OU can learn from the Florida State Defense

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  1. #1

    OU vs. A&M Cotton Bowl OU can learn from the Florida State Defense

    northern Illinois has their version of Johnney Football and FSU defended him well. I think OU could have some success using the same defense. Can't wait till game time.

  2. #2
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    OU can learn from the Florida State Defense

    Eh... Lynch was throwing to a bunch of one star receivers behind an O-Line full of 1 star players. I wouldn't take too much from this.

  3. #3
    While reading your post, I started thinking about the talent discrepancy between our defense and FSU's, and then I got sad.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by the_edge View Post
    While reading your post, I started thinking about the talent discrepancy between our defense and FSU's, and then I got sad.
    Well, you're wrong.

    Think about what you would have said about the talent discrepancy between our defense and FSU's in mid-September 2010. Or mid-September last year even. These are mostly the same players from those two games.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Jbaker View Post
    Well, you're wrong.

    Think about what you would have said about the talent discrepancy between our defense and FSU's in mid-September 2010. Or mid-September last year even. These are mostly the same players from those two games.
    Our offense is far better than Florida State's, THAT is why we beat them in 2010 and 2011. We could name our score against NIU.

    As for the defenses, I'd trade their front seven for ours. We may actually have a better secondary, but I don't think that anybody has been down on the secondary this season.
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  6. #6
    An OU FSU match up would have been a better game. FSU really got a 'Gimme" for a game. BCS still screwed up on some of the Bowl mach ups.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by SoonerDick View Post
    northern Illinois has their version of Johnney Football and FSU defended him well. I think OU could have some success using the same defense. Can't wait till game time.
    I don't know that NI has a single player on offense that could start for A&M, in fact I am certain of it. Lynch isn't nearly as fast, elusive, or accurate as JFF either. Just very hard to make a comparison as the biggest difference in this game has been FSU has been dominating the LOS and that seems very unlikely when you look at the A&M OL vs the OU DL.

    The key for OU is going to be to disguise coverages and confuse him into making mistakes. Trying to out physical A&M is going to be extremely difficult.

  8. #8
    OU can't learn a damned thing from FSU's performance tonight.

    Texas A&M has a far superior RB corps, and the disparity between NIU's OL and A&M's OL is so severe that it actually hurts to think about. What FSU did, they got away with because they could physically dominate the line of scrimmage on defense. NIU's OL struggled with good MAC teams, and FSU's got a 1st team AA on their DL. OU's DL is so thin that Stacy McGee's suspension is going to force us to move David King to DT for half the game. Texas A&M's tackles are both likely to play on Sundays. Their interior OL isn't too shabby, either.

    We can't learn anything from this because we don't have the personnel to execute any of it.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by SoonerDick View Post
    northern Illinois has their version of Johnney Football and FSU defended him well. I think OU could have some success using the same defense. Can't wait till game time.
    you will have to forgive some posters on this board...they don't always think through what they say. Yes Lynch and NIU are really not as athletic or as talented as johnny football and A&M...but you are correct in the fact they can learn from their defense...especially the fundamentals. Don't rush up field from the end, fill gaps and be patient, and blitz with a safety or db to get pressure, but everyone hold their lanes. But they don't have to learn this...this is what we have always attempted to do against running/throwing qbs and have faired better than most people want to admit. Even RG3 last year was not having a bery god game until ronnel lewis went out injured and the replacement ran upfield too far and let him out (well and he bounced a pass off someone's helmet...). DT and DEs have to be patient and not push too far up field. Just like FSU did tonight.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by soonerker View Post
    you will have to forgive some posters on this board...they don't always think through what they say.
    Ladies and Gentlemen of the Board, I give you the having-thought-through sayings of Mr. Mike Stoops:
    Last edited by OrangeBlossom; January 2nd, 2013 at 12:01 PM. Reason: Fixed quote

