Gun Laws

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  1. #1

    Gun Laws

    With the recent tragedy in Connecticut, I am wondering what everyone thinks about our country's gun laws. I am not into hunting, and don't own a gun for my home. I know my views are different than others' for many reasons...
    but to me it seems that the only people who should have access to automatic rifles are military personnel. I am starting to feel the same way about hand guns other than simple pistols that could be used for protection. I understand that people like to hunt and hunting rifles are a necessity for that.

    I am fine with allowing some guns to be purchased and used, but I really think there should be very strict ways of governing who can acquire a weapon and how they do it. Just having to wait and having a simple background check doesn't seem like it is enough to keep a nut job from getting his hands on multiple weapons that can kill innocent people in numbers. I'd really like to see in-depth interviews with people who want to purchase guns, and especially people who are hoarding numbers of weapons and could be a threat to innocent people in our communities.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Gun Laws

    Make it like Switzerland. Gun registrations, mandatory psychological tests. Annual shooting exams and safety tests.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    Make it like Switzerland. Gun registrations, mandatory psychological tests. Annual shooting exams and safety tests.
    I like that idea.
    If people want to shoot an AR-15, let them join the military.
    Also this open carry law makes me a little uneasy. Heard a guy on a radio show call in yesterday and say that he "wishes someone would have been carrying a gun in that school and could have taken out that guy..." or something to that effect.
    I wonder about that. I'd hate to be the guy that shoots at a guy in a public setting, but misses and kills someone else. That would be an ugly lawsuit to fight.
    I will never understand our country's fascination with weapons.

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    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    Make it like Switzerland. Gun registrations, mandatory psychological tests. Annual shooting exams and safety tests.
    I don't have a problem with this but it won't do diddly...this last spree was done with weapons owned by his mother....

  5. #5
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    Gun Laws

    Automatic weapons are not an issue in this country. Their price has skyrocketed since the 86 ban and only people willing to spend big bucks can afford them. A fully automatic AR15 averages about 20k.

    I think the problem with current gun legislation is the people writing these laws often know little about the guns they want to legislate.

    Things like adjustable stocks and barrel shrouds are not changing the capability of a weapon.

    I do not really WANT there to be a law limiting rounds a magazine can hold, but at least it would be something that makes sense for the intent of TRYING to make guns a little less devastating.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Dexa View Post
    Automatic weapons are not an issue in this country. Their price has skyrocketed since the 86 ban and only people willing to spend big bucks can afford them. A fully automatic AR15 averages about 20k.

    I think the problem with current gun legislation is the people writing these laws often know little about the guns they want to legislate.

    Things like adjustable stocks and barrel shrouds are not changing the capability of a weapon.

    I do not really WANT there to be a law limiting rounds a magazine can hold, but at least it would be something that makes sense for the intent of TRYING to make guns a little less devastating.
    Yeah like I said I am definitely no expert so I don't know all the prices, etc. but I do know that those types of guns are made for one thing and one thing only.
    Limiting rounds is one thing, but I think a real attempt to limit the number of guns someone can own and have access to is more important, and strict psychological evaluations like OnlyOneOklahoma mentioned in Switzerland.

    And I know a guy who has an AR, and I'm damn sure he didn't pay 20k for it.

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    Before you can put in effective solutions you must know the root cause of the problem...

    What is the root cause of the various shootings?
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    What would limiting the number of guns a person could own do to solve the problem?

    One guy with one 9mm can do a bunch of damage...
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by pphilfran View Post
    Before you can put in effective solutions you must know the root cause of the problem...

    What is the root cause of the various shootings?
    I'd say it is that people with psychological problems have access to obtaining guns unchecked.
    I guess in this case the guns belonged to his mom. Well maybe his mom shouldn't be able to have multiple guns, and shouldn't have them where her deranged son can access them. If a family head wants a gun, the entire family or anyone with direct access, imo, should be required to prove they are not a threat to society. I'm not saying it would have stopped this incident, it may not have, but it would be nice to know there are some worthy attempts to keep things like this from happening.

