Now we know what the problem is.....

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  1. #1

    Now we know what the problem is.....

    You have two players already declared( stills and Jefferson ) both will be lucky to be mid second rounders, and now you have two other players who might not even be drafted thinking of coming out.
    These are the leaders of this team , no wonder we can get up for Texas and no one else.
    The heart beat on this team is almost flatlined.
    We don't just need talent we need heart.

  2. #2
    oorah_okie's Avatar
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    Now we know what the problem is.....

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  3. #3
    I can agree that they were leaders of this team but I won't say they didn't have heart. The Cali trio played well throughout their career and if Clay leaves too so be it. They played through injuries and kept fighting to get back on the field. TJ was a warrior playing on a bum ankle all season.

    I think this team took on the personality of its coaches, it just trickled down and what you see is what they learned to play with. That's just my opinion on the trickling effect but I believe the kids mentioned had heart and played admirably.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    I can agree that they were leaders of this team but I won't say they didn't have heart. The Cali trio played well throughout their career and if Clay leaves too so be it. They played through injuries and kept fighting to get back on the field. TJ was a warrior playing on a bum ankle all season.

    I think this team took on the personality of its coaches, it just trickled down and what you see is what they learned to play with. That's just my opinion on the trickling effect but I believe the kids mentioned had heart and played admirably.
    Sorry but this group of players had MULTIPLE games in their careers where not only did they lose but they got BLOWN OFF THE FIELD against teams that in some cases weren't even close to as talented.

    Teams with heart come to play game in game out never give up.

    They got up for big games , Texas, fsu, other then that they went through the motions and spent more time on twitter then in the film room.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    Sorry but this group of players had MULTIPLE games in their careers where not only did they lose but they got BLOWN OFF THE FIELD against teams that in some cases weren't even close to as talented.

    Teams with heart come to play game in game out never give up.

    They got up for big games , Texas, fsu, other then that they went through the motions and spent more time on twitter then in the film room.
    like I said above, I put more of that blame on the coaches for failure to get the kids ready to play...if getting our asses kicked in a bowl game or a big game on the national stage was an isolated incident I would agree that the players didn't have heart but this has been a trend with Stoops and the coaching staff

  6. #6
    KCRuf/Nek's Avatar
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    Why are we starting new threads so people can talk about the same thing? Why is it tolerated on OF but not anywhere else?
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    like I said above, I put more of that blame on the coaches for failure to get the kids ready to play...if getting our asses kicked in a bowl game or a big game on the national stage was an isolated incident I would agree that the players didn't have heart but this has been a trend with Stoops and the coaching staff
    If a coach has to motivate a player who going to playing on national tv, at a top 5 program, in a sport that you worked at all your life............ Then the coach isn't the problem.

  8. #8
    PowerPower's Avatar
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    Now we know what the problem is.....

    The only time this group of juniors has been blown was last Friday and Bedlam last year. I also don't understand this "no heart" funny business.

  9. #9
    Maybe these players simply don't see any upside to staying another year. Why stay another year and play for free if skills/evaluation isn't going to improve anyway. If you are going to gamble might as well gamble before you get injured.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    Why are we starting new threads so people can talk about the same thing? Why is it tolerated on OF but not anywhere else?
    Why add the the thread then dumbass

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by coolmojo View Post
    Maybe these players simply don't see any upside to staying another year. Why stay another year and play for free if skills/evaluation isn't going to improve anyway. If you are going to gamble might as well gamble before you get injured.
    That's because the are individuals and not a team.and numbers prove the longer you stay the higher you are drafted, these kids haven't toped out. They will be better players next year.
    If they are worried about injuries then they should quit football and finish their degree.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    If a coach has to motivate a player who going to playing on national tv, at a top 5 program, in a sport that you worked at all your life............ Then the coach isn't the problem.
    so then explain how the coaches aren't the problem when:

