SEC oversigning (Again)

[TheBoots]

Remember how all the SEC apologists would have you beleive that they did not oversign or over recuit? And then the SEC passed a rule against oversigning and over recruiting?


How can UGA sign 30-35 recruits under the SEC’s new over-signing rules?


1:35 pm December 23, 2012, by Michael Carvell

Last year, the SEC passed new rules on “over-signing,” including an annual 25-man limit for conference teams.

This year, UGA coach Mark Richt told the AJC that he expects to finish with a recruiting cl**** of between 30-35 players. The Bulldogs already have 30 commitments for 2013, with at least a couple of more targets on both sides of the ball.

How can that be? How can UGA sign 30-35 if there’s a new rule with a 25-man limit?

“Early enrollees.”

The recruiting term will soon, if it’s not already, be as famous as over-signing, which is defined as a college team signing more recruits than they have scholarships available. Over-signing was made famous by coaches like Houston Nutt and Nick Saban.

Early enrollees is the loophole when the SEC talked tough and passed the over-signing rules last year. What are they? Early enrollees are recruits from high school, prep school or junior college that can complete college entrance requirements by midyear (or graduate early) and enroll at a four-year college in January. In some sense, it’s a reward for both the college and the recruits they target for taking care of work early in the classroom.

What’s the big deal about that? If a recruit can enroll early, then he can be “back-counted” toward the previous year’s recruiting cl**** – if the college finished with under 25 signees in that previous year. Note: You must also stay below the overall roster limit of 85 players, too. This is how UGA will finish with a recruiting cl**** of 30-35, even though all of them won’t count toward the 2013 numbers.

[palisooner]

Well, how many did UGA sign last year? And if they cut scholarship players from the previous signing cl****, does that mean they can replace with early enrollees this January?

[OU812]

So, they can sign 35 guys with 10 EEs? Does that mean they only signed 15 guys last year? My guess is No. It's all window dressing as nothing has changed. The SEC does whatever it wants. The only reason the entire conference isn't on probation is bc the NCAA simply stopped looking their way, or is being paid to look the other way.

[greensooner]

So, they can sign 35 guys with 10 EEs? Does that mean they only signed 15 guys last year? My guess is No. It's all window dressing as nothing has changed. The SEC does whatever it wants. The only reason the entire conference isn't on probation is bc the NCAA simply stopped looking their way, or is being paid to look the other way.

well you'd have to look back at more than just one cl**** to see how the EE's effected each year prior

in the case of Georgia, if they sign 35 and have 10 EE's that means 10 count against the 2012 cl****...now they could have signed 25 in the 2012 cl**** as well but had some EE's for the 2011 cl**** and that can be the situation they are facing

prob not as bad as it seems honestly

[TenYards]

Has any other team gotten more praise for doing nothing than Jawja?

[TeLeFaWx]

Are you a moron? The practice of greyshirting and pulling scholarships at the last second was reason for the 25 man limit that the SEC agreed to. No other league has. Back counting isn't doing that to anyone. You still have 85 scholarships. Deal with it.

[meandmybutt]

Some of those commits wont sign..... Change their minds by February. Non issue until february shakes out

[greensooner]

Some of those commits wont sign..... Change their minds by February. Non issue until february shakes out

some also won't make it in academically

[greensooner]

Are you a moron? The practice of greyshirting and pulling scholarships at the last second was reason for the 25 man limit that the SEC agreed to. No other league has. Back counting isn't doing that to anyone. You still have 85 scholarships. Deal with it.

A&M, the gheyist college in the history of NCAA athletics...didn't allow women until 1963, have all male cheerleaders and this happens in the stands...you deal with it phaggot...none of you ****s like **** apparently



Again, this is **** as ****...deal with it



If I ask any male A&M student if they like **** or ****, the answer is obviously not ****.

[usaosooner]

EE are fine. that is apart of the system.

[Soonerlife]

Are you a moron? The practice of greyshirting and pulling scholarships at the last second was reason for the 25 man limit that the SEC agreed to. No other league has. Back counting isn't doing that to anyone. You still have 85 scholarships. Deal with it.

Funny just a year ago you would have been on here screaming that the SEC was cheating, now you apologize for it

[TeLeFaWx]

Funny just a year ago you would have been on here screaming that the SEC was cheating, now you apologize for it

Is the SEC trapdooring anyone or something? I'm curious how it should be seen as cheating.

[Soonerlife]

Is the SEC trapdooring anyone or something? I'm curious how it should be seen as cheating.

