What needs to happen / observations

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  1. #1
    madbrad's Avatar
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    Stoops What needs to happen / observations

    First off, hello everyone.


    I have been an OU fan since childhood. I have seen the ups as well as the painful downs. Thankfully, we have witnessed more of the former. Folks, this ain't rocket science. This is football. A game where you take physically gifted men and pin them against other physically gifted men and see who comes out victorious. What are you supposed to do when both are equal in terms on physical ability? You outsmart (scheme in our case) the other.

    Not often have I witnessed an Oklahoma team out schemed and physically dominated. Until somewhat recently, every Oklahoma team that marched out on the field was determined to not be dominated and I knew the other team never stood a chance. At those days gone? I'm not sure.

    Where do we go from here?

    Like I said, this ain't rocket science. You have to find a way to motivate these kids. And here's where I start to say stuff that people don't like...What does a black kid from wherever have in common with a rich white guy who coaches at OU? Not much, these kids need a true mentor and that's why African American coaches typically recruit like a beast. How do you get a kid to come to Oklahoma? Can you sell them on tradition? Yes, but that seems to becoming less important. Can you sell them on championship contender? Yes, but OU hasn't been in contention since a lot of these kids were in middle or elementary school. Can you sell them on early playing time? Sure, and give props to Stoops for playing freshman.

    What motivates people?

    Motivation is internal. Everyone is different. Can you give the bullshit line "we will win with you or without you" ? Sure, but keep in mind that it was directed at AD who is a freak of nature athletically and loved to be challenged. He also had a father in the pokie and was motivated by that as well. Kids these days love attention and need to "feel the love" that doesn't make them soft. It's just kids.

    Adapt or die.

    What does OU need to do to stay relevant? Well they sure as shit aren't getting it done in the postseason. We should have left for greener pastures after last season. I have a feeling Sumlin and aTm are creating a monster that affects OU immensely.

    Uniforms

    I have always made my opinion clear on this. OU really needs to do something different. I know all about the tradition, but I also know kids love awesome uniforms and looking different. We all as fans would love to be able to put that jersey on, but think about it from their perspective...They really have no allegiance before they sign so anything helps, and if a different uniform combo lands a 5* kid then it's worth it. Yes, I know Alabama still has the old uniforms. I also know we aren't even in the same universe as them when it comes to football.


    This shit is getting stale. We need something new and innovative to breathe some new life into the program.
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  2. #2
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    Re: What needs to happen / observations

    Not often out schemed? Out coached? Not often? Lol

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  3. #3
    Welcome back man I agree with all of that

  4. #4
    You are correct about things getting stale. But the "something new and innovative" we need is not a new uniform, it's a new coaching staff. I have always resided on the "sunshine pumper" side of the fence, but it is time for one of two things to happen: 1. massive staff shakeup amongst the assistants, or 2. Bob needs to move on to a different job. One of the two has to happen. If it doesn't, we are just going to continue on in 3 loss per year mode for infinity.
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  5. #5
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    - 1 Josh Heupel. We need to be unpredictable on offense instead of lining up in the pistol every time and throwing to the flats. I am no professional at coaching but my friends and I were calling out nearly every play OU ran last night before it happened. ALSO: How do we have someone as big and fast as Trey Millard and not line up in the I and run over people?? The pistol hinders our run game. That "delay" to Millard in the 1'st quarter was pitiful. Line it up and run the damn ball. You have to get a defense tired if you want to be successful. 3 and outs throwing when you have D.D. Williams and Millard aint gonna cut it.

    BOOMER
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    Last edited by MadMex; January 5th, 2013 at 09:02 PM. Reason: I can't spell

  6. #6
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    Yo yo good to hear from you...I can agree with that. Coach Stoops has kept everything pretty much status quo past 14 years; now is the time to make some changes, whether it be coaching, approach, attitude, preparation, whatever it may be I don't know, because I'm neither a coach nor motivator of young men. I do know that the direction the program is going is the wrong one in the area of competing with the top programs, because anyone can see that the product we are putting on the field is not top quality. Tackling, effort, running, pursuit, blocking, assignments, etc. all phases of the game, really, need improvement.

