet not with Obama and his vacations and golf. Double standard?
    Don't forget the extra 5$ million in airfare not to mention security, staff, etc. One of the reasons Reagan and Bush stayed at their homes as opposed to padding their passports was so their staff and details could be with their families as much as possible during the holidays. Not so much here.

  25. #225
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    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    There was a post either last night or this morning that listed all the millions of dollars that could be cut and the areas that money could be cut from. Anyone know what thread it's in?

  26. #226
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    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Originally Posted by soonerprices View Post
    There was a post either last night or this morning that listed all the millions of dollars that could be cut and the areas that money could be cut from. Anyone know what thread it's in?
    Found it. thanks

  27. #227
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    So the Senate gets the 150+ page bill three minutes before voting. No one complains. Who's not surprised? Bunch of anklegrabbers.

  28. #228
    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    So the Senate gets the 150+ page bill three minutes before voting. No one complains. Who's not surprised? Bunch of anklegrabbers.
    If you think any Senator reads the entire text of any bill before casting a vote on it, then you are sadly mistaken.

  29. #229
    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    If you think any Senator reads the entire text of any bill before casting a vote on it, then you are sadly mistaken.
    Their staff does...or should...
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  30. #230
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    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    If you think any Senator reads the entire text of any bill before casting a vote on it, then you are sadly mistaken.
    None of them got a chance to read obamacare before it was passed.

  31. #231
    Originally Posted by Tundra View Post
    None of them got a chance to read obamacare before it was passed.
    That's because it didn't actually pass.
    2 users like playmakr's post: ltsooner, okie52


  32. #232
    Originally Posted by pphilfran View Post
    Their staff does...or should...
    Yes, the staffers read it or at least obtain summaries from others. They then brief their Congressman or Senator.

  33. #233
    Originally Posted by playmakr View Post
    That's because it didn't actually pass.
    Are you referring to the Affordable Care Act?

  34. #234
    US has been let down by its leadership

    By Nouriel Roubini
    The deal reached in Washington on New Year’s day prevented the US economy from falling off the so-called fiscal cliff. However, given the dysfunctional nature of the American political system, it won’t be long before there is another crisis.
    Two months, in fact. If no action is taken by March 1, $110bn of spending cuts will commence. At about the same time, the US will hit its statutory debt limit, known colloquially as the debt ceiling.
    That is only the beginning. Later in 2013, and not before time, a bigger debate on medium-term fiscal consolidation will begin. This will lead to another dispute between Republicans, who want to shrink the size of the federal government, and Democrats, who want to maintain it but are unsure how to pay for it.
    So expect a big fight about entitlements, and a series of little fights over tax reform: should the US introduce a value added tax? A flat tax? Higher (or lower) income taxes? A carbon tax? Should we close corporate tax loopholes to raise more revenue? It’ll soon get messy.
    President Barack Obama and his allies will argue that the deal concluded on Tuesday raises only $600bn of revenues over 10 years rather than their initial target of $1.4tn – and therefore there is further room for tax rises, at least for the wealthy. Republicans will argue that spending should now be radically cut, since this week’s deal did not address that side of the national balance sheet. (Even the 2011 debt ceiling deal reduced prospective spending by $1tn).
    In the meantime, the likely fiscal adjustment in 2013 will be about 1.4 per cent of gross domestic product. (Spread between the expiry of the payroll tax cut, the increase in the tax rates of the rich, and some eventual cuts to spending.)
    This translates into a 1.2 per cent of GDP drag on the economy during the year. If the economy was happily growing above trend – at say 3.5 per cent – that would not be such a big deal, as growth would still be above 2 per cent. In the past few quarters growth already averaged about 2 per cent. So the US could quite easily come perilously close to stall speed this year – or worse, if the eurozone crisis worsens.
    The longer-term picture is bleaker still. The reality is that America is yet to wake up to the full extent of its fiscal nightmare. Even the typical Republican voter is not – being on average older and poorer than a Democrat voter – in favour of gutting the welfare state. Tea Party extremists are more noise than signal. That is why the plans of Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan, the Republicans’ losing presidential ticket, postponed all the tough spending cuts on Social Security and Medicare by a decade.
    Neither Democrats nor Republicans recognise that maintaining a basic welfare state, which is right and necessary in our age of globalisation, rapid technological change and demographic pressure, implies higher taxes for the middle class as well as for the rich. A deal that extends unsustainable tax cuts for 98 per cent of Americans is therefore a pyrrhic victory for Mr Obama.
    For now, he is being helped by the quiescent financial markets. It will probably take years for the US to confront the reality of its fiscal position and raise revenues to a level sufficient to fund a reformed – but not gutted – welfare state. Large fiscal deficits will remain the norm for the next few years, at least so long as the bond market remains quiet, as I believe it will.
    Bond market “vigilantes” have no appetite for destruction. Why should they? Growth is low and inflation lower; the US still has the global reserve currency; US Treasuries remain haven assets; interest rates are at zero; the US Federal Reserve is committed to QE; and China and other emerging economies will keep accruing US dollars to resist appreciations in their own currencies. All this guarantees the cheap financing of the US deficit for years to come. But eventually, the vigilantes will wake up.
    In short, the “mini deal” on the fiscal cliff dodged all the important questions. By not including spending cuts in the deal, the Democrats have emboldened Republicans who are determined to slash taxes but lack a plan to pay for it. It is again up to Washington’s policy makers to fix the problem before the market does it for them. Tuesday’s deal suggests this will not happen with any ease.