Over your head but you are an aggie so..

[xunil]

EE are fine. that is apart of the system.

It's not about early entrees.. It's about running off 8-10 players a year because new recruits might pan out better than they did, even if they're doing all the right things. Over a period of 3 or 4 years that program might have access to another 30-40 players while still remaining at the 85 limit. On the other hand, coaches with integrity pay for their evaluation mistakes by having 4 kickers on scholarship for 3 years.

[OUrage]

It's not about early entrees.. It's about running off 8-10 players a year because new recruits might pan out better than they did, even if they're doing all the right things. Over a period of 3 or 4 years that program might have access to another 30-40 players while still remaining at the 85 limit. On the other hand, coaches with integrity pay for their evaluation mistakes by having 4 kickers on scholarship for 3 years.

Do you prefer integrity over National Championships? If the rules allow it and you choose not to follow suit is it a matter of integrity or stupidity?

[OkieforOU]

It would be unethical if you pull ships from kids who are injured or have other probs. Stoops suspended two WR's last year (and kicked one) but did not pull their scholly. It would have been better for OU to pull their scholly since neither played this year. I'm thinking that's what Saban or Lester Miles would have done?? Am I being unfair?

[party1234]

A&m fans really adopted the sec label quickly.

[MI Sooner]

1) OU does the same thing, having EEs apply to prior years to stay among the annual signing limits, and 2) ****s here complaining about pulling scholarships obviously haven't thought through how that doesn't impact the annual 25 man limit. Cutting players currently on scholarship might help get under the 85 man limit, but it doesn't help you get under your limit of 25 scholarship freshmen enrolled in a school year. I'm not sure how grey shirting affects this (does the limit apply to freshmen, or to all new scholarships handed out). But if you want think grey-shirting in unethical and refuse to do it, but still can't beat out schools for grey-shirted players, you suck at recruiting.

[ShorthornSlaya]

Remember how all the SEC apologists would have you beleive that they did not oversign or over recuit? And then the SEC passed a rule against oversigning and over recruiting?

Go ahead and peep out how many commits a &m has...... 34?..... MmmmmmmK
How can UGA sign 30-35 recruits under the SEC’s new over-signing rules?


1:35 pm December 23, 2012, by Michael Carvell

Last year, the SEC passed new rules on “over-signing,” including an annual 25-man limit for conference teams.

This year, UGA coach Mark Richt told the AJC that he expects to finish with a recruiting cl**** of between 30-35 players. The Bulldogs already have 30 commitments for 2013, with at least a couple of more targets on both sides of the ball.

How can that be? How can UGA sign 30-35 if there’s a new rule with a 25-man limit?

“Early enrollees.”

The recruiting term will soon, if it’s not already, be as famous as over-signing, which is defined as a college team signing more recruits than they have scholarships available. Over-signing was made famous by coaches like Houston Nutt and Nick Saban.

Early enrollees is the loophole when the SEC talked tough and passed the over-signing rules last year. What are they? Early enrollees are recruits from high school, prep school or junior college that can complete college entrance requirements by midyear (or graduate early) and enroll at a four-year college in January. In some sense, it’s a reward for both the college and the recruits they target for taking care of work early in the classroom.

What’s the big deal about that? If a recruit can enroll early, then he can be “back-counted” toward the previous year’s recruiting cl**** – if the college finished with under 25 signees in that previous year. Note: You must also stay below the overall roster limit of 85 players, too. This is how UGA will finish with a recruiting cl**** of 30-35, even though all of them won’t count toward the 2013 numbers.

[OkieforOU]

1) OU does the same thing, having EEs apply to prior years to stay among the annual signing limits, and 2) ****s here complaining about pulling scholarships obviously haven't thought through how that doesn't impact the annual 25 man limit. Cutting players currently on scholarship might help get under the 85 man limit, but it doesn't help you get under your limit of 25 scholarship freshmen enrolled in a school year. I'm not sure how grey shirting affects this (does the limit apply to freshmen, or to all new scholarships handed out). But if you want think grey-shirting in unethical and refuse to do it, but still can't beat out schools for grey-shirted players, you suck at recruiting.

If you happen to have 25 scholarships available and you fill them all. Then you have another great recruit that wants to come to your school and can enroll early, by pulling a scholarship of a player already attending your school it would allow you to bring the 26th (27th, 28th) recruit in as an early enrollee, right??
So you pull the ship of a guy who has been surreptitiously flipping you the bird all year at practice and bring in another ESPN top 150 recruit. It doesn't allow you to go over 85 but it does allow you to try a guy out for a year or two and then get rid of him if he doesn't work out and replace him that same year.

