Some people shouldn't own guns

Posted 457 day(s) ago by Stinger_10663316 Views 141 Replies
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  1. #101

    Some people shouldn't own guns

    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Liability.
    Stop blaming the guns.

  2. #102
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    Stop blaming the guns.
    I'm not.

    I refuse to believe that selling a gun to a person that would have been denied a firearm in a retail setting should result in no liability or complicity in the seller, though.

  3. #103
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    Originally Posted by OUfanINtulsa View Post
    No this is NOT common sense. Common sense would tell you that people need to be head accountable for their own actions. Lets say for example, you inherit a gun from a relative. You then decide to sell the gun to a buddy you have known for most of your life. You do your background check (because your a good American). Be 6 months later your buddy walks in on his wife with another man. He grabs the gun and shots both of them.

    If your law gets passed
    The cops are arresting you because they want to see if you took the proper steps to prevent said murders from happening. We all know that you had nothing to do with said murders. But you are being arrested and taken to the police station anyway.

    Same situation in present day.
    Your buddy calls you from jail and says, "dude I messed up bad, can you take care of my dog for me?"
    The other aspect not considered is say you do sell the gun for cash but you sold it 5 years before the law is passed. The person you sold it to has since sold it again for cash. The person he sold the gun to uses it to kill somebody a couple of years later and after the new law is passed. The cops run the serial number and you're the last purchaser of the gun. You say you sold the gun but can't remember who you sold it to and have no records of the sale and the guy who bought the gun who used it to kill doesn't know who he bought it from. Are you going to held liable since you have no records of the sale, you've filed no police report for the gun being stolen, etc?

  4. #104
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    In the above scenario, I don't believe there would be liability found. These examples start to dwindle as we get down the timeline.

    My opinion. Guns should be titled, like vehicles.
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  5. #105
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    In the above scenario, I don't believe there would be liability found. These examples start to dwindle as we get down the timeline.

    My opinion. Guns should be titled, like vehicles.
    Man I hope not . . . a trip to the DMV is painful enough for some folks. We don't need more bureaucracy.

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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Man I hope not . . . a trip to the DMV is painful enough for some folks. We don't need more bureaucracy.
    Yet that is not a significant enough notion to have title eradicated.

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    Some people shouldn't own guns

    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    In the above scenario, I don't believe there would be liability found. These examples start to dwindle as we get down the timeline.

    My opinion. Guns should be titled, like vehicles.
    Owning a vehicle is not a constitutional right.
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    Originally Posted by kssooner View Post
    Owning a vehicle is not a constitutional right.
    Nor is owning a firearm, rather possessing one is guaranteed.

  9. #109

    Re: Some people shouldn't own guns

    Also something about regulation

  10. #110
    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Nor is owning a firearm, rather possessing one is guaranteed.
    seriously?
    "keep" means "possess" ......not "own"?

  11. #111
    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    Also something about regulation
    also something about shall not be infringed...

  12. #112
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Yet that is not a significant enough notion to have title eradicated.
    Neither is equating gun ownership to car ownership a significant notion for requiring it.

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    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    Also something about regulation
    What is the first definition of regulate in the dictionary? What makes you think that the first definition isn't the intended meaning of the world instead of the second?

    Edit: I suppose I should clarify since multiple sources provide multiple responses to which definition is "First"

    The word I'm targeting is descriped as "working properly" or "sharpened" or "tuned"

    Is there any way that the meaning could be a "well tuned" militia.. instead of a "goverened"?

  14. #114
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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Neither is equating gun ownership to car ownership a significant notion for requiring it.
    It could be, if you look at he reasons why land and vehicles are titled. It legally defines ownership for two basic reasons, to settle discrepancies when ownership is in question, and sets liability.

    Why would these tenets be misplaced re:guns?

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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    It could be, if you look at he reasons why land and vehicles are titled. It legally defines ownership for two basic reasons, to settle discrepancies when ownership is in question, and sets liability.

    Why would these tenets be misplaced re:guns?
    Should we title everything we own that might cause harm to someone or a dispute over ownership might happen?

    Should I title my grill?

  16. #116
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    I had to title my knuckles
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    Originally Posted by Tundra View Post
    I had to titled my knuckles

  18. #118
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    Originally Posted by Dexa View Post
    Should we title everything we own that might cause harm to someone or a dispute over ownership might happen?

    Should I title my grill?
    If it comes closer to eliminating taxpayer burden we should look into it. It solidly rests liability with the individual which, I believe, both sides would like to see.

    If establishing title for grills ended up costing society less in terms of lives and treasure, it should be considered.

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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    If it comes closer to eliminating taxpayer burden we should look into it. It solidly rests liability with the individual which, I believe, both sides would like to see.

    If establishing title for grills ended up costing society less in terms of lives and treasure, it should be considered.
    Do you believe titling guns would reduce gun deaths and injuries?

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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    It could be, if you look at he reasons why land and vehicles are titled. It legally defines ownership for two basic reasons, to settle discrepancies when ownership is in question, and sets liability.

    Why would these tenets be misplaced re:guns?
    Is the use of a gun treated the same as driving a vehicle?

