Gun Laws

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  1. #401
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    (And really, the saddest point of the entire thing: the federal government has been stripping our liberties for decades. If the citizenry hasn't done anything YET, we simply won't as a practical matter.)

  2. #402
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    How many armed citizens would it take to storm and take over the Senate while they were in session? A couple hundred?

    Now, take 50 of those small groups and how much damage and control could they exert in DC?

    It is not so much that an armed militia couldn't overtake the government...it is the fact that the "combat" losses are too high for most to participate in such an extreme action...

  3. #403
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    Originally Posted by pphilfran View Post
    How many armed citizens would it take to storm and take over the Senate while they were in session? A couple hundred?

    Now, take 50 of those small groups and how much damage and control could they exert in DC?

    It is not so much that an armed militia couldn't overtake the government...it is the fact that the "combat" losses are too high for most to participate in such an extreme action...
    Hahhaah yeah, OK. Try to do that at the Pentagon and disable the US government's ability to wage war and counterattack. All we have to do is take over Congress and we win? Everyone quits? SWEET!


    I think the philosophical counterargument is that: yes, at present, the citizenry can't orchestrate meaningful violent revolution in the US. However, the US government won't always been the US government on a longer enough timeline, and taking away citizens' firearms now could hurt citizens in the future against a government or tyrant they COULD overthrow.

  4. #404
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    Originally Posted by OUMallen View Post
    Hahhaah yeah, OK. Try to do that at the Pentagon and disable the US government's ability to wage war and counterattack. All we have to do is take over Congress and we win? Everyone quits? SWEET!


    I think the philosophical counterargument is that: yes, at present, the citizenry can't orchestrate meaningful violent revolution in the US. However, the US government won't always been the US government on a longer enough timeline, and taking away citizens' firearms now could hurt citizens in the future against a government or tyrant they COULD overthrow.
    I am not saying it would be simple or easy to accomplish but to just wave it off as impossible, as you suggest, is not what I believe...

    Is it going to happen? Hell, no...but to use that as reason to abandon the right to own a firearm is not justified imo...

  5. #405
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    Originally Posted by pphilfran View Post
    I am not saying it would be simple or easy to accomplish but to just wave it off as impossible, as you suggest, is not what I believe...

    Is it going to happen? Hell, no...but to use that as reason to abandon the right to own a firearm is not justified imo...
    I never said abandon the right to own a firearm. I own several. I want to keep them.

    I'm just saying that "violent overthrow of the US federal government" isn't much of a compelling argument for gun ownership, these days. Which I think it pretty obvious.

  6. #406
    Originally Posted by pphilfran View Post
    How many armed citizens would it take to storm and take over the Senate while they were in session? A couple hundred?

    Now, take 50 of those small groups and how much damage and control could they exert in DC?

    It is not so much that an armed militia couldn't overtake the government...it is the fact that the "combat" losses are too high for most to participate in such an extreme action...
    This post has been flagged by The Department of Homeland Security.
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  7. #407
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    Originally Posted by OUMallen View Post
    I never said that. I never said anything close to that.

    The point is: if the government is facing its own extinction and all options are on the table, the US government is going to beat any insurgency. Hell, it would take several, several developed nations' armies together to defeat the US Armed Forces if extinction is on the table. And allowing US civilians to own semi-automatic .223s and 9mms isn't going to help much.
    I see where you are coming from, I just think we have a different idea of the dynamics of the situation. You view the military as merely an arm of the government, which isnt completely true. Yes they are an arm of the government, but the government is just an arm of the people. The military are US citizens and ultimately answer to US citizens. I think that there is a basic understanding of that at every level of the military. Again, maybe I am naive but I think the treasonous command from the government to use heavy ordinance on US cities would just as likely trigger a military coup as it would an obliteration of said cities.

  8. #408
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    Originally Posted by OUMallen View Post
    I never said abandon the right to own a firearm. I own several. I want to keep them.

    I'm just saying that "violent overthrow of the US federal government" isn't much of a compelling argument for gun ownership, these days. Which I think it pretty obvious.
    Got it...