    2003 KSU
    2004 USC
    2006 Boise St.
    2007 Texas Tech (yes we came back but still embarrassing), WVU
    2009 Texas Tech
    2011 Texas Tech, OSU
    2012 ND, TA&M

    we've had our asses handed to us on the national stage on average once a year for the past 9 years...why does this trend and pattern continue to hold if it's not coaching? I'll agree the players have quit and given up in a lot of those games but that speaks volumes about the coaches to me
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  13. #13
    KCRuf/Nek's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    Why add the the thread then dumbass
    You know there's a button you can click that allows you to check your post to see if it makes any sense - at least to the rest of us. Dumbass.
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  14. #14
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    so then explain how the coaches aren't the problem when:

    2003 KSU
    2004 USC
    2006 Boise St.
    2007 Texas Tech (yes we came back but still embarrassing), WVU
    2009 Texas Tech
    2011 Texas Tech, OSU
    2012 ND, TA&M

    we've had our asses handed to us on the national stage on average once a year for the past 9 years...why does this trend and pattern continue to hold if it's not coaching? I'll agree the players have quit and given up in a lot of those games but that speaks volumes about the coaches to me
    Most of these same coaches won a national championship with a group in 2000 that didn't quit.

    What's the difference ....... The players.

    I will say you can blame them for recruiting kids that arent the best team guys....... But how can a coach on the sidelines make a player on the field want to compete, play hard , or put the tem first??

    You either have that or you don't.

    How can you make a player want to play or love ou ??

    That comes with recruiting , not coaching after you get them. You cant change players makeup, they are either selfish or they aren't. When hit with adversity they either lay down or play harder.

    I blame them recruiting wise, not coaching wise.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    Most of these same coaches won a national championship with a group in 2000 that didn't quit.

    What's the difference ....... The players.

    I will say you can blame them for recruiting kids that arent the best team guys....... But how can a coach on the sidelines make a player on the field want to compete, play hard , or put the tem first??

    You either have that or you don't.

    How can you make a player want to play or love ou ??

    That comes with recruiting , not coaching after you get them. You cant change players makeup, they are either selfish or they aren't. When hit with adversity they either lay down or play harder.

    I blame them recruiting wise, not coaching wise.
    and for the lack of adjustments in these games where our players are no longer in the best position and are exposed?

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    You know there's a button you can click that allows you to check your post to see if it makes any sense - at least to the rest of us. Dumbass.
    Are you still adding to this thread? Do you need a friend or something?

  17. #17
    KCRuf/Nek's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    Are you still adding to this thread? Do you need a friend or something?
    Are you ever going to?

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    That's because the are individuals and not a team.and numbers prove the longer you stay the higher you are drafted, these kids haven't toped out. They will be better players next year.
    If they are worried about injuries then they should quit football and finish their degree.
    From reading your posts you don't like them and yet you think they should come back? They play as individuals and not team players. And you know this how?
    Fact is you don't know. You have no clue as to what is going on behind the scenes. No more than me or 99% of the others on this board. So quit bashing players. The OU fan base is above this kind of shit. Wish them well and move on.
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  19. #19
    KCRuf/Nek's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Boomer6671 View Post
    From reading your posts you don't like them and yet you think they should come back? They play as individuals and not team players. And you know this how?
    Fact is you don't know. You have no clue as to what is going on behind the scenes. No more than me or 99% of the others on this board. So quit bashing players. The OU fan base is above this kind of shit. Wish them well and move on.
    Shhhh. He's busy adding to the thread.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    and for the lack of adjustments in these games where our players are no longer in the best position and are exposed?
    Name one game this year we came out fired up from the first snap other then Texas?

    Football is still a game of inches and schemes are so overrated compared to playing hard, physical ,and just straight up competing

    How so you scheme for guys that just go through the motions and don't make plays?

    I saw players all year long in the right spot but just didn't make a football play

  21. #21
    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    Name one game this year we came out fired up from the first snap other then Texas?