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    So someones right to own a weapon hinges on a family members mental capacity/ issues?

    What is the root cause of the problem...
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    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post

    And I know a guy who has an AR, and I'm damn sure he didn't pay 20k for it.
    Likely not fully automatic...

  12. #12
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    Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post
    Yeah like I said I am definitely no expert so I don't know all the prices, etc. but I do know that those types of guns are made for one thing and one thing only.
    Limiting rounds is one thing, but I think a real attempt to limit the number of guns someone can own and have access to is more important, and strict psychological evaluations like OnlyOneOklahoma mentioned in Switzerland.

    And I know a guy who has an AR, and I'm damn sure he didn't pay 20k for it.
    Yes. His AR is SEMI-automatic. Same as the handguns. One trigger pull.. One round fired.

    This is a mini14 ranch rifle.



    This is an AR15 type "assault rifle"



    They both fire the same caliber round, the same rate of fire, and the same round capacity (on average people use 20-30 round magazines)

    The reason one is considered different than the other (IMO) is that one version is employeed by military and law enforcement and the other by small game and/or varmint hunters.

    The fear of the weapon is the reason places like California legislate the absolute shit out of it and do noting to change what it actually does.
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    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post
    With the recent tragedy in Connecticut, I am wondering what everyone thinks about our country's gun laws. I am not into hunting, and don't own a gun for my home. I know my views are different than others' for many reasons...
    but to me it seems that the only people who should have access to automatic rifles are military personnel. I am starting to feel the same way about hand guns other than simple pistols that could be used for protection. I understand that people like to hunt and hunting rifles are a necessity for that.

    I am fine with allowing some guns to be purchased and used, but I really think there should be very strict ways of governing who can acquire a weapon and how they do it. Just having to wait and having a simple background check doesn't seem like it is enough to keep a nut job from getting his hands on multiple weapons that can kill innocent people in numbers. I'd really like to see in-depth interviews with people who want to purchase guns, and especially people who are hoarding numbers of weapons and could be a threat to innocent people in our communities.

    Thoughts?
    I don't think hoarding guns are a problem. I haven't done any research but my educated guess is that most of these killings are done with a small number of weapons. Didn't the VTech shooter only have one gun? And other times, as with yesterday and I believe Jonesboro, the weapons were taken from someone else. We need to quit blaming the inanimate object. The problem is with the person as well as our violent society. And, as OOO says, maybe psych tests. Many doctors have said that someone who does something like this does suffer from some sort of mental illness. Head tests, safety checkups, waiting periods are all good but it doesn't address the main issue and that's why these people are doing this.

    But you ask about our gun laws and I ask which of the already thousands in place are you referring to? Look at a place like Chicago. All the restrictions in the world aren't helping that place.
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post
    Yeah like I said I am definitely no expert so I don't know all the prices, etc. but I do know that those types of guns are made for one thing and one thing only.
    Limiting rounds is one thing, but I think a real attempt to limit the number of guns someone can own and have access to is more important, and strict psychological evaluations like OnlyOneOklahoma mentioned in Switzerland.

    And I know a guy who has an AR, and I'm damn sure he didn't pay 20k for it.
    an AR isn't an automatic gun. Fully auto guns are hard to come by for the average citizen as the other poster said. Your friends AR is a semi-auto, only fires one shot per pull of the trigger.

    And ALL guns are made for one thing and one thing only. You pull the trigger and they launch a projectile. Where that projectile ends up is based on the person pulling the trigger. I personally have several guns, and I dont hunt at all. Some I have for personal protection. Some (like my AR 15) I have because they are fun to shoot.

    The type of gun is irrelevant, the great failure of this country is in the recognition and treatment of people with mental issues. Guns get blamed because the politicians know they are too stupid to actually propose a solution to the root cause of the problem, so they propose a band-aid solution to the symptom.

