Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

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  1. #1

    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    After winning re-election, Obama feels he has a populist mandate and refuses to compromise.

    Boehner is compromising and has agreed to effectively raise taxes by $800B by closing loopholes and deductions. Obama refuses to compromise by not being specific or serious about spending cuts. He insists upon playing Robin Hood and demanding the rich pay more.

    Boehner may very well lose his Speaker position because of attempting to compromise with Obama, and he knows it. The president refuses to budge and he may take the economy off the cliff and us along with it. Perhaps he reallly does want people like me to give up on my small business which kept me off unemployment and start living off the government. That's what might just happen if the economy tanks again.

    Gracias, El Presidente.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...cliff/1766559/

  2. #2
    Which "loopholes" and deductions is Boehner proposing to repeal?

  3. #3
    If you dont think a cut in spending is coming, youre crazy. I know for a fact its coming, fiscal cliff or not.

  4. #4
    Sooner Bob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bruthaman View Post
    If you dont think a cut in spending is coming, youre crazy. I know for a fact its coming, fiscal cliff or not.
    And you know this how?

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    And you know this how?
    Its my business to know. I have to adjust accordingly and its going to happen. The President is going to cut spending and we have known it for over a year already. So, the republicans saying they want to cut spending may be saying they wont MORE than is already going to happen, but they cant say he isnt going to cut it and be truthful. Its just more political bullcrap.

  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by bruthaman View Post
    Its my business to know. I have to adjust accordingly and its going to happen. The President is going to cut spending and we have known it for over a year already. So, the republicans saying they want to cut spending may be saying they wont MORE than is already going to happen, but they cant say he isnt going to cut it and be truthful. Its just more political bullcrap.
    Ok . . . over the last two fiscal years we have had to cut various parts of our spending, but overall have received a budget increase.

    What is he going to actually cut? Has he provided a list of what he sees as something that can be removed from various budgets?

    How is he planning to pay for his proposed $60 billion aid package for Hurricane Sandy victims?

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Ok . . . over the last two fiscal years we have had to cut various parts of our spending, but overall have received a budget increase.

    What is he going to actually cut? Has he provided a list of what he sees as something that can be removed from various budgets?

    How is he planning to pay for his proposed $60 billion aid package for Hurricane Sandy victims?
    Dont know about the Sandy money. There is a list though but I dont know if I am supposed to show you. I will see if I can or not.

  8. #8

    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Originally Posted by bruthaman View Post
    Dont know about the Sandy money. There is a list though but I dont know if I am supposed to show you. I will see if I can or not.
    DoD cuts? Those aren't done by the Pres. That stupid super committee set that nonsense up. Until cuts are proposed that can reasonably bring our deficit to 0 over time, this is all political. Personally, I think Boehner should lose his Speakership if he compromises on tax increases without real, substantial cuts.

  9. #9
    Yes, there are military cuts coming...500 billion over ten years....this has been established for some time...we now face additional cuts due to the deficit talks...

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1234761.html

    WASHINGTON, Jan 26 (Reuters) - The Pentagon unveiled a 2013 budget plan that would cut $487 billion in spending over the next decade by eliminating nearly 100,000 ground troops, mothballing ships and trimming air squadrons in a bid to create a smaller, agile force with a new strategic focus.

    The funding request, which includes painful cuts that will be felt across the country, comes at a historic turning point for the military as it winds down 10 years of war in Afghanistan and Iraq and shifts its strategic focus to the Asia-Pacific region and the Middle East.

    The budget plan, sharply criticized by some lawmakers, sets the stage for a new struggle between President Barack Obama's administration and Congress over how much the Pentagon should spend on national security as the country tries to curb its trillion-dollar budget deficits.

    "Make no mistake, the savings that we are proposing will impact all 50 states and many districts, congressional districts across America," Defense Secretary Leon Panetta told a news conference at the Pentagon on Thursday.

    he 2013 budget is Panetta's first as defense secretary and is the first to take into account the Budget Control Act passed by Congress in August that requires the Pentagon to cut $487 billion in projected spending over the next decade.