    The writer is chairman of Roubini Global Economics and a professor at the Stern School of Business, New York University

  35. #235
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    No meaningful gun control legislation will make it to Obama's desk.

    I think some of you guys are missing important factors on what just happened. Bush tax cuts were set to expire. The 2nd amendment is not set to expire.

  36. #236
    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    Are you referring to the Affordable Care Act?
    Yes.

  37. #237
    Originally Posted by playmakr View Post
    Yes.
    . . . and you don't think that it passed?

  38. #238

    Re: Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    . . . and you don't think that it passed?
    He's one of "those" guys who thinks 0bam4 is a dictator.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

  39. #239

    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Originally Posted by Tundra View Post
    None of them got a chance to read obamacare before it was passed.
    That's because there's a Constitutional Amendment banning cruel and unusual punishment.
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  40. #240
    . . . and you don't think that it passed?
    ...I think passing that type of bill with such breadth and scope using reconciliation is borderline illegal, so, no.

    Congress for far too long has stretched the budgetary use of reconciliation way beyond it's intent. The problem isn't party specific, but this was by far the worst offender.

    ...

    He's one of "those" guys who thinks 0bam4 is a dictator.
    Obama isn't in Congress anymore, and you don't know me from Adam.

  41. #241

  42. #242
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    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    If you think any Senator reads the entire text of any bill before casting a vote on it, then you are sadly mistaken.
    If they're going to vote on it then they should know what's in it. Even if their aids read it - five aids, 30 pages each, an hour to brief the senator. No excuse for not reading it.
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  43. #243
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    For now, he is being helped by the quiescent financial markets. It will probably take years for the US to confront the reality of its fiscal position and raise revenues to a level sufficient to fund a reformed – but not gutted – welfare state. Large fiscal deficits will remain the norm for the next few years, at least so long as the bond market remains quiet, as I believe it will.

    Bond market “vigilantes” have no appetite for destruction. Why should they? Growth is low and inflation lower; the US still has the global reserve currency; US Treasuries remain haven assets; interest rates are at zero; the US Federal Reserve is committed to QE; and China and other emerging economies will keep accruing US dollars to resist appreciations in their own currencies. All this guarantees the cheap financing of the US deficit for years to come. But eventually, the vigilantes will wake up.