    The problem with that is that it doesn't work. Did you know that CT has the fourth most restrictive gun laws in the US? Doesn't really make for a case of "better gun laws will decrease gun related violence" does it?
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    until we fix whats wrong with our society, blaming and banning the tools used to kill will only change the tools used to kill. The tool is not the problem but it's so much easier to blame and think that banning it will solve all the problems. The world is full of ****ing crazy, evil people and they've been around since man has been around. We've been slaughtering each other since we learned how to kill and we will continue to do so until humans are no longer here.

    This guy is a sociopath who had a psychotic break. He was going to kill by any means possible imo. What we need is a better mental health care system, a better society that doesn't glorify violence, gang culture, thug life, etc. When kids and adults are constantly bombarded with very violent movies, TV, music, video games, etc., it's going to have an effect. Our kids spend hours a day killing people in video games. Don't think that doesn't have an effect on their detachment from their value on human life. Guns are not the problem in this society despite everybody wanting to blame them, mainly because it helps promote a political agenda and is much easier to blame than fixing the real problem. This country lacks empathy. We hate and destroy each other because we think differently, have different political views. We shove our kids in front TV's, video games, the computer, etc., instead of spending time with them, talking to them. We no longer value each other. Our kids have a lower value of human life. They kill people now because they ask for a cigarette and are told to get a job. We no longer respect peoples beliefs. We slam people because they believe in God. You see that on here. We no longer live and let live, we now try to insult, divide and conquer.

    If this guy would have set the school on fire and blocked all the exits, would you gun banners want to ban gasoline and matches?
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  16. #16

    Gun Laws

    Correct KC. Mass shooters rarely "snap". They plan for weeks/months for the event. They almost always show a history of mental problems or aggression. Some had received some form of treatment while others had none. Perhaps this is something good that come from Obamacare. I'm sure a lot of people do not get help for their family members showing problems because they can't afford it.


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  17. #17
    An automatic weapon has not been used in any of these tragedies.

  18. #18
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    FWIW, its people like the OP (and I have nothing against you personally, I'm just stereotyping you) who dont know anything about guns, and are brainwashed by the media to believe that the guns are the problem here, who are going to be party to our 2nd amendment rights going the way of the Dodo.
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  19. #19

    Gun Laws

    He left the AR in the car. Why is it part of the discussion?
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    He left the AR in the car. Why is it part of the discussion?
    Because, as usual, facts aren't allowed to cloud a good argument.
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  21. #21
    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    He left the AR in the car. Why is it part of the discussion?
    That's what is driving me crazy. Why even mention the gun?

  22. #22

    Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by pbc2003 View Post
    That's what is driving me crazy. Why even mention the gun?
    Agenda.

  23. #23
    maybe we should start with what's on tv...
    let's ban all guns in tv shows....movies....and video games....
    Last edited by 87sooner; December 15th, 2012 at 11:30 AM.

  24. #24
    Ok, I agree with pretty much everything everyone is saying in argument against my OP.
    First, I agree that this ass hole yesterday was nuts, and I agree if he wanted to kill a ton of people he could have done it in many ways. It just so happens his mom had multiple guns in a place he could easily get to, so he used them.
    And I just was pointing out yesterdays incident as it made me wonder about the laws pertaining to guns. I have no idea what guns he used, didn't use, and didn't say he used any specific guns. I just know that in other countries, when tragedies like this have happened in the past, there have been strict changes to gun control laws. Apparently Switzerland is one of those places. Kids over there play video games, too.
    I have no agenda and didn't mean to offend anyone. And I don't really want to limit the freedoms of people who want to own a gun for whatever reason.
    I have shot guns before, and yeah, its fun to blow shit up.
    I just don't see the point in owning lots of guns just for fun.
    I'd agree that the problem is the people using them, and better evaluation/medical help is overall the best thing for the US.

  25. #25
    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    Agenda.
    Yes. It was my agenda to piss you off, not to have a rational discussion about a topic.

