Gun Laws

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  1. #1151
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    http://www.kpho.com/story/20549134/v...s-over-product

    SCOTTSDALE, AZ (CBS5) - A local gun manufacturer says Bank of America withheld nearly $100,000 worth of deposits because of what he is selling.
    Joseph Sirochman owns American Spirit Arms in Scottsdale. The company manufactures high-end rifles like the AR15, M16 Rifle and M4 Carbine.

    "Everything is American made, even down to the metal that we buy," said Sirochman.

    "It's melted and manufactured in the USA. We're an American company. Made in American for Americans," he continued.

    In mid-December, after the shooting in Connecticut and as talks heated up about a possible assault rifle ban, American Spirit Arms' e-commerce sales skyrocketed.

    "Our internet sales started to increase. The deposits really spiked. We basically got five times our normal deposit was coming from our e-commerce site," recalled Sirochman.

    However, the CEO and owner of the company said he quickly noticed deposits were not showing up in his company's accounts, so he called Bank of America, with which he had been doing business with for about a decade.

    "Bank of America decided to put those deposits under review. We are a small business sand we rely on those deposits, but the review was only supposed to be 48 hours - 48 hours started to turn into two weeks. (Those holds were) not good for a small business that needs the cash flow to actually run its own business," said Sirochman.

    Sirochman called the bank's Merchant Services Department and was eventually connected to a manager. Sirochman said she told him "We believe you shouldn't be selling guns and parts on the internet."

    He posted the ordeal on his company's Facebook page, and after the post went viral, Sirochman said Bank of America released the funds. He says he believes the bank did not want to support a company with a controversial product.

    "(Bank of America held the funds) because we are a firearms manufacturer, and that is in the political spotlight and they had a chance to slow us down," Sirochman said.

    "We have all the proper licensing. We follow all the rules and regulations. We're audited by the ATF. We're visited by Homeland Security on a very normal basis," he continued.

    CBS 5 reached out to Bank of America multiple times for comment, but our calls and emails have not been returned.

    Sirochman has since moved his business to a local bank.

  2. #1152
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    <b>
    http://www.usacarry.com/bank-of-amer...arms-business/

    McMillan Fiberglass Stocks, McMillan Firearms Manufacturing, McMillan Group International have been collectively banking with Bank of America for 12 years. Today Mr. Ray Fox, Senior Vice President, Market Manager, Business Banking, Global Commercial Banking came to my office. He scheduled the meeting as an “account analysis” meeting in order to evaluate the two lines of credit we have with them. He spent 5 minutes talking about how McMillan has changed in the last 5 years and have become more of a firearms manufacturer than a supplier of accessories.

    At this point I interrupted him and asked “Can I possible save you some time so that you don’t waste your breath? What you are going to tell me is that because we are in the firearms manufacturing business you no longer what my business.”

    “That is correct” he says.

    I replied “That is okay, we will move our accounts as soon as possible. We can find a 2nd Amendment friendly bank that will be glad to have our business. You won’t mind if I tell the NRA, SCI and everyone one I know that BofA is not firearms industry friendly?”

    “You have to do what you must” he said.

    “So you are telling me this is a politically motivated decision, is that right?”
    Mr Fox confirmed that it was. At which point I told him that the meeting was over and there was nothing let for him to say.

    I think it is import for all Americans who believe in and support our 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms should know when a business does not support these rights. What you do with that knowledge is up to you. When I don’t agree with a business’ political position I can not in good conscience support them. We will soon no longer be accepting Bank of America credit cards as payment for our products.

    Kelly D McMillan
    Director of Operations
    McMillan Group International, LLC
    623-582-9635
    www.mcmillanusa.com
    </b>

  3. #1153
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    Dangit . . . I just financed a vehicle through BoA. I guess I need to see if USAA can beat their interest rate.
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  4. #1154
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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Dangit . . . I just financed a vehicle through BoA. I guess I need to see if USAA can beat their interest rate.
    No shit. My mortgage is with those ****s.

  5. #1155

    Re: Gun Laws

    Another side to look at it is that their merchant account had unusual activity (major spike in sales) which started the hold process.
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  6. #1156
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    Originally Posted by ArbySooner View Post
    Another side to look at it is that their merchant account had unusual activity (major spike in sales) which started the hold process.
    From the articles:

    Sirochman called the bank's Merchant Services Department and was eventually connected to a manager. Sirochman said she told him "We believe you shouldn't be selling guns and parts on the internet."