  9. #409
    Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
    I see where you are coming from, I just think we have a different idea of the dynamics of the situation. You view the military as merely an arm of the government, which isnt completely true. Yes they are an arm of the government, but the government is just an arm of the people. The military are US citizens and ultimately answer to US citizens. I think that there is a basic understanding of that at every level of the military. Again, maybe I am naive but I think the treasonous command from the government to use heavy ordinance on US cities would just as likely trigger a military coup as it would an obliteration of said cities.
    if you happen to know any higher ranking military officers.....ask them how they feel about the ndaa signed into law by owebama.....
    ndaa really complicates things for the military...and the officers i know....really want no part of it...

  10. #410
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    Originally Posted by pbc2003 View Post
    This post has been flagged by The Department of Homeland Security.
    I loled. That occurred to me several times during this discussion. We're all being watched now.

  11. #411
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    If you think the people of the US stand a chance with the gov you're sadly mistaken. if you piss enough people off who believe in a cause above all else the gov better watch out. The 2nd was put in place so the citizens could defend themselves from a gov. If that said government wants to keep putting more and more laws in place that says what we can and can't do, such as banning AR's or limiting number of rounds a mag can hold they are only distancing the gap between us and them as far as weaponry is concerned. Which is already a huge gap. THIS IS NOT FOR THE BENEFIT/SAFETY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. That's how tyranny starts. if anyone believes the govt is doing us a public service by enforcing such a law is a Goddam idiot.

    1 liberty at a time. Ive been through several highway rd blocks in the past year where they are "checking ID" like we are in **** ****ing Germany. When asked why I needed to display said ID, two highway patrol placed hands on their weapons and told me to calm down. For the record all I did was ask why, no malicious intent whatsoever. It's that kind of bullshit that can't be tolerated. Too many people putting too much faith in that fact the govt or law enforcement will protect them from the "bad guys" we all live in fear of. The inability the American people have to think for themselves ****ing sickens me.

  12. #412
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    Originally Posted by OUMallen View Post
    I loled. That occurred to me several times during this discussion. We're all being watched now.
    Shit, this thread is just adding to the database. We're being watched, logged and stored constantly and it's not because of anything in this thread.
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  13. #413
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    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    Shit, this thread is just adding to the database. We're being watched, logged and stored constantly and it's not because of anything in this thread.
    It does determine which agency has to look at and xref your file.

    In this case, ATF agents get to gander through your stuff and see if any of you also post on Stormfront or whatnot. If there is a certain "score" determined by post content and where you visit online, they'll go further and pull up your texts, cell phone records, and emails. Score high enough with that, and you get surveillanced.

    Yay freedom.
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  14. #414
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    Originally Posted by The View Post
    It does determine which agency has to look at and xref your file.

    In this case, ATF agents get to gander through your stuff and see if any of you also post on Stormfront or whatnot. If there is a certain "score" determined by post content and where you visit online, they'll go further and pull up your texts, cell phone records, and emails. Score high enough with that, and you get surveillanced.

    Yay freedom.
    And yet, not a **** is given about this by most of this country since they think they have nothing to hide. Guess who gets to determine if you have nothing to hide or did anything wrong, whoever the agent is checking you out.

    I'm willing to bet anybody who has bought anything remotely "tactical" whether it be a gun or a pair of underwear marketed as "tactical" is being looked at since the shooting.

  15. #415
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    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    And yet, not a **** is given about this by most of this country since they think they have nothing to hide. Guess who gets to determine if you have nothing to hide or did anything wrong, whoever the agent is checking you out.

    I'm willing to bet anybody who has bought anything remotely "tactical" whether it be a gun or a pair of underwear marketed as "tactical" is being looked at since the shooting.

  16. #416
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    Welp. Yay.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...firearm-sales/

    They are charging $60 for pmags that were $13 a week ago. I find it hard to believe that anyone would spend that.