    Football is still a game of inches and schemes are so overrated compared to playing hard, physical ,and just straight up competing

    How so you scheme for guys that just go through the motions and don't make plays?
    look man, it's your opinion that our players just go through the motions and don't make plays and I still say that if the players didn't come out fired up then again that's on the coaching staff to motivate and get them ready to play

  22. #22
    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    If a coach has to motivate a player who going to playing on national tv, at a top 5 program, in a sport that you worked at all your life............ Then the coach isn't the problem.
    Tell coach Saban this. He spends a lot of time, money, and energy learning about the psychology of players.
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  23. #23
    [QUOTE=greensooner;1031698]look man, it's your opinion that our players just go through the motions and don't make plays and I still say that if the players didn't come out fired up then again that's on the coaching staff to motivate and get them ready to play[/

    The only difference in 2000 and today are the players.

    In 2000 we had players having all American seasons with broken arms vs now we blame a rain delay for getting our ass kicked in on our home field against one of the worst teams in the conference....... That's not coaching.

  24. #24
    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    Why are we starting new threads so people can talk about the same thing? Why is it tolerated on OF but not anywhere else?

  25. #25
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  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    look man, it's your opinion that our players just go through the motions and don't make plays and I still say that if the players didn't come out fired up then again that's on the coaching staff to motivate and get them ready to play
    The only difference in 2000 and today are the players.

    In 2000 we had players having all American seasons with broken arms vs now we blame a rain delay for getting our ass kicked in on our home field against one of the worst teams in the conference....... That's not coaching.
    In 2000, the coaches were hungry and out to prove themselves. In 2012, they're just collecting a pay check.

  27. #27
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    look man, it's your opinion that our players just go through the motions and don't make plays and I still say that if the players didn't come out fired up then again that's on the coaching staff to motivate and get them ready to play
    he'll never get it ... i'm not talking about the thread topic ... i'm talking about he'll never get a management position. and idiot who thinks great coaches can't mold 17 and 18 year olds into men ... well are idiots.

  28. #28
    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    That's because the are individuals and not a team.and numbers prove the longer you stay the higher you are drafted, these kids haven't toped out. They will be better players next year.
    If they are worried about injuries then they should quit football and finish their degree.
    Didn't say the players were worried about injuries, but if they are not taking the shelf life of a football player into consideration, they should be. Also did not state that any of these particular players are making the right or wrong decision, but there are mutiple factors to consider. Is the defense as whole going to be better next year? If you are a linebacker, are the lineman in front of you better next year? Are your skills going to improve? Is the coaching you are receiving improving your shot at being drafted? Are your stats going to be any better next year?

    It is a personal decision, if the player believes his potential draft status is not going to be bettered by staying another year, then why should he stay?

  29. #29
    SoonerSteve1's Avatar
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    They were the wrong kind of leaders!! I have heard to many stories from reliable people that what they were doing off the field was not good for the team...
    They contribute for sure... they were not leaders and holding others accountable.

  30. #30
    madbrad's Avatar
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    I like a player with heart.


    I REALLY like a player with a 5* heart that is 6'4 285 and runs a 4.4

  31. #31
    Originally Posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
    Are you ever going to?
    He or she did add to the the thread.

  32. #32
    I really and truly don't understand this amateur psychology bullshit that fans keep trying to come up with. We've been losing because our players on defense and our schemes on offense aren't good enough. It's on the field stuff, and has nothing to do with our "attitude". All of the players and coaches were fired up for and wanted to win the games that we lost. Even if you are a selfish person, you still want the recognition and acclaim that comes with success on the field.


    If our defense fills up with Gerald McCoys, Jeremy Beals, Quinton Carters, Frank Alexanders, Dom Franks, and Keenan Claytons again, our defense is likely to miraculously start looking a lot better than when we're running Tom Wort, Gabe Lynn, R.J. Washington, and Jamarkus McFarland out there.