  11. #11
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    FSU has something we really don't have, superior DL. Also, a&m OL will probably be the best OU faces this season.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by soonerker View Post
    you will have to forgive some posters on this board...they don't always think through what they say. Yes Lynch and NIU are really not as athletic or as talented as johnny football and A&M...but you are correct in the fact they can learn from their defense...especially the fundamentals. Don't rush up field from the end, fill gaps and be patient, and blitz with a safety or db to get pressure, but everyone hold their lanes. But they don't have to learn this...this is what we have always attempted to do against running/throwing qbs and have faired better than most people want to admit. Even RG3 last year was not having a bery god game until ronnel lewis went out injured and the replacement ran upfield too far and let him out (well and he bounced a pass off someone's helmet...). DT and DEs have to be patient and not push too far up field. Just like FSU did tonight.
    This is an absolutely horrible analysis. Basically, this is akin to saying that "All you need to do to nail hot chicks is be rich, fit, and have a huge ****." It's true, but it's a completely ****ing useless statement that doesn't move the discussion forward at all.

    It's a lot more than A&M being more talented than NIU. It's understanding how the matchups dictate your game plan. You have to understand that matching up Bjoern Werner (1st team AA DE for FSU) against Luke Joeckel (1st team AA LT for A&M) is one thing. Matching up Werner against Tyler Loos (2nd team All MAC LT for NIU) is an entirely different discussion. It changes what FSU can do with their LB corps. For example, let's tear apart your idea:

    "Don't rush up field from the end"
    OU hasn't succeeded in doing so all year, so there's one down. Of course, when you aren't a threat to do so even when you need to, it becomes a very serious problem.

    "fill gaps and be patient"
    It's that easy? WOW! Thanks, Rex Ryan! Now all we need are personnel who can fill those gaps consistently. Of course, we've shown throughout the year that we DO NOT HAVE that type of personnel. Our personnel, particularly at DT, are one-gap DT's who are better at getting upfield than holding a spot and defending two gaps (as we've asked them to do all year).

    Additionally, what do we do when their OL blow our guys smooth out of the gaps? A&M isn't lining up in the damned I-formation. They're going 4 and 5 wide. That brings me to...

    "blitz with a safety or db to get pressure"

    Either the safety won't get there in time, or Sumlin will audible Manziel into a different play. Thanks for stopping by.

  13. #13
    We just need Williams to do more falcon punching
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    Last edited by OrangeBlossom; January 2nd, 2013 at 12:04 PM.

  14. #14
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    OU can learn from the Florida State Defense

    What FSU did on defense was simply run man coverage the entire night while their DLine blew up NIU's OLine. Then Lynch would run for his life and get creamed. It wasn't any kind of genius game planning. It was simply out talenting the other team.

    We can't take anything from this game.
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  15. #15
    Nice mixture of opinions. I think it is the defensive concept that Mike will have in place. Some of it is lane coverage and trying to help Johnny Football make mistakes in his passing game. TAM had some close games this year as dis OU. I think it will be one of the more entertaining games of the Bowl season.

  16. #16
    I hope Oklahoma plays much better than FSU. Northern Illini should have never been in this game especially late into the third qtr. FSU is overrated and shouild have beaten these guys by 35 or more. If OU plays like FSU the ags will beat us by 35. Count me not impressed.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Jbaker View Post
    Well, you're wrong.

    Think about what you would have said about the talent discrepancy between our defense and FSU's in mid-September 2010. Or mid-September last year even. These are mostly the same players from those two games.
    Really?

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by SoonerDick View Post
    An OU FSU match up would have been a better game. FSU really got a 'Gimme" for a game. BCS still screwed up on some of the Bowl mach ups.
    FSU toyed with NIU. It was a game for awhile because FSU's qb and coach are not too bright!!! The coach can recruit but his preparation was lacking!!!

  19. #19
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    I didn't see FSU toying. I saw a very average qb and a bunch of receivers stumbling and dropping balls on offense, with the decent defense. Offense pretty inept. I think we'd beat NIU by 60.
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by CNCSOONER View Post
    I hope Oklahoma plays much better than FSU. Northern Illini should have never been in this game especially late into the third qtr. FSU is overrated and shouild have beaten these guys by 35 or more. If OU plays like FSU the ags will beat us by 35. Count me not impressed.
    FSUs defense played great in this game and if their offense would have done their job, they would have put up 70 on NIU.