    At this point I interrupted him and asked “Can I possible save you some time so that you don’t waste your breath? What you are going to tell me is that because we are in the firearms manufacturing business you no longer what my business.”

    “That is correct” he says.


    There is no other way to look at it.
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  7. #1157
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    Originally Posted by Lake_Bum View Post
    No shit. My mortgage is with those ****s.
    Mine too.. and I had no say in the matter. My mortgage was sold to them.

  8. #1158

    Re: Gun Laws

    The free market. Aren't banks allowed to deal with whoever they want?

    I closed my bank account with BOA when they crashed the economy and then asked for help from their buddies on Capital Hill and switched to USAA.
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  9. #1159
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    Gun Laws

    I voted for Barry, but I have a feeling he's about to make me regret with this gun stuff he's about to shove in our ****s.

    Don't make me feel like a douche for voting for you, barry.

  10. #1160
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    Gun Laws

    I remember when Wikileaks was going to release damning info on BoA. Then he never did. I wonder how much they wired him.

  11. #1161

    Re: Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by Nazgul View Post
    I voted for Barry, but I have a feeling he's about to make me regret with this gun stuff he's about to shove in our ****s.

    Don't make me feel like a douche for voting for you, barry.
    Likely the executive actions are completely legal. Enhanced background checks and things like that.

    The law doesn't even exist in either body of Congress so he can't just outright start banning shit.

  12. #1162
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    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    The free market. Aren't banks allowed to deal with whoever they want?

    Did anyone suggest otherwise? What goes on inside your head is so far from reality that it is like a train wreck to watch you post sometimes.
    You see, normal people think differently than you do. When another party does something they dont care for they dont immediately think "Im going to get the government to force them to do what I want at gunpoint!" like you do. So the idea of "free market. Banks are allowed to deal with whoever they want" isnt a **** radical revelation to them the way is to you.

  13. #1163
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    Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    Likely the executive actions are completely legal. Enhanced background checks and things like that.

    The law doesn't even exist in either body of Congress so he can't just outright start banning shit.
    I have no problem with enhanced background checks, or safety classes. So on so forth.

  14. #1164

    Re: Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
    Did anyone suggest otherwise? What goes on inside your head is so far from reality that it is like a train wreck to watch you post sometimes.
    You see, normal people think differently than you do. When another party does something they dont care for they dont immediately think "Im going to get the government to force them to do what I want at gunpoint!" like you do. So the idea of "free market. Banks are allowed to deal with whoever they want" isnt a **** radical revelation to them the way is to you.

    This is all I see when you post.

  15. #1165

    Re: Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    From the articles:

    Sirochman called the bank's Merchant Services Department and was eventually connected to a manager. Sirochman said she told him "We believe you shouldn't be selling guns and parts on the internet."

    At this point I interrupted him and asked “Can I possible save you some time so that you don’t waste your breath? What you are going to tell me is that because we are in the firearms manufacturing business you no longer what my business.”

    “That is correct” he says.


    There is no other way to look at it.
    I doubt that is what started the initial hold and or investigation.
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  16. #1166

    Re: Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by Nazgul View Post
    I have no problem with enhanced background checks, or safety classes. So on so forth.
    Politico speculated this is the case and pointed to a very recent Pew Research poll show 86% of Americans favor enhanced measures like background checks.

    I highly doubt we will see a dictatorial outright ban on anything with a middle finger given to Congress. We haven't seen it in the past four years, I doubt we start seeing it now.
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  17. #1167
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    Originally Posted by Nazgul View Post
    I have no problem with enhanced background checks, or safety classes. So on so forth.
    The background check doesn't bother me at all . . . I'd settle for a minor change in allowing a single background check/form if more than one gun was bought during a single transaction. One check/form per gun is crazy.

    Proof of completing a safety class for each gun purchase or the current requirements for the classes to get various permits?

  18. #1168
    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    The background check doesn't bother me at all . . . I'd settle for a minor change in allowing a single background check/form if more than one gun was bought during a single transaction. One check/form per gun is crazy.