    But pretending it's because we don't have enough kids from Oklahoma, or we have a poor attitude is an absolute joke.
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  33. #33
    Originally Posted by sperry View Post
    I really and truly don't understand this amateur psychology bullshit that fans keep trying to come up with. We've been losing because our players on defense and our schemes on offense aren't good enough. It's on the field stuff, and has nothing to do with our "attitude". All of the players and coaches were fired up for and wanted to win the games that we lost. Even if you are a selfish person, you still want the recognition and acclaim that comes with success on the field.


    If our defense fills up with Gerald McCoys, Jeremy Beals, Quinton Carters, Frank Alexanders, Dom Franks, and Keenan Claytons again, our defense is likely to miraculously start looking a lot better than when we're running Tom Wort, Gabe Lynn, R.J. Washington, and Jamarkus McFarland out there.


    But pretending it's because we don't have enough kids from Oklahoma, or we have a poor attitude is an absolute joke.
    Really, did you win championships for stoops in the early 2000s????? Because the players that did, are saying the same things I am.

    They say the locker room is competely different then when they were there. These past players are calling out the current ones, dont take my word for it. Take the word of past PLAYERS not mesage board losers like me or you.
    They say the attitude is competely changed, no leadership, no toughness.

  34. #34
    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    Really, did you win championships for stoops in the early 2000s????? Because the players that did, are saying the same things I am.

    They say the locker room is competely different then when they were there. These past players are calling out the current ones, dont take my word for it. Take the word of past PLAYERS not mesage board losers like me or you.
    They say the attitude is competely changed, no leadership, no toughness.
    What talent did we have on that 2000 defense, the team that shut out the ncaa leader in scoring that season (fsu).
    How many of those guys made early rounds of the nfl????
    Talent is an issue but not the biggest, the biggest is attitude, toughness, desire, and leadership.

    Mike stoops still coaches the same, I would dare to say across the board we have close to the same nfl talent on this defense as the 2000 defense. The one different thing heart.

    In 2000 we had a bunch of average at best players giving 110% every snap, compared to now where blowouts are the norm.

    Our dline is nothing special but who was the first round pick on that 2000 line????

  35. #35
    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    What talent did we have on that 2000 defense, the team that shut out the ncaa leader in scoring that season (fsu).
    How many of those guys made early rounds of the nfl????
    Talent is an issue but not the biggest, the biggest is attitude, toughness, desire, and leadership.

    Mike stoops still coaches the same, I would dare to say across the board we have close to the same nfl talent on this defense as the 2000 defense. The one different thing heart.

    In 2000 we had a bunch of average at best players giving 110% every snap, compared to now where blowouts are the norm.

    Our dline is nothing special but who was the first round pick on that 2000 line????


    Are you kidding me? We had a Butkus award winner (Calmus), two Thorpe award winners (Strait and Williams), an All-American Free Safety (J.T. Thatcher), another All-American linebacker (Torrance Marshall), and another kid who was destined for greatness whose career was derailed by a car wreck later on (Michael Thompson).


    Turns out that all world talent at linebacker and defensive back was good enough to make up for the admittedly unspectacular defensive line. (Although that line was still significantly better than what we had this year).

  36. #36
    Originally Posted by sperry View Post
    Are you kidding me? We had a Butkus award winner (Calmus), two Thorpe award winners (Strait and Williams), an All-American Free Safety (J.T. Thatcher), another All-American linebacker (Torrance Marshall), and another kid who was destined for greatness whose career was derailed by a car wreck later on (Michael Thompson).


    Turns out that all world talent at linebacker and defensive back was good enough to make up for the admittedly unspectacular defensive line. (Although that line was still significantly better than what we had this year).
    Calmus and marshall Ill give you, Roy was a stud( but jefferson is pretty damn good) Colvin right now is better then a freshman Strait, and will go higher in the draft then strait did (strait at that time wasnt even a starting CB) Hurst as a sr is better then a young thompson.(but thompson would have been a stud if healthy)

    Thatcher got all american as a return man, he was already losing snaps to everage.