    FSUs front 4 are beasts. Bjorn Werner is a top 5 pick in the draft.

  21. #21
    Originally Posted by NateHeupelESQ View Post
    This is an absolutely horrible analysis. Basically, this is akin to saying that "All you need to do to nail hot chicks is be rich, fit, and have a huge ****." It's true, but it's a completely ****ing useless statement that doesn't move the discussion forward at all.

    It's a lot more than A&M being more talented than NIU. It's understanding how the matchups dictate your game plan. You have to understand that matching up Bjoern Werner (1st team AA DE for FSU) against Luke Joeckel (1st team AA LT for A&M) is one thing. Matching up Werner against Tyler Loos (2nd team All MAC LT for NIU) is an entirely different discussion. It changes what FSU can do with their LB corps. For example, let's tear apart your idea:

    "Don't rush up field from the end"
    OU hasn't succeeded in doing so all year, so there's one down. Of course, when you aren't a threat to do so even when you need to, it becomes a very serious problem.

    "fill gaps and be patient"
    It's that easy? WOW! Thanks, Rex Ryan! Now all we need are personnel who can fill those gaps consistently. Of course, we've shown throughout the year that we DO NOT HAVE that type of personnel. Our personnel, particularly at DT, are one-gap DT's who are better at getting upfield than holding a spot and defending two gaps (as we've asked them to do all year).

    Additionally, what do we do when their OL blow our guys smooth out of the gaps? A&M isn't lining up in the damned I-formation. They're going 4 and 5 wide. That brings me to...

    "blitz with a safety or db to get pressure"

    Either the safety won't get there in time, or Sumlin will audible Manziel into a different play. Thanks for stopping by.

    Watch the Alabama v A&M game and see what they changed after the first quarter...and btw I am so glad that someone with vast football experience and knowledge corrected my opinions and even thanked me for stopping by. Scheme still means something and makes a difference.

  22. #22
    Originally Posted by zevogolf View Post
    FSU toyed with NIU. It was a game for awhile because FSU's qb and coach are not too bright!!! The coach can recruit but his preparation was lacking!!!
    Correct! FSU ran up over 500 yards total offense but was only 3 of 15 on 3rd down conversions. Fisher is supposed to be the offensive genius but couildn't figure out how to use a 50 lb per man advantage on the o-line and jam the ball down NIU's throat. Manual has to be the most inconsistent QB in college football. For every pass he throws on target he throws either a gopher killer or a fan killer in the front row of the stands. A decent OC would have had the 3rd teamers playing by half time.

  23. #23
    Originally Posted by soonerker View Post
    Watch the Alabama v A&M game and see what they changed after the first quarter...and btw I am so glad that someone with vast football experience and knowledge corrected my opinions and even thanked me for stopping by. Scheme still means something and makes a difference.
    As long as Nick Saban is nice enough to loan OU some of his players this strategy is a good one. Bama was able to slow A&M's offense with some really exceptional defensive plays including some big time DB play on Mike Evans (with some officials that wouldn't call PI) and one particularly amazing run down of Manziel on a 4th down where he stopped him just short. Still, A&M was able to move the ball for FGA's and the winning TD drive.

    Auburn, Miss State, and Mizzou all tried the same thing and got lit up. The key for OU is going to be trying to confuse Manziel into making bad decisions. Ole Miss did this well as did LSU. Sam Houston actually had a bit of success doing this as well but it is relative as Manziel left after one play in the 2nd half up 49-0. I really don't think going toe to toe is going to work out well for OU as there just isn't enough speed and size in the Front 7.

  24. #24
    Originally Posted by nolesooner View Post
    FSUs defense played great in this game and if their offense would have done their job, they would have put up 70 on NIU.

    FSUs front 4 are beasts. Bjorn Werner is a top 5 pick in the draft.
    D should play great against and inferior opponent. Im still not impressed with the Noles.

  25. #25
    Originally Posted by aggressor View Post
    As long as Nick Saban is nice enough to loan OU some of his players this strategy is a good one. Bama was able to slow A&M's offense with some really exceptional defensive plays including some big time DB play on Mike Evans (with some officials that wouldn't call PI) and one particularly amazing run down of Manziel on a 4th down where he stopped him just short. Still, A&M was able to move the ball for FGA's and the winning TD drive.