  7. #7

    What needs to happen / observations

    Bob Simmons shoulda been the next Knute Rockne.


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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by Turk View Post
    Not often out schemed? Out coached? Not often? Lol

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    I meant historically

  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by madbrad View Post
    First off, hello everyone.


    I have been an OU fan since childhood. I have seen the ups as well as the painful downs. Thankfully, we have witnessed more of the former. Folks, this ain't rocket science. This is football. A game where you take physically gifted men and pin them against other physically gifted men and see who comes out victorious. What are you supposed to do when both are equal in terms on physical ability? You outsmart (scheme in our case) the other.

    Not often have I witnessed an Oklahoma team out schemed and physically dominated. Until somewhat recently, every Oklahoma team that marched out on the field was determined to not be dominated and I knew the other team never stood a chance. At those days gone? I'm not sure.

    Where do we go from here?

    Like I said, this ain't rocket science. You have to find a way to motivate these kids. And here's where I start to say stuff that people don't like...What does a black kid from wherever have in common with a rich white guy who coaches at OU? Not much, these kids need a true mentor and that's why African American coaches typically recruit like a beast. How do you get a kid to come to Oklahoma? Can you sell them on tradition? Yes, but that seems to becoming less important. Can you sell them on championship contender? Yes, but OU hasn't been in contention since a lot of these kids were in middle or elementary school. Can you sell them on early playing time? Sure, and give props to Stoops for playing freshman.

    What motivates people?

    Motivation is internal. Everyone is different. Can you give the bullshit line "we will win with you or without you" ? Sure, but keep in mind that it was directed at AD who is a freak of nature athletically and loved to be challenged. He also had a father in the pokie and was motivated by that as well. Kids these days love attention and need to "feel the love" that doesn't make them soft. It's just kids.

    Adapt or die.

    What does OU need to do to stay relevant? Well they sure as shit aren't getting it done in the postseason. We should have left for greener pastures after last season. I have a feeling Sumlin and aTm are creating a monster that affects OU immensely.

    Uniforms

    I have always made my opinion clear on this. OU really needs to do something different. I know all about the tradition, but I also know kids love awesome uniforms and looking different. We all as fans would love to be able to put that jersey on, but think about it from their perspective...They really have no allegiance before they sign so anything helps, and if a different uniform combo lands a 5* kid then it's worth it. Yes, I know Alabama still has the old uniforms. I also know we aren't even in the same universe as them when it comes to football.


    This shit is getting stale. We need something new and innovative to breathe some new life into the program.
    Alabama. That is my answer to that statement.

  10. #10
    Our position coaches need revamping. I'm pretty sure the coordinators (plus gundy) if canned today could get jobs immediately elsewhere at the same level. But i seriously doubt the other coaches have the same value and there lies the problem.

    for example: Sumlin, starts out as a asst coach/wr coach 14 years ago and gets upgrade/promoted every few years to either a better position or higher profile school. We've got guys like Kish, etc. that have been coaching over 30 years and 'position' coach at OU is their highest achievement.

  11. #11
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    Re: What needs to happen / observations

    Originally Posted by madbrad View Post
    I meant historically
    Ah.....that makes more sense. Agreed.

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  12. #12
    I was pretty much agreeing with you until the uniforms part. Whatever. Our problem is subpar coaching, subpar recruiting, subpar players, and a joke for a conference. That simpe.