    The budget plan does not take into account an additional $600 billion in defense cuts that could be required after Congress failed to pass a compromise agreement to cut government spending by $1.2 trillion. The Pentagon could face cuts of another $50 billion a year, starting in 2013, unless Congress changes the law.

    more at link

  10. #10
    Aurora's Avatar
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    800 billion in taxes is spent by the government in 4 days so I am not sure what any of the dems are thinking we accomplish. We have to cut spending, stop touching SSI and medicaid or stop taking that money from people, we have to reform welfare and food stamps, we have to fix O care to actually work and be constitutional and not so costly, we have to stop spending money on war and ridiculous drones and war planes... we have to cut some government jobs and get private sector jobs back and we have to work towards creating our own energy in the short term with oil and gas and the long term with wind, solar and other biofuels -- all of which can add private sector jobs. We have to tax imports at a fair rate making American products more competitive =(

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Aurora View Post
    800 billion in taxes is spent by the government in 4 days so I am not sure what any of the dems are thinking we accomplish. We have to cut spending, stop touching SSI and medicaid or stop taking that money from people, we have to reform welfare and food stamps, we have to fix O care to actually work and be constitutional and not so costly, we have to stop spending money on war and ridiculous drones and war planes... we have to cut some government jobs and get private sector jobs back and we have to work towards creating our own energy in the short term with oil and gas and the long term with wind, solar and other biofuels -- all of which can add private sector jobs. We have to tax imports at a fair rate making American products more competitive =(
    No...just short of 10 billion a day....

  12. #12
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    Why are so many conservatives against the fiscal cliff? It represents the largest cut in spending in our nation's history.

    DoD cuts are the easy target right now.

  13. #13
    The closer we get the more nervous the markets are going to be....

    It shows us that our leadership is incompetent when dealing with finance....

    Automatic cuts and added taxation will kick in unless some sort or emergency plan is implemented...and if they have to go to some emergency plan to resolve something they have known was coming for a year furthers the distrust the populace and business have with our DC leadership...

  14. #14
    Aurora's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pphilfran View Post
    No...just short of 10 billion a day....
    well it seems like I read a higher number, however at 10 billion a day 800 billion is still not that much. =(

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Aurora View Post
    well it seems like I read a higher number, however at 10 billion a day 800 billion is still not that much. =(
    I am not sure of the 800 billion you are referencing but I imagine it is 800 billion over 10 years...and most of the saving will come at the end with very little at the front...

  16. #16
    Aurora's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pphilfran View Post
    I am not sure of the 800 billion you are referencing but I imagine it is 800 billion over 10 years...and most of the saving will come at the end with very little at the front...
    this
    Boehner is compromising and has agreed to effectively raise taxes by $800B
    and essentially it is a drop in the bucket for our debt problem

  17. #17
    Yep...10 years...

    Though raising taxes in our slow economy is questionable in my opinion...cutting spending and raising taxes in not going to help GDP growth and GDP growth is the ultimate answer not taxation or reduced spending...
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  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Aurora View Post
    this and essentially it is a drop in the bucket for our debt problem
    Yes, you're absolutely right. And the $!.6T Obama wants is essentially two drops in the bucket. That's why he is a Populist.

  19. #19
    Aurora's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pphilfran View Post
    Yep...10 years...

    Though raising taxes in our slow economy is questionable in my opinion...cutting spending and raising taxes in not going to help GDP growth and GDP growth is the ultimate answer not taxation or reduced spending...
    Honestly taxation is never the answer, at least not in the current state of taxation.
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by pphilfran View Post
    I am not sure of the 800 billion you are referencing but I imagine it is 800 billion over 10 years...and most of the saving will come at the end with very little at the front...
    As always, the spending is right now and the cuts are "in ten years". Unfortunately the people in power "in ten years" are in no way beholden to those cuts. In short, they never happen.