    Auburn, Miss State, and Mizzou all tried the same thing and got lit up. The key for OU is going to be trying to confuse Manziel into making bad decisions. Ole Miss did this well as did LSU. Sam Houston actually had a bit of success doing this as well but it is relative as Manziel left after one play in the 2nd half up 49-0. I really don't think going toe to toe is going to work out well for OU as there just isn't enough speed and size in the Front 7.
    You should be worried about how aTm is going to stop OU instead of chirping about what it's going to take to stop Manziel. You played all season in a conference that runs old style offenses (none of which finished ranked above 40th in the nation) and doesn't have any running QB's, or offenses that play at a hurried pace, to speak of. You played one good offense all season long and they put 57 on your defense. You got by in the SEC on surprising people and catching them unprepared. You played three good teams and went 1-3. The rest of your schedule was a joke. Even Saban himself said he didn't have anybody on roster to simulate manziel in practice or keep up with his pace. We face aTm's every week in the Big XII. Baylor, WVU, and Ok State are just as good as aTm offensively. In fact, if aTm was still in the Big XII, Manziel doesn't win the Heisman because he doesn't stand out enough among his peers like he does in the peerless SEC.
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  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by aggressor View Post

    Trying to out physical A&M is going to be extremely difficult.
    lol oh yeah, i forgot you guys moved to the SEC and instantly became a very physical team. give me a break

  27. #27
    The Orange Bowl was like watching the #1 team in 2A play the #11 team in 6A. FSU should be embarrassed that the game was as close as it was.

  28. #28
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    Originally Posted by CNCSOONER View Post
    D should play great against and inferior opponent. Im still not impressed with the Noles.
    Ok. I don't care if you are impressed with them or not. They have a lot of talent on that defense. Their defense is good...Number 2 in the nation in total defense. Top 5 in probably every defensive category. Their offense is average because of EJ. It's that simple.

  29. #29

  30. #30
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    lol oh yeah, i forgot you guys moved to the SEC and instantly became a very physical team. give me a break
    Kinda what I thought. I read that and laughed out loud. aTm is a super physical team now just because they joined the SEC? HAhahahahahahaha....

  31. #31
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    Originally Posted by Lehmanfan View Post
    FSU has something we really don't have, superior DL.
    YOU SHUT YOUR GOD DAMN MOUTH YOU BLACK ****!!!

  32. #32
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    Originally Posted by mightysooner View Post
    Kinda what I thought. I read that and laughed out loud. aTm is a super physical team now just because they joined the SEC? HAhahahahahahaha....
    They have a better team than last year....with a better coach. But I don't think they are more physical than they have been in the recent past.

  33. #33
    Originally Posted by nolesooner View Post
    Ok. I don't care if you are impressed with them or not. They have a lot of talent on that defense. Their defense is good...Number 2 in the nation in total defense. Top 5 in probably every defensive category. Their offense is average because of EJ. It's that simple.
    Play in a weak conference with weak opponenets. Only decent opponenent was Clemson and yes you beat them but also lost to a bad NC state team. If OU played in the ACC their defensive stats would have been alot more impressive and if FSU played in the Big 12 with spread offenses FSU would be lucky to be in the top 20.

  34. #34
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    Originally Posted by CNCSOONER View Post
    Play in a weak conference with weak opponenets. Only decent opponenent was Clemson and yes you beat them but also lost to a bad NC state team. If OU played in the ACC their defensive stats would have been alot more impressive and if FSU played in the Big 12 with spread offenses FSU would be lucky to be in the top 20.
    We can only assume...but FSU held our offense in check last year.

    And you can't really use NC State as a tool to measure their defense....NC State scored 17 points on a defense that was out there the whole game. Again, the loss falls onto the shoulders of the offense. Same for the UF game. 5 turnovers, 3 by EJ himself. Their offense is their problem....not their defense.