  26. #26
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    Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post
    Yes. It was my agenda to piss you off, not to have a rational discussion about a topic.
    Sigh..

    He wasn't talking about you. He was talking about media bobble heads.

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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    He left the AR in the car. Why is it part of the discussion?
    No he didn't...

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    Originally Posted by acheman8 View Post
    No he didn't...
    Source?

  29. #29
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    Last i heard the AR was still in the back of the car...but the media didn't get his name right so they could be wrong here also...

  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by Dexa View Post
    Source?
    http://www.wane.com/dpps/news/nation...12-jos_5089863

    CNN is also reporting all three guns found inside the school next to he body of the shooter...

  31. #31
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    That report says there was a fourth gun....

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    Lots of wrong information / confusion / jumping to conclusions on this one... probably won't have all the ACCURATE details for a couple of days..

  33. #33
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    Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by acheman8 View Post
    http://www.wane.com/dpps/news/nation...12-jos_5089863

    CNN is also reporting all three guns found inside the school next to he body of the shooter...
    Updated at 8:45 a.m. ET] The suspect in the Connecticut school shooting may have had access to at least five guns, a law enforcement official with direct knowledge of the investigation said Saturday. Three weapons were recovered from the school on Friday: a semi-automatic .223 caliber rifle made by Bushmaster found in a car in the school parking lot, and two pistols made by Glock and a Sig Sauer found with suspected gunman Adam Lanza’s body, a law enforcement source said previously.




    Posted from CNN. I suppose neither are credible until all this shit is sorted out.

  34. #34
    Originally Posted by ResidentEvil View Post
    FWIW, its people like the OP (and I have nothing against you personally, I'm just stereotyping you) who dont know anything about guns, and are brainwashed by the media to believe that the guns are the problem here, who are going to be party to our 2nd amendment rights going the way of the Dodo.
    I don't think guns are the problem.
    I think the problem is the easy access to guns that mentally sick people have, and the fact that there are so many mentally sick people in our country who are misdiagnosed or not treated at all.
    I do believe there are things that could be changed about gun laws that would help hinder individuals from doing things like this, though. I mean, while I agree the guy in Conn. could have built a bomb, he would have spent lots of time researching and developing his bomb. All of which could have been noticed by others, perhaps. Its not like there was a bomb or two or three sitting in the next room where he could grab it and go do his will. There were guns, so he used guns.
    I don't think people like me are brainwashed by the media any more than people who are scared that Obama is going to send troops into homes and take guns away.

  35. #35
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    Originally Posted by Dexa View Post
    Updated at 8:45 a.m. ET] The suspect in the Connecticut school shooting may have had access to at least five guns, a law enforcement official with direct knowledge of the investigation said Saturday. Three weapons were recovered from the school on Friday: a semi-automatic .223 caliber rifle made by Bushmaster found in a car in the school parking lot, and two pistols made by Glock and a Sig Sauer found with suspected gunman Adam Lanza’s body, a law enforcement source said previously.

    Posted from CNN. I suppose neither are credible until all this shit is sorted out.
    [Updated at 9:57 am EST]
    The official says a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, and a .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle were found in the school after the massacre Friday.
    The official says that a fourth weapon was found outside the school and that investigators have been going to shooting ranges and gun stores to see if Lanza had frequented them.

  36. #36
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    Originally Posted by acheman8 View Post
    [Updated at 9:57 am EST]
    The official says a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, and a .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle were found in the school after the massacre Friday.
    The official says that a fourth weapon was found outside the school and that investigators have been going to shooting ranges and gun stores to see if Lanza had frequented them.
    Yeah, I read the article you posted. I don't see any other national outlets reporting that.

    Not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying its tough to know at this point.

  37. #37
    cnn reported he tried to buy a gun tuesday but was turned down, they are saying he had a .223 with him in the school. ofcourse cnn is really on the anti gun bandwagon as was Obama yesterday if you read between the lines of his speech. it won't do a damn thing to stop gun violence but the Lanza Laws are coming to a state near you.

    the interesting part of this whole thing is why was his mother allowing him access to her guns, it is becoming more and more clear that he was troubled.