[xunil]

Do you prefer integrity over National Championships? If the rules allow it and you choose not to follow suit is it a matter of integrity or stupidity?

This isn't the NFL... It's college and taking a kid who is giving his all to the program and throwing him to the curb for this joke of a national championship is beyond pathetic.

[OUrage]

This isn't the NFL... It's college and taking a kid who is giving his all to the program and throwing him to the curb for this joke of a national championship is beyond pathetic.

And if he's a lazy piece fo crap?

[xunil]

And if he's a lazy piece fo crap?

Not the same thing.. If the kid isn't doing his part then there shouldn't be any hard feelings about it.

[TheBoots]

1) blah-blah-blah-I'm not sure how grey shirting affects this-blah-blah-blah

[boomermagic]

Not the same thing.. If the kid isn't doing his part then there shouldn't be any hard feelings about it.

Bob, Saban, Most college coaches today do not let out much info on who is lazy and who isn't.. So, How do we know WHY a player is replaced ? WE DON'T.

[TideatMilehigh]

Oversigning killed my cat.

[SoonerSpock]

Georgia signed 19 players in their 2012 cl**** per Rivals. To have 10 early enrollee scholarships available it would be necessary for 4 of the 19 from last years cl**** to not qualify, not enroll, leave early for personal reasons or be cut by the university which would get them down to the necessary 15 players in the 2012 cl****.

[ecdawg]

A few comments about this thread:

1. UGA has never released a player for any reason other than disciplinary purposes.

2. You guys you tend to apply the sins of some SEC members to all schools. UGA has never oversigned. In fact, there are number schools of never done so -including Florida.

3. There is nothing unusual or underhanded about counting-back scholarships. I imagine that Oklahoma does it as well. Last year Georgia signed 18 players. 3 of those players counted-back to the previous year by enrolling early. Therefore, Georgia signed 15 players last year that counted against the 2012 cl****. Remember that players can only be counted back to the extent that there were fewer than 25 signees in the previous cl****. Just because a kid is an early enrollee does not mean he can be counted back – UGA should have 18 early enrollees this year.

UGA actually undersigned in 2012. Last fall there were 68 scholarship players to begin the season. That number was the result of attrition (both medical and disciplinary) and recruiting misses. [A commenter further down the page alludes to the meme of Georgia doing less with more. Actually, UGA did pretty well this year considering it had 20% fewer scholarship players than… say… Oklahoma or Alabama.]

Georgia will not, in all likelihood, sign 35 players this year but even if they do the 85 player limit will not be violated and no one will be cut in order to avoid exceeding 85 scholarships.

Oversigning at UGA is a myth. Carvell at AJC was trolling.

[OU Pepperoni]

Early enrolling sounds like a great strategy. Why in the hell aren't we doing it?

[greensooner]

Early enrolling sounds like a great strategy. Why in the hell aren't we doing it?

not sure if serious?!?

we haz done it and will continue to

[usaosooner]

Early enrolling sounds like a great strategy. Why in the hell aren't we doing it?

We EE.

[boomermagic]

A few comments about this thread:

1. UGA has never released a player for any reason other than disciplinary purposes.

2. You guys you tend to apply the sins of some SEC members to all schools. UGA has never oversigned. In fact, there are number schools of never done so -including Florida.

3. There is nothing unusual or underhanded about counting-back scholarships. I imagine that Oklahoma does it as well. Last year Georgia signed 18 players. 3 of those players counted-back to the previous year by enrolling early. Therefore, Georgia signed 15 players last year that counted against the 2012 cl****. Remember that players can only be counted back to the extent that there were fewer than 25 signees in the previous cl****. Just because a kid is an early enrollee does not mean he can be counted back – UGA should have 18 early enrollees this year.

UGA actually undersigned in 2012. Last fall there were 68 scholarship players to begin the season. That number was the result of attrition (both medical and disciplinary) and recruiting misses. [A commenter further down the page alludes to the meme of Georgia doing less with more. Actually, UGA did pretty well this year considering it had 20% fewer scholarship players than… say… Oklahoma or Alabama.]

Georgia will not, in all likelihood, sign 35 players this year but even if they do the 85 player limit will not be violated and no one will be cut in order to avoid exceeding 85 scholarships.

Oversigning at UGA is a myth. Carvell at AJC was trolling.