    Proof of completing a safety class for each gun purchase or the current requirements for the classes to get various permits?
    Bob, I witnessed a woman buy four hunting rifles at Bass Pro in OKC the night before Thanksgiving and she only had to do one. The reason I know this is I was buying a rifle also and waiting for her to use the laptop for the NCIS questionaire and was told by the salesman that she only had to complete the one for all four guns she purchased.
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  19. #1169
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    Originally Posted by kingswitz View Post
    Bob, I witnessed a woman buy four hunting rifles at Bass Pro in OKC the night before Thanksgiving and she only had to do one. The reason I know this is I was buying a rifle also and waiting for her to use the laptop for the NCIS questionaire and was told by the salesman that she only had to complete the one for all four guns she purchased.
    Nice. The guy at Academy in Edmond said I'd have to do one form/gun. Might just be their policy.

    Guess I'll look at Bass Pro next.
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  20. #1170
    I originally thought the same thing (one form per gun).

  21. #1171
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    Originally Posted by ArbySooner View Post
    Another side to look at it is that their merchant account had unusual activity (major spike in sales) which started the hold process.
    Or a realistic inquiry as to whether their practices were lawful.

    Nothing to see here.

  22. #1172

    Gun Laws

    Why is he signing executive orders riding the wave from Hook that would have 0 impact on what happened at Hook?

  23. #1173
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    Why is he signing executive orders riding the wave from Hook that would have 0 impact on what happened at Hook?
    That is my problem with the whole deal..

    I don't have a problem with background checks on private sales...but the shooter didn't own the guns...

    I don't have a problem with limited magazine capacity...but the shooter changed mags several times anyway...with no one else in possession of a weapon the mag size means little....

    "Assault" rifle bans? Hell, less than 350 are killed by any type rifle in a normal year...

    We will have all kinds of crap crammed down our throats and we will still have mass shootings then what are they going to attempt to cram down our throat?

    All I own is shotguns and one rifle...
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  24. #1174
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    Why is he signing executive orders riding the wave from Hook that would have 0 impact on what happened at Hook?
    It's now 23 EO's according to Drudge.

  25. #1175
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    The following is a list, provided by the White House, of executive actions President Obama plans to take to address gun violence.
    1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
    2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
    3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
    4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
    5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
    6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
    7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
    8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
    9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
    10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
    11. Nominate an ATF director.
    12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
    13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
    14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
    15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
    16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
    17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
    18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
    19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
    20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
    21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
    22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
    23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...#ixzz2I9xEWuk5

  26. #1176
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    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    It's now 23 EO's according to Drudge.
    He's signed 23 up to now?


    EDIT - posted after kruk's post.

  27. #1177
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    Originally Posted by kruk View Post
    The following is a list, provided by the White House, of executive actions President Obama plans to take to address gun violence.
    1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
    2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
    3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
    4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
    5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
    6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
    7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
    8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
    9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
    10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
    11. Nominate an ATF director.
    12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
    13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
    14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
    15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
    16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
    17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
    18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
    19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
    20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
    21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
    22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
    23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...#ixzz2I9xEWuk5
    I don't have a huge problem with any of those . . .

  28. #1178
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    This list provided by the White House wasn't bad. Let's hope that's all they want.

  29. #1179

    Re: Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by OUMallen View Post
    Or a realistic inquiry as to whether their practices were lawful.

    Nothing to see here.
    Basically what I was saying.

  30. #1180
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    In a Shoe with sooo man children...what to do?

    sure seems like a lot of money to spend to do a lot of stuff that won't really help anyone
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  31. #1181
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    Here's a picture a buddy sent of Basspro last night in Tulsa.


  32. #1182
    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    I don't have a huge problem with any of those . . .
    The devil's in the details. How will these things be done?
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  33. #1183
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    Love the proposals and I think its reasonable to any rational person

  34. #1184
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    Originally Posted by usaosooner View Post
    Love the proposals and I think its reasonable to any rational person
    Even though the assault weapons and the high
    capacity magazine ban will have very little to no effect on gun violence?

  35. #1185
    Originally Posted by usaosooner View Post
    Love the proposals and I think its reasonable to any rational person
    What's to love? On the surface, there's nothing there.
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  36. #1186
    Originally Posted by ImTheDude View Post
    Even though the assault weapons and the high
    capacity magazine ban will have very little to no effect on gun violence?
    He pushed that to Congress. Doubtful it happens.
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  37. #1187
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    Originally Posted by Dexa View Post
    This list provided by the White House wasn't bad. Let's hope that's all they want.
    16. Presents a pretty slippery slope and could be a huge problem. Neither my doctor nor my daughter's doctor needs to know if I have guns. And they have no business asking me about it.