  38. #38
    Originally Posted by willie View Post
    cnn reported he tried to buy a gun tuesday but was turned down, they are saying he had a .223 with him in the school. ofcourse cnn is really on the anti gun bandwagon as was Obama yesterday if you read between the lines of his speech. it won't do a damn thing to stop gun violence but the Lanza Laws are coming to a state near you.

    the interesting part of this whole thing is why was his mother allowing him access to her guns, it is becoming more and more clear that he was troubled.
    did he live with his mother?

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    Originally Posted by willie View Post
    cnn reported he tried to buy a gun tuesday but was turned down, they are saying he had a .223 with him in the school. ofcourse cnn is really on the anti gun bandwagon as was Obama yesterday if you read between the lines of his speech. it won't do a damn thing to stop gun violence but the Lanza Laws are coming to a state near you.

    the interesting part of this whole thing is why was his mother allowing him access to her guns, it is becoming more and more clear that he was troubled.
    The MSM media was banging that drum by noon. Bloomberg was out there before dinner. MSLSD was wondering what sort of positive points this will give BHO. As Rahm said, never let a good crisis go to waste.

    And from a NY Congressman...

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...st-exploit-sh/

    And the OWS trolls are blaming capitalism...

    http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-con...m-2542364.html

    Meanwhile, in gun free Chicago, life goes on...

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...0,912168.story

  40. #40
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    did he live with his mother?
    it is hard to tell since the media spews out whatever they hear from anyone but some sources are saying the following:
    when everyone was reporting it was ryan lanza someone that knows the family said no, it must have been Adam
    he tried to buy a gun tuesday
    he had some sort of altercation at the school earlier in the week
    his mother was not working at the time, staying home to take care of him

    it will be interesting to find out just how troubled this kid was and just how many warning signs there were.

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    Originally Posted by willie View Post
    it is hard to tell since the media spews out whatever they hear from anyone but some sources are saying the following:
    when everyone was reporting it was ryan lanza someone that knows the family said no, it must have been Adam
    he tried to buy a gun tuesday
    he had some sort of altercation at the school earlier in the week
    his mother was not working at the time, staying home to take care of him

    it will be interesting to find out just how troubled this kid was and just how many warning signs there were.
    Most of these guys leave a wealth of clues behind. The Tucson shooter, Colorado shooter, VTech shooter, Major Hasan, ad naseum. I'm sure once they start digging they'll find the same here.

  42. #42

  43. #43
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    Banning assault rifles won't necessarily prevent something like this from happening again. The Virginia Tech shooter had a Glock 19 and a Walther P22 and managed to kill 32 people and injure 23 people.

    Also, violence in movies and video games is not exclusively something found in America. 99.9% of people who watch violent movies don't shoot up their schools or workplaces.

    The issue isn't even necessarily treating mental illness itself, but how easy it is for a mentally ill person to gain access to deadly firearms. I don't think it's a terribly partisan thing to say that mentally unstable people shouldn't have guns. Unfortunately, there's not a foolproof way of ensuring this doesn't happen. There will ALWAYS be guns out there and even if you limit ownership to responsible people who pass strict background checks, their mentally disturbed relatives may just steal their gun from them anyway. How do you pass laws that say you can't store deadly firearms in easy to find places in your home?

    But why was James Holmes able to purchase weapons so easily? Cho Seunhg Hui at Va Tech?

  44. #44
    .
    Last edited by soonerintn; July 20th, 2013 at 01:18 AM.

  45. #45
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    maybe we should start with what's on tv...
    let's ban all guns in tv shows....movies....and video games....
    America is very odd when it comes to censorship.

    Did anyone catch Apocalypse Now the other day on AMC? They edited out a naked butt....on a man hanging from a tree. Death and destruction and chopped off heads everywhere...but lets censor the guy's ass.