  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by ChitoBito View Post
    I was pretty much agreeing with you until the uniforms part. Whatever. Our problem is subpar coaching, subpar recruiting, subpar players, and a joke for a conference. That simpe.
    I agree that it's a very minor thing, but I'm certainly not alone in my thinking. Call it swag. Call it whatever you want. It doesn't take away from the fact that its a new generational thing that kids love.
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  14. #14
    The current state of the program has very little to do with uniforms. It's really pretty obvious:

    *The front seven on our defense lacks talent, fundamentals, etc. We have really under recruited in this area for several years now and it's rearing it's ugly head.

    *Need better OL recruiting.

    *Heupel needs to go. His gameplanning and playcalling suck. We need to run the ball better and this won't improve with Heupel calling plays.

  15. #15
    OU needs a momentum boost. Program is stale. Yes the coaching changes need to happen but i promise you if they boosted out announcements for alt uniforms it would create a buzz
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  16. #16
    Schnellenberger made changes to the uniforms and the buzz it created lasted until Colorado beat our !@# on national tv...you attract the kids with the bling, but you have to coach them up too...I have lost all confidence that this staff can coach up the kids at this point...and now I'm beginning to doubt if they can even recruit them to begin with...
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  17. #17
    Originally Posted by ChitoBito View Post
    I was pretty much agreeing with you until the uniforms part. Whatever. Our problem is subpar coaching, subpar recruiting, subpar players, and a joke for a conference. That simpe.
    you must not talk to HS kids a lot. Uniform buzz is one of the biggest topics among FB players. Hell, atm which has just as much tradition as we do knows this and they've adjusted to attract kids. we need to look at EVERYTHING .... including some excitement in uniform if it will help. Unless your bama ... improvement anywhere should never be overlooked.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by madbrad View Post
    I agree that it's a very minor thing, but I'm certainly not alone in my thinking. Call it swag. Call it whatever you want. It doesn't take away from the fact that its a new generational thing that kids love.
    Uniforms can't make a block or a tackle.. The uniforms we wore last night had nothing whatsoever to do with how we prepared, Played or coached and absolutely nothing to do with who won and who lost.
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  19. #19
    Originally Posted by DirtySouth_Sooner View Post
    Our position coaches need revamping. I'm pretty sure the coordinators (plus gundy) if canned today could get jobs immediately elsewhere at the same level. But i seriously doubt the other coaches have the same value and there lies the problem.

    for example: Sumlin, starts out as a asst coach/wr coach 14 years ago and gets upgrade/promoted every few years to either a better position or higher profile school. We've got guys like Kish, etc. that have been coaching over 30 years and 'position' coach at OU is their highest achievement.
    I have been very vocal about what we need BUT, Let's say you are correct{You're not} If position coaches need to be changed/Revamped do you honestly think Stoops is going to do that ? Hell NO! So, Who needs to go ? Stoops..

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by boomermagic View Post
    I have been very vocal about what we need BUT, Let's say you are correct{You're not} If position coaches need to be changed/Revamped do you honestly think Stoops is going to do that ? Hell NO! So, Who needs to go ? Stoops..
    honestly boomer ... aside from your lovefest with saban, you make a good point here. but again, i post what i post based on my "inside info" on knowledge of what's really going on at the athletic department ... that knowledge is zero.

  21. #21
    Maybe we need to join the SEC, hire a new coach, and go all in. Or maybe we should stay in this mid major conference and keep playing mid major football. I just don't know.
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  22. #22
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    Originally Posted by boomermagic View Post
    Uniforms can't make a block or a tackle.. The uniforms we wore last night had nothing whatsoever to do with how we prepared, Played or coached and absolutely nothing to do with who won and who lost.
    You're right, but what if we landed a stud DT for no other reason than he thought we had cool uniforms?
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    Last edited by madbrad; January 6th, 2013 at 09:22 AM.

  23. #23
    Nazgul's Avatar
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    What needs to happen / observations

    Bob needs to stop hiring so many white coaches. Let's not be cute about it, black coaches would pull in more top talent.