  35. #35
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    Originally Posted by aggressor View Post
    As long as Nick Saban is nice enough to loan OU some of his players this strategy is a good one. Bama was able to slow A&M's offense with some really exceptional defensive plays including some big time DB play on Mike Evans (with some officials that wouldn't call PI) and one particularly amazing run down of Manziel on a 4th down where he stopped him just short. Still, A&M was able to move the ball for FGA's and the winning TD drive.

    Auburn, Miss State, and Mizzou all tried the same thing and got lit up. The key for OU is going to be trying to confuse Manziel into making bad decisions. Ole Miss did this well as did LSU. Sam Houston actually had a bit of success doing this as well but it is relative as Manziel left after one play in the 2nd half up 49-0. I really don't think going toe to toe is going to work out well for OU as there just isn't enough speed and size in the Front 7.
    Hmmm, I figured the Aggies would start trolling someday....welcome Aggie ****tard.

  36. #36
    I was thinking the same thing watching that Stanford oline. Those dudes were stout.

  37. #37
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    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    lol oh yeah, i forgot you guys moved to the SEC and instantly became a very physical team. give me a break
    You're not giving their OL that much credit. Besides johnny God, the A&M strength (OL) plays right into our weakness (DL).

  38. #38
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    OU can learn from the Florida State Defense

    Originally Posted by soonerker View Post
    you will have to forgive some posters on this board...they don't always think through what they say. Yes Lynch and NIU are really not as athletic or as talented as johnny football and A&M...but you are correct in the fact they can learn from their defense...especially the fundamentals. Don't rush up field from the end, fill gaps and be patient, and blitz with a safety or db to get pressure, but everyone hold their lanes. But they don't have to learn this...this is what we have always attempted to do against running/throwing qbs and have faired better than most people want to admit. Even RG3 last year was not having a bery god game until ronnel lewis went out injured and the replacement ran upfield too far and let him out (well and he bounced a pass off someone's helmet...). DT and DEs have to be patient and not push too far up field. Just like FSU did tonight.
    We did this to ND as well.

  39. #39
    Originally Posted by mightysooner View Post
    You should be worried about how aTm is going to stop OU instead of chirping about what it's going to take to stop Manziel. You played all season in a conference that runs old style offenses (none of which finished ranked above 40th in the nation) and doesn't have any running QB's, or offenses that play at a hurried pace, to speak of. You played one good offense all season long and they put 57 on your defense. You got by in the SEC on surprising people and catching them unprepared. You played three good teams and went 1-3. The rest of your schedule was a joke. Even Saban himself said he didn't have anybody on roster to simulate manziel in practice or keep up with his pace. We face aTm's every week in the Big XII. Baylor, WVU, and Ok State are just as good as aTm offensively. In fact, if aTm was still in the Big XII, Manziel doesn't win the Heisman because he doesn't stand out enough among his peers like he does in the peerless SEC.
    Don't disagree A&M has plenty to worry about with your passing offense and I've been consistent about that. I just think our D has a better chance of containing yours. Our first team D is solid, it's just our depth is questionable. I just don't see OU stopping A&M unless Manziel makes a lot of bad decisions. I think the game ends up 40 something to 30 something A&M or in that range because A&M gets more stops. Most of our yardage and points have been either in garbage time or in that La Tech game when we had 5 rotation players out on D and ended up giving up a ton of points in the 2nd half (game started 27-0) when our D was gassed.

    Manziel isn't like anyone in the Big 12 because he is so mobile to go with a very accurate arm. There are plenty of Air Raid/Hurry Up/Spread offenses in the Big 12 but no one has that combined with a crazy elusive speedster like Manziel. Last year RGIII was faster and a legit running threat but not as elusive and he didn't have the talent around him Manziel does (esp on the OL). Dude is just a freak. I guess we will find out Friday if he is just a "peer" to Big 12 QB's though.

  40. #40
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    OU can learn from the Florida State Defense

    Nick Florence says hi

  41. #41
    Originally Posted by aggressor View Post
    As long as Nick Saban is nice enough to loan OU some of his players this strategy is a good one. Bama was able to slow A&M's offense with some really exceptional defensive plays including some big time DB play on Mike Evans (with some officials that wouldn't call PI) and one particularly amazing run down of Manziel on a 4th down where he stopped him just short. Still, A&M was able to move the ball for FGA's and the winning TD drive.