    Interesting culture over there.

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    Originally Posted by pphilfran View Post
    Last i heard the AR was still in the back of the car...but the media didn't get his name right so they could be wrong here also...
    Someone probably took the AR out of the trunk of the car and threw it into the crime scene by his body, so they can blame the "assault rifle".

    [/sarcasm]



    kind of

  47. #47
    The only way you can really go after more gun laws is through enforcement. Which means more violence. We need to take a different approach alltogether as a society to fix these problems. Not continue saying that aggression is for the greater good.

  48. #48
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    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post
    I just don't see the point in owning lots of guns just for fun.
    I dont see the point in eating McDonalds. So lets regulate who can eat there.
    I dont see the point in drinking alcohol for fun. So lets make it illegal.

    I promise I'm not trying to harp on you. Just kind of making a point. I respect your opinion that you dont see the point in owning guns just for fun. Here are a lot of people who do see the point though. But it honestly doesn't matter what you or I individually think. Its a right granted to us through the US constitution.

    Unfortunately, things like the CT school shooting happen. Its one of the prices of freedom, its a terrible price and its unfortunate that some people choose to take advantage of the freedom we have. But its better than the alternative.

    I'm not opposed to gun regulation, but I think it must be thoughtful regulation. Lets spend a little less time worrying about whether a gun has a pistol grip, how long its barrel is or whether it has a supressor on it. Lets spend a little more time making sure that people are educated in their use before they buy them, that they aren't crazy, that people understand that guns aren't toys and are to be treated with respect.

    The biggest problem with gun regulation, is that it never really addresses the problem. What is the point of banning a rifle with a pistol grip? Does that make it more dangerous, or more likely to kill someone? I would be all for more firearms regulation, but I am certain that our elected officials are far too stupid to actually make regulations that would have a meaningful impact on gun related violence
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    Originally Posted by ResidentEvil View Post
    I dont see the point in eating McDonalds. So lets regulate who can eat there.
    I dont see the point in drinking alcohol for fun. So lets make it illegal.

    I promise I'm not trying to harp on you. Just kind of making a point. I respect your opinion that you dont see the point in owning guns just for fun. Here are a lot of people who do see the point though. But it honestly doesn't matter what you or I individually think. Its a right granted to us through the US constitution.

    Unfortunately, things like the CT school shooting happen. Its one of the prices of freedom, its a terrible price and its unfortunate that some people choose to take advantage of the freedom we have. But its better than the alternative.

    I'm not opposed to gun regulation, but I think it must be thoughtful regulation. Lets spend a little less time worrying about whether a gun has a pistol grip, how long its barrel is or whether it has a supressor on it. Lets spend a little more time making sure that people are educated in their use before they buy them, that they aren't crazy, that people understand that guns aren't toys and are to be treated with respect.

    The biggest problem with gun regulation, is that it never really addresses the problem. What is the point of banning a rifle with a pistol grip? Does that make it more dangerous, or more likely to kill someone? I would be all for more firearms regulation, but I am certain that our elected officials are far too stupid to actually make regulations that would have a meaningful impact on gun related violence
    A pistol grip and collapsing stock make it easier to conceal, etc.

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    Originally Posted by Boognish View Post
    I just know that in other countries, when tragedies like this have happened in the past, there have been strict changes to gun control laws. Apparently Switzerland is one of those places. Kids over there play video games, too.
    And read up on Switzerland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...in_Switzerland

    They have a very high gun ownership rate and one of the lower gun related crime rates in Europe.

    This is what I mean about the media brainwashing people. The facts actually point to tighter gun control not correlating to decreased gun related violence. Its not easy at all for a civillian to get access to a military style automatic weapon.

    Yet you believe that both of these things are true (see your OP and the one quoted in this post. Again, I'm not talking about you specifically...more stereotyping. A lot of people get spoon fed inaccurate information by the media, and thus have inaccurate assumptions about guns, gun laws, gun control, etc.

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