    If I were a young black athlete and Kish and Sumlin both want me, guess where I'm going....
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  24. #24
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    What needs to happen / observations

    What is Randy Shannon doing? Why didn't we hire him?

  25. #25
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    Originally Posted by Muno View Post
    The current state of the program has very little to do with uniforms. It's really pretty obvious:

    *The front seven on our defense lacks talent, fundamentals, etc. We have really under recruited in this area for several years now and it's rearing it's ugly head.

    *Need better OL recruiting.

    *Heupel needs to go. His gameplanning and playcalling suck. We need to run the ball better and this won't improve with Heupel calling plays.
    this! plus the lack of leadership and playmaking on the field

  26. #26
    Originally Posted by DirtySouth_Sooner View Post
    honestly boomer ... aside from your lovefest with saban, you make a good point here. but again, i post what i post based on my "inside info" on knowledge of what's really going on at the athletic department ... that knowledge is zero.
    I didn't have saban's name in that post.. I have pointed the fact out that saban is the best coach in CFB now. WTF is wrong with that ? You wanta call that a lovefest go for it but thats bullshit. Do you have a LOVEFEST with Stoops ?

  27. #27
    Originally Posted by madbrad View Post
    You're right, but what if we landed a stud DT for no other reason than he though we had cool uniforms?
    Might, Also might land one that likes our traditional uni's.

  28. #28
    Originally Posted by boomermagic View Post
    I didn't have saban's name in that post.. I have pointed the fact out that saban is the best coach in CFB now. WTF is wrong with that ? You wanta call that a lovefest go for it but thats bullshit. Do you have a LOVEFEST with Stoops ?
    funny but i kinda do. i worked with sports info his first year there so he's got a lot of good will with me. Boomer, i agree that right now Saban is at the top. but you can't go firing everyone that isn't saban. it makes no sense.

    and with the uni's, that's the point madbrad makes ... you can always have both.

  29. #29
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    I agree with everything you just said except the uniform part, see Alabama.

  30. #30
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    Until OU is able to field a better football product Stoops should not receive any contract extensions or pay increases above what his current contract calls for. Neither should any of his assistants.
    They need to be sent a message from somebody other than fans.
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  31. #31
    Originally Posted by madbrad View Post
    I agree that it's a very minor thing, but I'm certainly not alone in my thinking. Call it swag. Call it whatever you want. It doesn't take away from the fact that its a new generational thing that kids love.
    Alabama better hurry up and get those new uniforms then.

  32. #32
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    On the uniforms issue, people need to calm the **** down. I seriously doubt there is anyone here who would advocate OU going in the direction of Oregon.

    Fdubzou recently brought up the point that unless you have three or four school colors, it is difficult to come up with a crazy new alternative jersey, and to that point I agree 100%. However, guess what two colored school just started making minor uniforms changes? Texas A&M. With the exception of the Miss St game, where they wore all black, all their uniforms were Maroon & White. The additions made were simple, and it's what we should do - white helmets, crimson pants. That's it.

    That would give us approximately six eight different uniform combinations:
    1. Crimson helmet, crimson jersey, white pants.
    2. Crimson helmet, white jersey, white pants.
    3. Crimson helmet, white jersey, crimson pants.
    4. White helmet, crimson jersey, white pants
    5. White helmet, white jersey, crimson pants.
    6. White helmet, crimson jersey, crimson pants.
    7. All Crimson.
    8. All White.

    Mind. Blown.
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    Last edited by oorah_okie; January 6th, 2013 at 12:04 PM. Reason: math is hard

  33. #33
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    And you idiots who keep saying "AllyBama" obviously can't comprehend the fact that since Bama is on the verge of their 3rd title in 4 years, there program isn't dead in the water, like ours is, and therefore, there is no need to inject new life into it.