  38. #1188
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    Originally Posted by ImTheDude View Post
    Even though the assault weapons and the high
    capacity magazine ban will have very little to no effect on gun violence?
    Hopefully he just means the list of 23 EOs

  39. #1189
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    The devil's in the details. How will these things be done?
    Oh I know . . . . more committees, task forces and work groups.

    Now how they'll get paid for is the $64,000 question (if only that's all it would cost).

    An increase in taxes on firearms and ammo is my guess.

  40. #1190
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    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    16. Presents a pretty slippery slope and could be a huge problem. Neither my doctor nor my daughter's doctor needs to know if I have guns. And they have no business asking me about it.
    Yeah, are we required to answer that though?

  41. #1191
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    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    16. Presents a pretty slippery slope and could be a huge problem. Neither my doctor nor my daughter's doctor needs to know if I have guns. And they have no business asking me about it.
    Wonder when the first lawsuit about this exact issue will show up in court.

  42. #1192

    Re: Gun Laws

    Obama didn't coronate himself and enact instant confiscatory laws stealing all guns? Bummer.

  43. #1193
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    Originally Posted by nekkedJ_bird View Post
    sure seems like a lot of money to spend to do a lot of stuff that won't really help anyone
    I also don't see it doing too much to resolve the situation...
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  44. #1194
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    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    Obama didn't coronate himself and enact instant confiscatory laws stealing all guns? Bummer.
    Not yet . . .

  45. #1195
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    23 pointless proposals that won't do anything but make it look like he did something. He knows he's going to have a hard time getting his gun/ammo/mag bans through the House. So now it looks like he was out front on this issue and can say "I tried" when it fails in the House. But in the end these 23 orders just like the proposed bans will do nothing to stop a crazy person, or criminals bent on killing multiple people. Criminals or crazy people don't obey laws, old or new, that's part of being crazy or a criminal. Do you think either group cares before they do a drive by or a mass killing that they are violating a magazine ban? It's just stupid logic from irrational people.

  46. #1196
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    Re: Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    Or that you can't get pain medicine. now they want to put GPS on prescription bottles.
    From what I understand, they're just putting them in dummy bottles on the shelf so they can track thieves.

  47. #1197
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    Re: Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    16. Presents a pretty slippery slope and could be a huge problem. Neither my doctor nor my daughter's doctor needs to know if I have guns. And they have no business asking me about it.
    Agreed. Those of us in health care are sick and **** tired of playing cop. First they want pharmacists to police sudafed, now they want doctors to police guns.

  48. #1198
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    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    Obama didn't coronate himself and enact instant confiscatory laws stealing all guns? Bummer.
    One bite at a time.
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  49. #1199
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    Originally Posted by Dexa View Post
    Yeah, are we required to answer that though?
    Don't know. But if we don't then what? What does the doctor put in our file? What does the government do with those who don't answer? Will it be a crime if you answer no but do own guns?

    The provision to stop doctors from asking the question was put in Obamacare for a reason so why does Obama want to remove it?

    All question that must be answered, imo.

    I think it opens a slippery slope to denying the ability to purchase guns if you have kids in the home because guns will be considered a health hazard.

    Anybody else think it's shameful that Obama using children today in his announcement?

  50. #1200
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    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    Don't know. But if we don't then what? What does the doctor put in our file? What does the government do with those who don't answer? Will it be a crime if you answer no but do own guns?

    The provision to stop doctors from asking the question was put in Obamacare for a reason so why does Obama want to remove it?

    All question that must be answered, imo.

    I think it opens a slippery slope to denying the ability to purchase guns if you have kids in the home because guns will be considered a health hazard.

    Anybody else think it's shameful that Obama using children today in his announcement?
    No. That's just a political talking point. I suppose they could have been more diplomatic and just referenced the school by name an dnot have named specific kids that go there.


    What I don't get is: OK, so you limit clips to 10 rounds. I used to have, before I sold them to someone I can't remember now 3 15-round clips for my Glock.

    Is that now illegal to possess/own? Illegal to sell them?

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