    Boehner is a total ****. He needs to go. He's been grabbing his ankles for years.
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  21. #21

    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Why are so many conservatives against the fiscal cliff? It represents the largest cut in spending in our nation's history.

    DoD cuts are the easy target right now.
    Because cutting military spending when we are in a war, running drones non stop and it appears we are about to enter another war in Syria is idiotic.

    Also, cutting the military and cranking up taxes isn't going to fix the economy and some of us care about that.

  22. #22
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    Because cutting military spending when we are in a war, running drones non stop and it appears we are about to enter another war in Syria is idiotic.

    Also, cutting the military and cranking up taxes isn't going to fix the economy and some of us care about that.
    Sounds like the republican congress should get to work on swaying the senate.

  23. #23

    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Sounds like the republican congress should get to work on swaying the senate.
    The only way to get anything done would be removal of Reid. That's not happening. So we're stuck.

  24. #24
    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    The only way to get anything done would be removal of Reid. That's not happening. So we're stuck.
    That would help, but there are a lot of Reid/Pelosi disciples among the Dem ranks. Speaking of Pelosi, I don't care what your political affiliation is, you have to agree that woman is bat-shit crazy.
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  25. #25
    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    Which "loopholes" and deductions is Boehner proposing to repeal?
    Anyone?

  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    Anyone?
    I'm not a tax guy so I really don't know the specifics. I do know that many deductions were written in the tax code to help out the regular guy. I know the left loves to use "loopholes" because it sounds mdeceitful and like the rich are getting away with something. Limiting deductions won't hurt the rich. They'll hurt the regular guy - you know, BHO's beloved middle class that he could care less about. Think of the homeowner that can write off his usual deductions anymore and instead of paying taxes on 70K it's now 90K(Made up numbers. Don't know if they are accurate. Remember, I'm not a tax guy). Those extra taxes might make the difference in him making and losing money, keeping his house, etc. That's how I feel about it. Closing these deductions won't make a bit of difference in the debt. It's just another way to try to punish the successful.

    STOP SPENDING MONEY!!!

  27. #27
    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    I'm not a tax guy so I really don't know the specifics. I do know that many deductions were written in the tax code to help out the regular guy. I know the left loves to use "loopholes" because it sounds mdeceitful and like the rich are getting away with something. Limiting deductions won't hurt the rich. They'll hurt the regular guy - you know, BHO's beloved middle class that he could care less about. Think of the homeowner that can write off his usual deductions anymore and instead of paying taxes on 70K it's now 90K(Made up numbers. Don't know if they are accurate. Remember, I'm not a tax guy). Those extra taxes might make the difference in him making and losing money, keeping his house, etc. That's how I feel about it. Closing these deductions won't make a bit of difference in the debt. It's just another way to try to punish the successful.

    STOP SPENDING MONEY!!!
    First, that's one awesome rant but, just to be clear, Boehner freely uses the term "loopholes." (So do other Republicans.)

    House Speaker John Boehner's fiscal-cliff proposal purports to raise $1.6 trillion in revenue by "clos[ing] special-interest loopholes and deductions while lowering rates."
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/...0#.UMvY4Rw9UcM

    Second, my question above is whether someone can identify any of those loopholes and deductions that Boehner is talking about cutting. Can you identify any?

  28. #28
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    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    First, that's one awesome rant but, just to be clear, Boehner freely uses the term "loopholes." (So do other Republicans.)
    Well he's a liberal so why wouldn't he?

  29. #29
    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    Well he's a liberal so why wouldn't he?
    Coburn does, too. So does Limbaugh. So does Paul Ryan Are they liberals?

    Now on to my other question, which I've asked several times in this thread: Can you identify any of those loopholes and deductions that Boehner is talking about cutting?

  30. #30
    .
    Last edited by soonerintn; July 20th, 2013 at 01:20 AM.

  31. #31
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    Originally Posted by soonerintn View Post
    If it isn't going to get cut, then boehner is a fool to name specifics in public if the deal isn't already in place.
    Why is that?