  17. #417
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    Originally Posted by Fahooglegods View Post
    Welp. Yay.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...firearm-sales/

    They are charging $60 for pmags that were $13 a week ago. I find it hard to believe that anyone would spend that.
    holy ****, that's outrageous.

  18. #418
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    Originally Posted by bushmaster06 View Post
    holy ****, that's outrageous.
    1000 RD Lake City 5.56 bulk pack is going for $899.96. Haha, I will pass.

  19. #419
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    i saw that too.

  20. #420
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    Originally Posted by OUMallen View Post
    I never said abandon the right to own a firearm. I own several. I want to keep them.

    I'm just saying that "violent overthrow of the US federal government" isn't much of a compelling argument for gun ownership, these days. Which I think it pretty obvious.
    I agree

  21. #421
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    Originally Posted by The View Post
    It does determine which agency has to look at and xref your file.

    In this case, ATF agents get to gander through your stuff and see if any of you also post on Stormfront or whatnot. If there is a certain "score" determined by post content and where you visit online, they'll go further and pull up your texts, cell phone records, and emails. Score high enough with that, and you get surveillanced.

    Yay freedom.
    What are you hiding ?

  22. #422
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    Originally Posted by Cabbage_town_kid View Post
    If you think the people of the US stand a chance with the gov you're sadly mistaken. if you piss enough people off who believe in a cause above all else the gov better watch out. The 2nd was put in place so the citizens could defend themselves from a gov. If that said government wants to keep putting more and more laws in place that says what we can and can't do, such as banning AR's or limiting number of rounds a mag can hold they are only distancing the gap between us and them as far as weaponry is concerned. Which is already a huge gap. THIS IS NOT FOR THE BENEFIT/SAFETY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. That's how tyranny starts. if anyone believes the govt is doing us a public service by enforcing such a law is a Goddam idiot.

    I don't mind because I'm not hiding anything.. The people who are saying arm teachers ARE THE IDIOTS.

    1 liberty at a time. Ive been through several highway rd blocks in the past year where they are "checking ID" like we are in **** ****ing Germany. When asked why I needed to display said ID, two highway patrol placed hands on their weapons and told me to calm down. For the record all I did was ask why, no malicious intent whatsoever. It's that kind of bullshit that can't be tolerated. Too many people putting too much faith in that fact the govt or law enforcement will protect them from the "bad guys" we all live in fear of. The inability the American people have to think for themselves ****ing sickens me.
    The people who are saying arm teachers are the idiots.

  23. #423
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    Gun Laws

    Originally Posted by boomermagic View Post
    The people who are saying arm teachers are the idiots.
    I 100% agree with this. There is no training that will ever exist that would train teachers or administrators to carry a gun.

  24. #424
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    Originally Posted by soonerprices View Post
    I 100% agree with this. There is no training that will ever exist that would train teachers or administrators to carry a gun.
    sure there is.

  25. #425
    Originally Posted by soonerprices View Post
    I 100% agree with this. There is no training that will ever exist that would train teachers or administrators to carry a gun.
    Unless you live in Harrold Texas.....

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...174238129.html

    http://godfatherpolitics.com/8593/te...aled-handguns/

  26. #426
    Originally Posted by soonerprices View Post
    I 100% agree with this. There is no training that will ever exist that would train teachers or administrators to carry a gun.
    i understand teachers/principals/superintendents don't sign up for armed combat......but if they were willing to go thru the licensing process and firearms training....i would have no problem saying go for it...
    small rural schools are not built for security.....and they can't afford security guards or sophisticated electronic security....
    give the principal/superintendent/coaches a gun to lock up in their offices and it may mean the difference in substantial loss of life and minimal loss of life..
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  27. #427
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    Originally Posted by soonerprices View Post
    I 100% agree with this. There is no training that will ever exist that would train teachers or administrators to carry a gun.
    Really? Never? I guarantee that you're wrong.

  28. #428
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    Originally Posted by SoonerArtillery View Post
    Haha, I love it. Well played sir.