    In short, the “mini deal” on the fiscal cliff dodged all the important questions. By not including spending cuts in the deal, the Democrats have emboldened Republicans who are determined to slash taxes but lack a plan to pay for it. It is again up to Washington’s policy makers to fix the problem before the market does it for them. Tuesday’s deal suggests this will not happen with any ease.
    Fantastic summation of what's going on.

    However, while Roubini could certainly be correct on all fronts, I think he misses the mark here. The problem for the US has never been the amount of debt we owe to foreign markets, nor is the problem for the dollar the strength of the Euro or Yuan or any other competing currencies. The problem for the US is going to be the amount of debt we owe to ourselves and the erosion of domestic trust in our own currency. The dollar will remain the world's reserve currency because there is as much distrust in the Euro and Yuan domestically as there will be in the dollar.

    The real issue is that currency on a global level could start failing to pay for the most pressing needs like food and shelter due to inflation in those markets

    Furthermore, as far as the US is concerned, when we can neither foot the bill for retired folk nor supply them jobs to sustain themselves is when we're going to find out the real problem with expecting a over indebted government to bail us out via Social Security.

    The longer we Quantitatively "Ease" the economy the more damage we levy against the dollar domestically, especially when the economy is not actually growing in the first place.

  44. #244

    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Originally Posted by nocalsooner View Post
    No meaningful gun control legislation will make it to Obama's desk.

    I think some of you guys are missing important factors on what just happened. Bush tax cuts were set to expire. The 2nd amendment is not set to expire.
    I like your phrasing here. This is well put.

  45. #245
    Originally Posted by playmakr View Post
    ...I think passing that type of bill with such breadth and scope using reconciliation is borderline illegal, so, no.
    Given that the ACA was passed by the House and the Senate, signed into law by the President and held to be constitutional by the Supreme Court, it seems that you live in a different reality than most.

  46. #246
    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    Given that the ACA was passed by the House and the Senate, signed into law by the President and held to be constitutional by the Supreme Court, it seems that you live in a different reality than most.
    This statement doesn't even make any sense in the context of what I said, as if I'm saying it isn't currently law.

    I've forgotten more than you will ever know about the bill and its effect on the Heathcare industry, particularly for hospitals. It's essentially what I've been doing for hours upon hours, meetings upon meetings, presentation upon presentation for my company and others the past 3 years. I'm fully aware of the bill.

  47. #247
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    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Originally Posted by playmakr View Post
    This statement doesn't even make any sense in the context of what I said, as if I'm saying it isn't currently law.

    I've forgotten more than you will ever know about the bill and its effect on the Heathcare industry, particularly for hospitals. It's essentially what I've been doing for hours upon hours, meetings upon meetings, presentation upon presentation for my company and others the past 3 years. I'm fully aware of the bill.
    I like you! No homo! You always have very well thought out and informative posts. Even if you put me in my place more often than not.

  48. #248
    You're funny, Nole.

  49. #249

    Re: Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Just got my first pay check for the year. SS tax went up as expected. Federal withholding went down which was not expected. Especially since I got a raise.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

  50. #250
    Originally Posted by playmakr View Post
    This statement doesn't even make any sense in the context of what I said, as if I'm saying it isn't currently law.

    I've forgotten more than you will ever know about the bill and its effect on the Heathcare industry, particularly for hospitals. It's essentially what I've been doing for hours upon hours, meetings upon meetings, presentation upon presentation for my company and others the past 3 years. I'm fully aware of the bill.
    Yes, yes, I'm sure you're brilliant, have a net worth that would make Mitt Romney envious and are cited regularly in the New England Journal of Medicine as an authority on all things medical. Even with all of your impressive accomplishments, however, you stated earlier in this thread that the ACA "didn't actually pass" and that its manner of passage was "borderline illegal." Could you please now display your amazing legal skills you obtained when you graduated at the top of your class at Yale Law School, clerked for former Chief Justice Rehnquist and then became a partner in the New York office of Skadden Arps and cite the relevant law or laws that confirm that (i) the ACA "didn't actually pass" and (ii) its manner of passage was either "illegal" or "borderline illegal?"
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