    We have a horrible problem re: communication with our representatives. At least he could give out some information. Right now its just OU/texas, and nobody is going to root for the other side without some kind of information.

    Republicans are going to have to get the same balls as Dems had when passing healthcare...do what you believe is best for the country regardless of a possible loss in future elections. They alone have the power to avoid the automatic cuts and increases if giving up a bunch of what they believe hurts their constituents by any amount less than the cliff, they are obligated to do it.. It sucks, but that is the way it is.

    This is essentially the same argument that many conservatives threw at Libertarians re:no vote is a vote for Obama.
    No compromised action is an endorsement of the cliff.

  32. #32
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    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    Coburn does, too. So does Limbaugh. So does Paul Ryan Are they liberals?

    Now on to my other question, which I've asked several times in this thread: Can you identify any of those loopholes and deductions that Boehner is talking about cutting?
    Well I told you I can't. Do you think asking 15 times makes you sound smarter?

  33. #33
    .
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    Last edited by soonerintn; July 20th, 2013 at 01:19 AM.

  34. #34
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    Originally Posted by soonerintn View Post
    Why? Because if you say you want to cut X, you piss off citizen X whether you cut it or not. It will be used against at your next election whether you cut it or not. Need to make sure it is a deal that Obama signs off on so it doesn't come back against you.

    Hell, Romney and Ryan gave specifics on Medicare and Ryan actually had a budget. They got torn apart for having a plan.
    That whole tossing granny off the cliff.

  35. #35
    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    Well I told you I can't. Do you think asking 15 times makes you sound smarter?
    Settle down, Beavis. You or anyone else in this thread can answer. So far, no one can identify a single loophole or deduction that Boehner is proposing to be cut.

  36. #36
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    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    Settle down, Beavis. You or anyone else in this thread can answer. So far, no one can identify a single loophole or deduction that Boehner is proposing to be cut.
    You do this on every thread you post. You huff and puff for pages because no one stopped their lives to answer your question. Why don't you ****ing answer it? You're the one that needs a little blue pill.

  37. #37
    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    Settle down, Beavis. You or anyone else in this thread can answer. So far, no one can identify a single loophole or deduction that Boehner is proposing to be cut.
    Hell, no...he, or any pub that I know of, have given any specifics...

    Both sides stink...

    The Dems want to raise taxes on the rich so they can pull in 40 billion a year or so in added revenue....what a farce...what spending cuts do the dems propose (outside of military spending that is already getting a 50 billion or so hit)

    Getting the economy moving will help with both revenue and spending...and if we don't get the economy moving then all the tax increases imaginable won't help a bit...

  38. #38
    I really like Romney's plan to limit overall deductions..everybody gets 20 or 30 or 40k in deductions...you can use them for your mortgage interest...for charitable...dependents...just keep the current list of allowable deductions...

    You won't step on any toes with this method...the tax payer gets to choose....

    The higher income folks get the biggest hit while the lower income folks don't lose squat...

  39. #39
    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    You do this on every thread you post. You huff and puff for pages because no one stopped their lives to answer your question. Why don't you ****ing answer it? You're the one that needs a little blue pill.
    Hilarious. One of my all-time favorite posts on this board.

    P.S. It's "[Y]ou're the one who . . ." and not "[Y]ou're the one that . . ."

  40. #40
    Originally Posted by pphilfran View Post
    Hell, no...he, or any pub that I know of, have given any specifics...

    Both sides stink...

    The Dems want to raise taxes on the rich so they can pull in 40 billion a year or so in added revenue....what a farce...what spending cuts do the dems propose (outside of military spending that is already getting a 50 billion or so hit)

    Getting the economy moving will help with both revenue and spending...and if we don't get the economy moving then all the tax increases imaginable won't help a bit...
    Thank you for your answer and, yes, I agree with you that both sides stink.

  41. #41
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    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    Hilarious. One of my all-time favorite posts on this board.