  37. #37
    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    Calmus and marshall Ill give you, Roy was a stud( but jefferson is pretty damn good) Colvin right now is better then a freshman Strait, and will go higher in the draft then strait did (strait at that time wasnt even a starting CB) Hurst as a sr is better then a young thompson.(but thompson would have been a stud if healthy)

    Thatcher got all american as a return man, he was already losing snaps to everage.
    This dline (talent wise) isnt even close. Our current dline (athletic wise) is head and shoulders better then the 2000 line, problem is this line is soft as butter and never made plays.

  38. #38
    Keller Sooner's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    You have two players already declared( stills and Jefferson ) both will be lucky to be mid second rounders, and now you have two other players who might not even be drafted thinking of coming out.
    These are the leaders of this team , no wonder we can get up for Texas and no one else.
    The heart beat on this team is almost flatlined.
    We don't just need talent we need heart.

    As I look back on the season, A&M and Notre Dame were just better than us. We sort of handed the game to K-State with some pitiful mistakes. We beat 10 teams with these heartless, unmotivated. no talent players, so those 10 must be a hell of a lot less heartless, non talented, and unmotivated than we are. While I admit, the last few years we have stunk it up in some games, we've also won some in impressive fashion. I don't think heart is our problem. To get back to winning championships we need to recruit better, period.
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  39. #39
    Originally Posted by Sooner 1234 View Post
    ... But how can a coach on the sidelines make a player on the field want to compete, play hard , or put the tem first??
    By benching their ass when they dont compete, play hard or put the team first. This requires depth and will, but if the player is not assured of a starting position unless it is earned by adhering to a standard, then they will strive towards that standard. A perfect example of this is Alabama. Those guys not only play, but execute with aggression because if they don't they know the next guy will.

  40. #40
    Originally Posted by LegalKnievel View Post
    By benching their ass when they dont compete, play hard or put the team first. This requires depth and will, but if the player is not assured of a starting position unless it is earned by adhering to a standard, then they will strive towards that standard. A perfect example of this is Alabama. Those guys not only play, but execute with aggression because if they don't they know the next guy will.
    i dont think 1234 understands the job of a coach ... its not all x's and o's.

  41. #41
    Here's part of the problem, and it's exactly what I've been talking about. Our coaching staff really doesn't waste time preparing for bowl games. They really don't, unless a national title is on the line. That's their loser philosophy.

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextr...1_OKLAHO461054

  42. #42
    Originally Posted by Keller Sooner View Post
    As I look back on the season, A&M and Notre Dame were just better than us. We sort of handed the game to K-State with some pitiful mistakes. We beat 10 teams with these heartless, unmotivated. no talent players, so those 10 must be a hell of a lot less heartless, non talented, and unmotivated than we are. While I admit, the last few years we have stunk it up in some games, we've also won some in impressive fashion. I don't think heart is our problem. To get back to winning championships we need to recruit better, period.
    Name one team we played the last two seasons that just alot more talent then us??? Did Tech, Baylor, osu, Kstate have better talent??? Overall??? No

    Notre dame and A&M were about the same talent wise but they were much better teams.

    We arent as talented as we have been (no doubt) but getting ass reamed on your home field to tech??? How many nfl players did that team produce??? You think is because of talent?

    Name me all these players that just come to play EVERY SNAP, ........Millard , Shepard, maybe a few others. WE have supposed leaders that werent even going to team meetings and now because they are sharing snaps......they are leaving.....Your telling me thats a competere????

    Wheres the fight?? This same player talked about how its was a privilege to play for ou......Obviously talk is cheap.

    Jones was RARELY sacked but when he was he pouted like a girl, hell nate hybl look a sack like that every series.

    Im telling you this team is soft as butter and the ONLY team we manhandled this year was texas......who is even softer then us.

    Ex players who have played at ou are saying the same things. We have a team full of soft, unmotivated players, who care more about their next twitter feed then they do winning games.

  43. #43
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