    Auburn, Miss State, and Mizzou all tried the same thing and got lit up. The key for OU is going to be trying to confuse Manziel into making bad decisions. Ole Miss did this well as did LSU. Sam Houston actually had a bit of success doing this as well but it is relative as Manziel left after one play in the 2nd half up 49-0. I really don't think going toe to toe is going to work out well for OU as there just isn't enough speed and size in the Front 7.

    Actually my point is if you watch alabama linemen on passing plays they did not push upfield at all...they kept separation from the lineman and when manziel attempted to run by them, they moved to get him. In the first quarter they were using their strength to push upfield and when the DEs went way up field it created gaps and the DLs overcommitted. If you can keep manziel in the pocket you have a better chance of stopping him...note I said better chance..not that you will stop him.

    Also you mention Auburn, Miss St and Mizzou tried this...but they are horrible on offense and that will not work if you can't move the ball and keep giving the ball back. It isn't going toe to toe in this type of defense...it is actually attempting to make manziel stay in the pocket and have to read more than his first read (which isn't something he does a lot of...he does do it, but for the most part he looks for his first read and if it is not there he runs and creates.).

    Just watching the Florida/louisville game and louisville is setting up the florida defense by allowing the DE to go upfield and opening up running and passing lanes for the qb. It is a good example of how not to play defense against a mobile qb.

  42. #42
    Originally Posted by soonerker View Post
    Actually my point is if you watch alabama linemen on passing plays they did not push upfield at all...they kept separation from the lineman and when manziel attempted to run by them, they moved to get him. In the first quarter they were using their strength to push upfield and when the DEs went way up field it created gaps and the DLs overcommitted. If you can keep manziel in the pocket you have a better chance of stopping him...note I said better chance..not that you will stop him.

    Also you mention Auburn, Miss St and Mizzou tried this...but they are horrible on offense and that will not work if you can't move the ball and keep giving the ball back. It isn't going toe to toe in this type of defense...it is actually attempting to make manziel stay in the pocket and have to read more than his first read (which isn't something he does a lot of...he does do it, but for the most part he looks for his first read and if it is not there he runs and creates.).

    Just watching the Florida/louisville game and louisville is setting up the florida defense by allowing the DE to go upfield and opening up running and passing lanes for the qb. It is a good example of how not to play defense against a mobile qb.
    Bama simply has a lot better athletes on D than OU does. They had the discipline and closing speed to keep up with Manziel, though he still had a Heisman day against them. Manziel also is very good in the pocket and as the year went on he became more and more patient in waiting to run. Below is a video of Manziel's TD's this year and you can see he was in the pocket for those throws quite a bit.

    I do like the Nick Florence comparison. I'm sure Nick could pull off all these plays:


  43. #43
    The SEC has showed to be vastly overrated in every bowl game i have seen so far. OU has always seen scrambling QB's. so its not like aTm invented something new. But i have to admit this will be the first 5'2" scrambler they have faced all year. Color me not real impressed with the aggies. Pretty much the same talent as last year just has a better coach

  44. #44
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    Originally Posted by aggressor View Post
    Don't disagree A&M has plenty to worry about with your passing offense and I've been consistent about that. I just think our D has a better chance of containing yours. Our first team D is solid, it's just our depth is questionable. I just don't see OU stopping A&M unless Manziel makes a lot of bad decisions. I think the game ends up 40 something to 30 something A&M or in that range because A&M gets more stops. Most of our yardage and points have been either in garbage time or in that La Tech game when we had 5 rotation players out on D and ended up giving up a ton of points in the 2nd half (game started 27-0) when our D was gassed.

    Manziel isn't like anyone in the Big 12 because he is so mobile to go with a very accurate arm. There are plenty of Air Raid/Hurry Up/Spread offenses in the Big 12 but no one has that combined with a crazy elusive speedster like Manziel. Last year RGIII was faster and a legit running threat but not as elusive and he didn't have the talent around him Manziel does (esp on the OL). Dude is just a freak. I guess we will find out Friday if he is just a "peer" to Big 12 QB's though.
    Baylor was probably the best team in the country last season at the skill positions. I don't know what you're talking about. He was throwing to an NFL first rounder, a certain NFL first rounder this year (as well as the best receiver in the country this past season), plus he had the best RB in the Big 12 to hand off to and 3 NFL draft picks blocking for him. That Baylor offense last season was one of the best/most talented in the history of college football.

