I also must say that you said "works is anything of man". Well man did not make up baptism. In fact the scripture in Mark 16 are Jesus's own word.
Re: Heaven and Hell: I dont think either exist. I think we all get sub-atomically recycled, eventually.
but when on one hand you say baptism by immersion is required for salvation....and on the other you say everyone must work out their own salvation.....you're being inconsistent at best....and dishonest at worst....
for instance....you cited 1 peter 3:20....(should have been 21)......21 "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also"
but you didn't include the rest of the verse...."not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God."
and you didn't enclude 20....20 "to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,"
where peter is comparing the water that saved noah to the baptismal waters that save us.....
i'm sure john the baptist didn't come up with baptism on his own..
but again....when you quote scripture....quote the WHOLE verse....
mark 16: 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
why didn't Jesus say "whoever does not believe AND IS NOT BAPTIZED will be condemned?
Even Christians amongst themselves cant agree who should be condemned to hell!!!
Funny how alot of christians condemn people to hell. Isnt that a sin? I thought only god could judge.
So basically I'm 100% good.
It's all pretty clear isn't it 87.
87 is a baptist, so are they.
87 is a jesus freak, so are they.
87 thinks homosexuality is a sin, so do they.
87 quotes bible verses at ill opportune times, so do they.
If you dont already know it, YOU ARE the Westboro Baptist.
Let me tell you why it's an intellectually dishonest question...
You have predetermined the groundwork that bad people ought not have an easy pass into heaven on account of simply asking for forgiveness last minute ("It seems a bit unfair that someone can ruin so many lives and get off easy as long as he asks for forgiveness in an honest way. I think God needs to revise some policies." ...This response elicited well before anyone gave you a serious, thorough answer). You brought this supposition to the table without revealing your hand knowing that you will likely get a simple answer (cue 87's one word response "Heaven").
Perhaps more egregious than the suppositions that you bring to the table though, is the way you frame a complex question in such a cut and dry way, while simultaneously being unwilling to accept the answer you are sure you're going to get.
With terms like "'real' heart to heart" and "completely honest way" left absolutely undefined and nondescript, the other end of the line is left to make assumptions about your diction to fit with their understanding of the concepts you're prying at. This leads to an oversimplified answer that will certainly be unacceptable or "silly"."If someone shot up a school and shortly after had a very "real" heart to heart with God and asked for forgiveness in a completely honest way, would he/she go to Heaven or Hell?"
The answers to the questions you ask won't work, not because they are in and of themselves wrong, but because they are incapable of adequately addressing the question posed at the onset.
This is why many of us are weary of "dialoguing" with you about religion. Next time, I recommend starting this particular conversation with something like this: "It makes little sense to me that a man could commit an atrocity and shortly thereafter ask Jesus into his heart and be granted access to an eternity in heaven. Could someone please bring more definition to the components of this doctrine and describe how it actually functions theologically for those of us who don't understand how this belief could possibly be _______ (Moral, Just, Rational, etc.)?"
What about priests that sodomize little boys? Do they get in?
I still try not to judge anyone even though Paul tells us to judge other Christians. But I think that more than likely he meant to point out errors in their path to salvation. So if I see my brother getting drunk and going to the titty bar, I should discourage that behavior....but I shouldn't tell him he is going to hell for it.
my wife's parents/brothers/grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins are/were catholic...
i have met dozens more in college/air force...
i would say i have a pretty good sample size...
i don't know why some of them believe that way.....if it is a catholic belief.....a tradition borne of arrogance/pride...or misunderstanding....
but it exists....and it is definitely not made up my me....
87 is way too hip and funny to be Westboro.
Luke 22: 39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us! 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong. 42 And he said, Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. 43 And he said to him, Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.
first person that I will be putting on ignore in my message board existence. you really add nothing as a poster, not even entertainment. atleast socali can be entertaining as an ****