    P.S. It's "[Y]ou're the one who . . ." and not "[Y]ou're the one that . . ."
    P.S.S. [S]uck [m]y [d]ick. Proper grammar and diction don't help you(or is it who?) when you're an idiot.
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  42. #42

  43. #43
    Your move, Mr. President. Boehner is compromising ... let's see you do the same:

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...sal/?hpt=po_c1

    CNN sources: Fiscal cliff talks centered on GOP $2 trillion proposal


    Posted by
    CNN Senior Congressional Producer Deirdre Walsh and CNN Senior Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash

    Washington (CNN) – President Obama and House Speaker Boehner are discussing a $2 trillion framework on a deal to avert the fiscal cliff, that would include roughly a trillion in tax increases and roughly a trillion in savings from entitlement programs, multiple sources familiar with the talks tell CNN.

    Boehner and the president met in person on Monday, but sources familiar with the talks indicate that the framework under discussion is what Republicans are pushing to get to agreement, but it's unclear whether the make up of the $2 trillion framework could get support from Democrats.

    – Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker

    Democratic sources tell CNN part of the issue now is that the trillion in spending cuts comes from some changes to entitlement programs such as reforms to Medicare – along with a discussion of raising the eligibility age. These Democratic sources say it is unclear if those Medicare changes could pass the House or Senate, because they may be too deep for many Democrats.

    Pushing the talks to a new stage, Speaker Boehner relented over the weekend on his opposition to any tax rate increases, and proposed that tax rates be allowed to go up on those making a million or more per year. In addition to new revenue from the wealthy, Boehner is also proposing closing some tax loopholes and limiting some deductions. As he has in previous offers, the speaker is also pushing for the White House to agree to change the way inflation is adjusted for federal benefits like Social Security.

    The plan under discussion now also includes an increase in the debt limit for some period of time – potentially a year. But an aide to Boehner notes that this part of the agreement is contingent on the size of the spending cuts – the speaker remains committed to his rule that the cuts and reforms have to be greater than any increase in the debt ceiling.

    Another key outstanding issue is the kind of tax revenue they could agree to. Boehner's weekend offer of rate increases for the wealthiest Americans proposed increases for families making a million dollars or more a year. But the president campaigned on raising tax rates for families making more than $250 thousand a year, so the White House rejected that offer. Still – the fact that the House speaker offered any increase in tax rates, which he and most Republicans oppose, was greeted as progress at the White House, according to Democratic sources.

    All sides caution this is still highly fluid, and even the overall $2 trillion framework could change.

  44. #44
    Originally Posted by ltsooner View Post
    Your move, Mr. President. Boehner is compromising ... let's see you do the same:
    Looks as though Obama takes your advice:

    http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-oba...--finance.html

  45. #45
    Originally Posted by Sinatra View Post
    Looks as though Obama takes your advice:

    http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-oba...--finance.html
    Interesting ... cautiously optimistic about this report. At least it seems both men are indicating they are, indeed, ready to get this thing solved. Thanks for the link.

  46. #46
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    White House rejects another compromise...
    I'm shocked. The party of NO.
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  47. #47

    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Republican representatives only give a shit about rich white men. Good job House. You couldn't even approve a plan the president wouldn't sign.

  48. #48
    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    Republican representatives only give a shit about rich white men. Good job House. You couldn't even approve a plan the president wouldn't sign.
    Sadly, they couldn't even approve a bill that their own leadership proposed.
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  49. #49

    Re: Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who

    It's gonna be epic when the tax rates go up on all of us at the end of the year and then Obama gets to beg congress to lower taxes on the middle class.

  50. #50

    Fiscal Cliff ... Who is Compromising? (Guess who is NOT)

    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    Republican representatives only give a shit about rich white men. Good job House. You couldn't even approve a plan the president wouldn't sign.
    They've passed several plans the Senate wouldn't even debate. Passing something the Pres won't sign is pointless at this stage. Perhaps the question to be asked is what compromise the Pres would sign.

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