  45. #45
    POBR25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aggressor View Post
    Bama simply has a lot better athletes on D than OU does.
    *Bama simply has a lot better athletes in the front 7 than OU does.

    This Oklahoma secondary is the best in the country.

  46. #46
    Originally Posted by aggressor View Post
    Bama simply has a lot better athletes on D than OU does. They had the discipline and closing speed to keep up with Manziel, though he still had a Heisman day against them. Manziel also is very good in the pocket and as the year went on he became more and more patient in waiting to run. Below is a video of Manziel's TD's this year and you can see he was in the pocket for those throws quite a bit.

    I do like the Nick Florence comparison. I'm sure Nick could pull off all these plays:

    First of all, we've agreed on the base point. OU can't learn a damned thing from FSU's approach, because the talent disparity that FSU enjoyed over NIU isn't there. Quite the opposite, I'd argue A&M's OL vs. OU's DL is a matchup that favors A&M significantly. The best we can do is dust off the K-State game plan, but even then A&M's RB corps is more talented and more effective at getting tough yards.

    That said, are you kidding me with this pocket passing shit? Do you understand what pocket passing is? You take your drop, plant your feet, read the coverage, and make a throw. You move around in the pocket to buy time, but you're not tucking and running on a regular basis. Manziel's pocket passing is limited at best. Why doesn't Manziel do a lot of pocket passing? Because his arm strength is mediocre. Notice how many passes beyond 25 yards there are? Maybe two or three? Now watch Manziel's throwing motion on those passes. He winds up like a top and spins all the way around to muscle the ball downfield. When you've got a guy with Manziel's ability to see the field, set up the defense, and run who also has a passing skill set roughly comparable to that of 2008-9 Colt McCoy, you don't do a lot of pocket passing because it's counterproductive.

  47. #47
    Originally Posted by NateHeupelESQ View Post
    First of all, we've agreed on the base point. OU can't learn a damned thing from FSU's approach, because the talent disparity that FSU enjoyed over NIU isn't there. Quite the opposite, I'd argue A&M's OL vs. OU's DL is a matchup that favors A&M significantly. The best we can do is dust off the K-State game plan, but even then A&M's RB corps is more talented and more effective at getting tough yards.

    That said, are you kidding me with this pocket passing shit? Do you understand what pocket passing is? You take your drop, plant your feet, read the coverage, and make a throw. You move around in the pocket to buy time, but you're not tucking and running on a regular basis. Manziel's pocket passing is limited at best. Why doesn't Manziel do a lot of pocket passing? Because his arm strength is mediocre. Notice how many passes beyond 25 yards there are? Maybe two or three? Now watch Manziel's throwing motion on those passes. He winds up like a top and spins all the way around to muscle the ball downfield. When you've got a guy with Manziel's ability to see the field, set up the defense, and run who also has a passing skill set roughly comparable to that of 2008-9 Colt McCoy, you don't do a lot of pocket passing because it's counterproductive.
    While it is true that Manziel doesn't have exceptional arm strength he does have pocket patience and is very effective from it. More importantly he is very accurate. Against Bama he had multiple passes over 25 yards into tight coverage for big plays. He did the same on a regular basis. Being able to run doesn't mean you can't throw from the pocket.

  48. #48
    Well now that you put it that way maybe i should be getting worried about Manziel. I had no idea Manziel had faced such great DB's in the pass happy SEC week after week.

  49. #49
    Originally Posted by aggressor View Post
    I do like the Nick Florence comparison. I'm sure Nick could pull off all these plays:

    jesus i never realized a&m played so many shitty teams this year
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  50. #50
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    Johnny just needs to be hit one good time and he'll be hesitant to move out of that pocket too much. Who do you guys think will give him a nice ringer? If we don't knock him on his ass he will go buck wild against our D. We couldn't stop Chelf for pete's sake.

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