    This police chief thinks it to be a good idea as well.

    http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dai...rs_newtown.php

  29. #429
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    Originally Posted by bushmaster06 View Post
    sure there is.
    Most teachers do not have the make up that is required to carry a gun and use it. If it was a bill that allowed all teachers the ability to carry then its insane. I be there a several schools that don't have one teacher/admin that needs to be carrying a gun.

  30. #430
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    Originally Posted by Fahooglegods View Post
    Really? Never? I guarantee that you're wrong.
    How many of the teachers that you had do you think should carry a gun in school.

  31. #431
    Originally Posted by Cabbage_town_kid View Post
    If you think the people of the US stand a chance with the gov you're sadly mistaken. if you piss enough people off who believe in a cause above all else the gov better watch out. The 2nd was put in place so the citizens could defend themselves from a gov. If that said government wants to keep putting more and more laws in place that says what we can and can't do, such as banning AR's or limiting number of rounds a mag can hold they are only distancing the gap between us and them as far as weaponry is concerned. Which is already a huge gap. THIS IS NOT FOR THE BENEFIT/SAFETY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. That's how tyranny starts. if anyone believes the govt is doing us a public service by enforcing such a law is a Goddam idiot.

    1 liberty at a time. Ive been through several highway rd blocks in the past year where they are "checking ID" like we are in **** ****ing Germany. When asked why I needed to display said ID, two highway patrol placed hands on their weapons and told me to calm down. For the record all I did was ask why, no malicious intent whatsoever. It's that kind of bullshit that can't be tolerated. Too many people putting too much faith in that fact the govt or law enforcement will protect them from the "bad guys" we all live in fear of. The inability the American people have to think for themselves ****ing sickens me.
    So all highway patrolman are taught to place their hands on their guns when they are questioned? Is there anything besides tobacco in that gertz of yours.

  32. #432
    Originally Posted by Fahooglegods View Post
    Haha, I love it. Well played sir.

    This police chief thinks it to be a good idea as well.

    http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dai...rs_newtown.php
    The chief in Chickasha is hinting this way too.

  33. #433
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    Originally Posted by sheepdogs View Post
    So all highway patrolman are taught to put their hands on their guns when they are questioned? Is there anything besides tobacco in that gertz of yours.
    I think it's their human nature that causes them to try and intimidate you with that tactic when you aren't being 100% cooperative.

  34. #434
    Originally Posted by soonerprices View Post
    How many of the teachers that you had do you think should carry a gun in school.
    i don't know if i would teach if i COULDN'T carry a gun....
    how do you fail a kid and not wonder if/when he's going to walk thru the door and try to gun you down?

  35. #435
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    i don't know if i would teach if i COULDN'T carry a gun....
    how do you fail a kid and not wonder if/when he's going to walk thru the door and try to gun you down?
    Haha. Never worried about that one. Most kids who fail really don't care. Surely don't care enough to shoot someone.

  36. #436
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    I'm more worried about the time I caught the kid smoking off campus at lunch.

  37. #437
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  38. #438
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    Originally Posted by soonerprices View Post
    Most teachers do not have the make up that is required to carry a gun and use it. If it was a bill that allowed all teachers the ability to carry then its insane. I be there a several schools that don't have one teacher/admin that needs to be carrying a gun.
    most teachers don't have to. regardless of how you feel about this topic, to say that the training doesn't exist is naive at best.

  39. #439
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    Originally Posted by soonerprices View Post
    Most teachers do not have the make up that is required to carry a gun and use it. If it was a bill that allowed all teachers the ability to carry then its insane. I be there a several schools that don't have one teacher/admin that needs to be carrying a gun.
    You mean like the one in Newtown?

  40. #440
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    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    sweet, more bodies attached to fast and furious.