  34. #34
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    Originally Posted by oorah_okie View Post
    And you idiots who keep saying "AllyBama" obviously can't comprehend the fact that since Bama is on the verge of their 3rd title in 4 years, there program isn't dead in the water, like ours is, and therefore, there is no need to inject new life into it.
    Ya, I'm not sure if their posts were tongue n cheek or not since I specifically mentioned Alabama in my post.

  35. #35

    Re: What needs to happen / observations

    Originally Posted by oorah_okie View Post
    On the uniforms issue, people need to calm the **** down. I seriously doubt there is anyone here who would advocate OU going in the direction of Oregon.

    Fdubzou recently brought up the point that unless you have three or four school colors, it is difficult to come up with a crazy new alternative jersey, and to that point I agree 100%. However, guess what two colored school just started making minor uniforms changes? Texas A&M. With the exception of the Miss St game, where they wore all black, all their uniforms were Maroon & White. The additions made were simple, and it's what we should do - white helmets, crimson pants. That's it.

    That would give us approximately six different uniform combinations:
    1. Crimson helmet, crimson jersey, white pants.
    2. Crimson helmet, white jersey, white pants.
    3. White helmet, crimson jersey, white pants
    4. White helmet, white jersey, crimson pants.
    5. All Crimson.
    6. All White.

    Mind. Blown.
    I agree. I hope we don't get too stir crazy, and use the trend and style of that subtle adjustment. Our all white uniforms have been referred to as "icey whites" and were the consensus favorite among recruits bar none this season. And we didn't crack them out until Alabama. We then used them against OU. No where near as flashy as Oregon, but what kind of impact does ONLY using the all-whites for big games do? It gives an identity to the uniforms. It creates buzz. "A&M is wearing their all-whites today." It reinforces buzz and excitement. When high school players discuss that, it creates branding. That's important, imo. The majority of Oregon's success is centered around being co-branded directly with Nike. And no one is going to duplicate that. Other teams, like Oklahoma State will trick it up just as much, but wont ever be co-branded. What you can do is try to forge a unique identity that people attach to. Some kids think to themselves they want to be decked out in all Nike crap. Hopefully some kids look at Johnny and see his biggest wins were in all whites amd think to themselves, "I want to be decked out in the Aggie icey whites one day."

    On a more direct Aggie note I hope we always wear all maroon against LSU since they wear white so much. I think that is also a great way to brand your uniforms. A&M in all maroon? LSU game. I would love kids to grow up thinkong that. Some iconic picture and if an Aggie is in all maroon you know EXACTLY who they were playing. That is powerful.

    My personal favorites were the white helmets, maroon jerseys, and white pants. Would also look cool for Oklahoma, imo.


    Texas A&M - 1997, 1998, 2010, 2012 Big 12 Champs*

  36. #36
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    Originally Posted by boomermagic View Post
    Uniforms can't make a block or a tackle.. The uniforms we wore last night had nothing whatsoever to do with how we prepared, Played or coached and absolutely nothing to do with who won and who lost.
    Why are you people not getting what the OP is saying? He never said that if the kids got new Uniforms it would make them faster and stronger and be able to tackle. He was stating that it would help attract higher talent. As per what most are saying we are not getting the top tier talent anymore like we used to. I too, think that just some sort of small change to some alt uniforms would HELP. Not fix everything as I too think there needs to be a coaching shake up. But if something so small as a uniform upgrade would HELP, then that needs to be done.
    Funny how a lot of you guys are screaming for a change and a "shake up" in the coaching staff to bring new life to this program but are completely against a little update to the uniforms to cause a buzz around HS FB players. It does make a difference. Look at UO. They got a million combos and they get all kind of attention for that and the kids love it. Heck, I aven like to see what new combination they are going to show up in and I am 35.
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  37. #37
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    Originally Posted by boomermagic View Post
    Might, Also might land one that likes our traditional uni's.
    Obviously we are not. But I say we keep the tradidional but also have ones we change it up for some games. More combinations = more interest for young talent. Trust me
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  38. #38
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    Everyone pay attention to Sabla.