Some of our fans get carried away thinking every team that does well and every successful coach MUST be cheating. I'm sure some are but most aren't.

[MI Sooner]

If you happen to have 25 scholarships available and you fill them all. Then you have another great recruit that wants to come to your school and can enroll early, by pulling a scholarship of a player already attending your school it would allow you to bring the 26th (27th, 28th) recruit in as an early enrollee, right??
So you pull the ship of a guy who has been surreptitiously flipping you the bird all year at practice and bring in another ESPN top 150 recruit. It doesn't allow you to go over 85 but it does allow you to try a guy out for a year or two and then get rid of him if he doesn't work out and replace him that same year.

You can only have an EE count against the prior year if you have less than 25 in the prior year.

[MI Sooner]

@TheBoots: Good point, dumb****.

[xunil]

Some of our fans get carried away thinking every team that does well and every successful coach MUST be cheating. I'm sure some are but most aren't.

Florida and Georgia deserve credit for having administration who have come out against it.. they are the exception to the rule in the SEC.

Georgia head coach Mark Richt has condemned the process, saying "I don't want to oversign, then tell one of the kids we've already got, 'You've got no value to us' and toss him aside. I'm not going to do that."

[deadserious]

A&M folks/fans are already worried about word getting out they are getting dirty and/or paying players. Don't ask for a source. But, it's a legit concern atop the big boy ranks. The worry is that their squeaky clean image is at stake. Very early, but there are concerns. I hope OU ****ing NEVER joins the ranks of the SEC. That conference will one day crumble.

[TeLeFaWx]

A&M folks/fans are already worried about word getting out they are getting dirty and/or paying players. Don't ask for a source. But, it's a legit concern atop the big boy ranks. The worry is that their squeaky clean image is at stake. Very early, but there are concerns. I hope OU ****ing NEVER joins the ranks of the SEC. That conference will one day crumble.

Do tell how you are in the know amongst big boy Aggies. I have my popcorn ready.

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[TheBoots]

@TheBoots: Good point, dumb****.

I thought so. Feel free to educate yourself on the subject.

[TheBoots]

Some of our fans get carried away thinking every team that does well and every successful coach MUST be cheating. I'm sure some are but most aren't.

For those of you who think the AJC article was about nothing, I am telling you that you are wrong.

In 2009, the SEC changed it's own rules to curb the oversigning that they readily admit they were doing and that it gave them an advantage that other teams did not have. Almost every coach in the SEC fought against the change.

It is still an issue.

The SEC is still working to have the NCAA change recruiting rules that would allow for activities currently banned .

The SEC is currently working to address the back counting of players and how the cap is impacted.

Much in the same way that they still need to address the disgraceful grey shirting.

Now, before all the ad homenim attacks commence, at least stop to ask why the SEC is deeply involved in changing the rules when there is / was no problem.

[deadserious]

Do tell how you are in the know amongst big boy Aggies. I have my popcorn ready.

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Don't worry about it, podna.

[greensooner]

Do tell how you are in the know amongst big boy Aggies. I have my popcorn ready.

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you mean the "big boys" as in the ones who are so zealous to feel important that they leaked every bit of information about the move to the SEC just to stick it to Texas

more like "childish ****ers" is what I'd call them...you couldn't beat Texas before, hell you couldn't beat OU before and were mediocre in the Big 12; so you ran away...don't think this year is indicative of your future seasons in the SEC

You gies tend to overvalue yourselves, enjoy those fake championship claims on the outside of your stadium b/c you will never win one in the SEC. Hell, you only won 1 Big 12 championship.

[TeLeFaWx]

you mean the "big boys" as in the ones who are so zealous to feel important that they leaked every bit of information about the move to the SEC just to stick it to Texas

more like "childish ****ers" is what I'd call them...you couldn't beat Texas before, hell you couldn't beat OU before and were mediocre in the Big 12; so you ran away...don't think this year is indicative of your future seasons in the SEC

You gies tend to overvalue yourselves, enjoy those fake championship claims on the outside of your stadium b/c you will never win one in the SEC. Hell, you only won 1 Big 12 championship.

It amazes me that yall are STILL so butthurt over the SEC move. We get it. We left you for greener pastures. You tried to go to the Pac 12, but you are tied to little brother, and such a weak academic institution, Larry Scott didn't want to touch you with a 10 foot pole. Now you are stuck playing irrelevant schools week after week, and your glory will fade right along with your strength of schedule. We hated the Big 12, but we know you loved it. But don't be mad at us. It was a forced marriage to begin with, and before the Big 12, we had absolutely dominated yall. You liked the old scenario. We like the new one. Sorry we flipped the script.