  41. #441
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    Originally Posted by sheepdogs View Post
    So all highway patrolman are taught to place their hands on their guns when they are questioned? Is there anything besides tobacco in that gertz of yours.
    I have no idea what all patrolman are taught but these two wasted no time going into their half crouch step back and place their hand on your pistol thing they all do. No reason for it other than to try and intimidate you. Scared the shit out of my wife. No sense in shit like that. With that being said, I'm all for arming teachers. I'm all for arming everybody. Send those willing through all the training they want. Even if only a few teachers carry, like 87 said it could be difference between -best case scenario- all out prevention of a shooting, or minimal loss of life as compared to Sandy Hook/aurora/columbine where everyone is utterly defenseless and the criminals walk the halls in zero fear while they kill at will.

  42. #442
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    Originally Posted by soonerprices View Post
    How many of the teachers that you had do you think should carry a gun in school.
    Calculus teacher was in the army, same for a chem teacher. One football coach taught English, another "taught" Gym. High school was 15 years ago but that is what I can think of off the top of my head.

  43. #443
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    Maybe someone can answer this for me. With all the cries for new laws and restrictions what is going to be done in gun free zones like Chicago where there's the equivalent of the Newtown shooting every 16 days?

  44. #444
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    Originally Posted by soonerprices View Post
    Most teachers do not have the make up that is required to carry a gun and use it. If it was a bill that allowed all teachers the ability to carry then its insane. I be there a several schools that don't have one teacher/admin that needs to be carrying a gun.
    This is possibly the dumbest, most ignorant statement yet on this thread.

    Most teachers don't have the make up necessary? Since most teachers are women, are you suggesting that women don't have the make up to carry a gun? What is it about being a teacher that makes then unqualified in character and constitution to carry a gun?

    Originally Posted by soonerprices View Post
    How many of the teachers that you had do you think should carry a gun in school.
    I'm willing to bet that a shit load of teachers have guns and carry guns when they're not in school. And I had a lot that would be perfectly capable of carrying a gun in school.

    Anybody can be trained to handle/carry a gun properly. I've seen women who were scared to ****ing death of guns go to a class to learn to shot and come out of it absolutely loving guns.
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  45. #445
    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    This is possibly the dumbest, most ignorant statement yet on this thread.

    Most teachers don't have the make up necessary? Since most teachers are women, are you suggesting that women don't have the make up to carry a gun? What is it about being a teacher that makes then unqualified in character and constitution to not carry a gun?



    I'm willing to bet that a shit load of teachers have guns and carry guns when they're not in school. And I had a lot that would be perfectly capable of carrying a gun in school.

    Anybody can be trained to handle/carry a gun properly. I've seen women who were scared to ****ing death of guns go to a class to learn to shot and come out it absolutely loving guns.
    I went to a ccw class this past weekend. The class was full with 32 in it, more than half were women, with a third of those never having fired a handgun before......Those four were probably some of the better shots in the entire group.

  46. #446
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    Frankly, I don't think a ccl class is enough training for these situations. Would rather have professional tacticians at the schools.

  47. #447
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    The chief in Chickasha is hinting this way too.
    I am a retired Chief of police and I don't think it's a good idea.

  48. #448
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    Originally Posted by SoonerArtillery View Post
    I went to a ccw class this past weekend. The class was full with 32 in it, more than half were women, with a third of those never having fired a handgun before......Those four were probably some of the better shots in the entire group.
    Thats unusual.

  49. #449
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    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    Maybe someone can answer this for me. With all the cries for new laws and restrictions what is going to be done in gun free zones like Chicago where there's the equivalent of the Newtown shooting every 16 days?
    Innocent first graders are killed by the dozens every month????????????????????????????????????????????

  50. #450
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    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    This is possibly the dumbest, most ignorant statement yet on this thread.

    Most teachers don't have the make up necessary? Since most teachers are women, are you suggesting that women don't have the make up to carry a gun? What is it about being a teacher that makes then unqualified in character and constitution to carry a gun?


    Nope, Dumb idea.
    I'm willing to bet that a shit load of teachers have guns and carry guns when they're not in school. And I had a lot that would be perfectly capable of carrying a gun in school.

    Anybody can be trained to handle/carry a gun properly. I've seen women who were scared to ****ing death of guns go to a class to learn to shot and come out of it absolutely loving guns.
    Dumb idea.

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