  39. #39
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    Originally Posted by madbrad View Post
    Everyone pay attention to Sabla.
    Thank you. But I was trying to get these people to listen to you. Instead, they read part of your post and have their retort already planted in their stubborn heads. Change is not always bad.

  40. #40
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    Originally Posted by TeLeFaWx View Post
    I agree. I hope we don't get too stir crazy, and use the trend and style of that subtle adjustment. Our all white uniforms have been referred to as "icey whites" and were the consensus favorite among recruits bar none this season. And we didn't crack them out until Alabama. We then used them against OU.
    I have to admit, when I saw A&M run out on the the field, my first thought was "Oh shit, that's what they wore against Alabama."

  41. #41
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    What needs to happen / observations

    Bump, b/c this actually one of the better threads.

  42. #42
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    What the staff, and to some degree the University, needs to do is to figure out how to become "sexy" again. OU is looking more and more like that hot chick you went to High school with and now she's 35, popped out a couple of kids, but still looks pretty good. She just wouldn't sway a younger guy into the bedroom.

    I know we make fun of the pokes, but they realize this more than anyone. Stillwater is a shithole so they have to figure out ways to make it attractive to recruits. Their offense helps, but marketing and image play a huge role as well. Just because we are OU doesn't mean the coaches can take some lackadaisical approach to recruiting...that shit doesn't work anymore.

  43. #43
    Pay players and pay off key NCAA personnel. That's how you get the job done these days!

  44. #44
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    Yeah, Not sure why adding a few extra "sexy" uniforms would hurt. Not saying just throw out tradition. Just add to. Read these guys twitter acounts, they all like flashy swag. I had to break down and buy my sone some flashy red shoes for christmas this year. It killed me bacause I was thinking he should like the same style but in a normal color. Not what kids want nowadays. Flashy is in. Look at Under armour game. All those kids were decked out in their "warrior" wear. They are going into battle, they want to look good doing it. To put it into perspective to some of the guys on here. If you went and baught a Gun, say a AR15. Which is cool all buy itself but it had no flashy accesories on it like a cool laser scope or flash light or red dot scope. Wouldnt you want to get that stuff put on it? Or better yet, n ot buy the already cool gun that has no flash, but a cool gun that has the flash on it?? IMHO it would help Recruiting. Let's be honest, it couldnt hurt it with the state its in now.

    Plus a little shake up in the staff also.

  45. #45
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    Uniform changes are pretty much superficial stuff and would not fix the bigger problems we have.

  46. #46
    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    Uniform changes are pretty much superficial stuff and would not fix the bigger problems we have.
    Could they possibly help though? Not an every week thing like Oregon, but breaking out an alt uni a couple of times a year might. Wasn't it Kelvin that talked about losing recruits to 'Nike schools?'

  47. #47
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    Originally Posted by OU48A View Post
    Uniform changes are pretty much superficial stuff and would not fix the bigger problems we have.
    Maybe.

    But having someone like Jadeveon Clowney on your D line sure makes up for any shit head coaches you have.
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  48. #48
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    Could they possibly help though? Not an every week thing like Oregon, but breaking out an alt uni a couple of times a year might. Wasn't it Kelvin that talked about losing recruits to 'Nike schools?'
    We have far bigger problems to worry about first IMHO.
    But maybe we should wear cream colored pants at homeā€¦..
    It looks good on some of our other sports teams.

  49. #49
    Morningwood's Avatar
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    So, to summarize: yada yada yada, a few Cpt. Obvious observations... and we can get on the right track by jazzing up our uniforms.

    Great post. I highly recommend. Four stars

  50. #50
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    Originally Posted by Morningwood View Post
    So, to summarize: yada yada yada, a few Cpt. Obvious observations... and we can get on the right track by jazzing up our uniforms.

    Great post. I highly recommend. Four stars
    Great contribution. Thanks for your input.

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