[soonerprices]

It amazes me that yall are STILL so butthurt over the SEC move. We get it. We left you for greener pastures. You tried to go to the Pac 12, but you are tied to little brother, and such a weak academic institution, Larry Scott didn't want to touch you with a 10 foot pole. Now you are stuck playing irrelevant schools week after week, and your glory will fade right along with your strength of schedule. We hated the Big 12, but we know you loved it. But don't be mad at us. It was a forced marriage to begin with, and before the Big 12, we had absolutely dominated yall. You liked the old scenario. We like the new one. Sorry we flipped the script.

It's been one year.

[greensooner]

It amazes me that yall are STILL so butthurt over the SEC move. We get it. We left you for greener pastures. You tried to go to the Pac 12, but you are tied to little brother, and such a weak academic institution, Larry Scott didn't want to touch you with a 10 foot pole. Now you are stuck playing irrelevant schools week after week, and your glory will fade right along with your strength of schedule. We hated the Big 12, but we know you loved it. But don't be mad at us. It was a forced marriage to begin with, and before the Big 12, we had absolutely dominated yall. You liked the old scenario. We like the new one. Sorry we flipped the script.

quit acting like you made some huge game-changing move already, you and most of your fans are a bunch of whiny little ****es who inflate their self worth

the SEC came calling to get their footprints in Texas and took you to get it...you go 10-2 and all of a sudden you think you're on par with Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia

You are a 3rd-tier school and always have been, you're dog**** on the foot of the Big 12 and the SEC...that's the issue, you have one season in the SEC and think you're hot **** all of a sudden

newsflash ****head, we aren't going anywhere and our tradition will remain...at least we don't have to make that **** up

enjoy your **** OOC schedule, we actually play people OOC and the Big 12 is as good now as it was when you were here...you didn't bring much to the conference that we didn't already have and the loss of A&M didn't do anything to us geographically, financially or in any manner of competition

[greensooner]

It's been one year.

that's the thing with Aggies, they think they are the most prestigious school in the country and think this is the norm...they don't realize they haven't really been relevant in forever

[soonerprices]

Green sooner is pretty much spot on. The SEC said let me stroke your ego for just a little while so later I can molest you in the recruiting department in your own back yard.

[TeLeFaWx]

quit acting like you made some huge game-changing move already, you and most of your fans are a bunch of whiny little ****es who inflate their self worth

the SEC came calling to get their footprints in Texas and took you to get it...you go 10-2 and all of a sudden you think you're on par with Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia

You are a 3rd-tier school and always have been, you're dog**** on the foot of the Big 12 and the SEC...that's the issue, you have one season in the SEC and think you're hot **** all of a sudden

newsflash ****head, we aren't going anywhere and our tradition will remain...at least we don't have to make that **** up

enjoy your **** OOC schedule, we actually play people OOC and the Big 12 is as good now as it was when you were here...you didn't bring much to the conference that we didn't already have and the loss of A&M didn't do anything to us geographically, financially or in any manner of competition

We did make a huge game changing move. It is so delicious that you continue to deny it. When you get stomped in the Cotton Bowl, maybe your tune will change.

[soonerprices]

We did make a huge game changing move. It is so delicious that you continue to deny it. When you get stomped in the Cotton Bowl, maybe your tune will change.

What is the biggest thing that changed?

[TeLeFaWx]

What is the biggest thing that changed?

1. Conference
2. Recruiting
3. Coaching
4. QB
5. Relevant games of our in-state and Oklahoman neighbors.

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[greensooner]

We did make a huge game changing move. It is so delicious that you continue to deny it. When you get stomped in the Cotton Bowl, maybe your tune will change.

childish answer yet again...of course a sample size of 1 game is enough for you aggies to think whatever happens in this game will establish some type of dominance to show that A&M is now on top of the world...hell all it takes is one win for you guys to get elated enough to think national championship

that must make it easy for you to deal with when they suck, and when you have a good year you just jump right back on the wagon

We're 19-11 against you all time yet you act like you've already won this game. We played you guys every year for the past 16 years and are 11-5 yet you think this game is going to be a cakewalk...must have gained that SEC speed everyone is talking about with the switch

Don't you remember 77-0 and us winning 8 of the last 9? That **** doesn't matter to you though because a conversation with Aggies must include throwing rationale and facts out the window.