  21. #121
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    Originally Posted by Dexa View Post
    Do you believe titling guns would reduce gun deaths and injuries?
    Maybe well down the road. Practically, it would set ownership in a fashion that might coerce individuals to make more prudent decisions when considering the accessibility of weapons to non owners. Which could (probably would) lead to a reduction in those two areas, but it could very well take a while.

  22. #122
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    If it comes closer to eliminating taxpayer burden we should look into it. It solidly rests liability with the individual which, I believe, both sides would like to see.

    If establishing title for grills ended up costing society less in terms of lives and treasure, it should be considered.

    Creating a new level of bureaucracy is your way of eliminating a burden to taxpayers?

  23. #123
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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Is the use of a gun treated the same as driving a vehicle?
    In what sense...criminal or civic use?

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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Maybe well down the road. Practically, it would set ownership in a fashion that might coerce individuals to make more prudent decisions when considering the accessibility of weapons to non owners. Which could (probably would) lead to a reduction in those two areas, but it could very well take a while.
    Just like requiring liability insurance and a license to drive a car has coerced folks into always maintaining the legitimacy of the two requirements.

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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Creating a new level of bureaucracy is your way of eliminating a burden to taxpayers?
    It could be. I would presume that declaration of ownership has saved society a ton of money comparatively when speaking of property and vehicular titling. Just the legal action presented with the dissolution of such contracts would result in a mind boggling figure.

  26. #126
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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Just like requiring liability insurance and a license to drive a car has coerced folks into always maintaining the legitimacy of the two requirements.
    It has certainly made the person on the title more involved in the upkeep of those requirements as they are personally liable.
    As a car owner (I presume) do you not feel more compelled to ascertain legal change of ownership to another individual upon sale knowing that you could be financially responsible for any incident occurring with said vehicle?

  27. #127
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    In what sense...criminal or civic use?
    In any sense.

    You can legally be 16 to drive a vehicle by yourself during a specific set of hours . . . you can't legally possess or use a weapon without supervision at 16.

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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    In any sense.

    You can legally be 16 to drive a vehicle by yourself during a specific set of hours . . . you can't legally possess or use a weapon without supervision at 16.
    While the dates differ, there are age limits on both (for legal use) and both have illegal uses as well.

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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    It has certainly made the person on the title more involved in the upkeep of those requirements as they are personally liable.
    As a car owner (I presume) do you not feel more compelled to ascertain legal change of ownership to another individual upon sale knowing that you could be financially responsible for any incident occurring with said vehicle?
    Good points . . . but that is what is wrong with society. Let's blame the owner rather than the person (if not the owner) at the wheel . . . . who doesn't hang their keys on a hook by the back door on a regular basis? Should everyone who does this be at fault if someone grabs them and then proceeds to wreak havoc on the roadways? Not in my opinion. The person at the wheel should bare sole responsibility.

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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    While the dates differ, there are age limits on both (for legal use) and both have illegal uses as well.
    Which is responsible for more unintentional injury/death for those under 18-19?

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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Good points . . . but that is what is wrong with society. Let's blame the owner rather than the person (if not the owner) at the wheel . . . . who doesn't hang their keys on a hook by the back door on a regular basis? Should everyone who does this be at fault if someone grabs them and then proceeds to wreak havoc on the roadways? Not in my opinion. The person at the wheel should bare sole responsibility.
    I agree with you here, and the court would probably agree as well. In some cases, though, there is a reasonable expectation that you should secure your vehicle (you may incur more responsibility if you leave your unlocked car running in the mall parking lot, for example)

    I just wish people would properly secure their firearms, then liability would never be in question.

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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Which is responsible for more unintentional injury/death for those under 18-19?
    It depends on how we look at it, I guess. In total number, automobiles for sure. However, if we are talking about the rate of such an accident when an unauthorized person utilizes either one I would bet guns close the gap quickly.

  33. #133
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    I just wish people would properly secure their firearms, then liability would never be in question.
    So do I . . . but requiring registration of firearms won't fix this. While "stupid" might qualify for the purchase of a gun or car they're still "stupid".

  34. #134
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Liability.
    You are not making much of a case here. Which to me means that you admit that there is no way to enforce this. I have several firearms that were either given to me or that I bought from friends. How am I to held liable if there is no existence of a paper trail that would lead to my name? Is the original owner who sold the weapon 10 years ago going to be held liable?

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    Originally Posted by Fahooglegods View Post
    You are not making much of a case here. Which to me means that you admit that there is no way to enforce this. I have several firearms that were either given to me or that I bought from friends. How am I to held liable if there is no existence of a paper trail that would lead to my name? Is the original owner who sold the weapon 10 years ago going to be held liable?
    After investigation probably not (pretty much the same scenario as now)

    However, if your gun was originally purchased after enactment, it would depend upon the wording of the statute....probably finding you liable if you did not report a change of possession.

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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    After investigation probably not (pretty much the same scenario as now)

    However, if your gun was originally purchased after enactment, it would depend upon the wording of the statute....probably finding you liable if you did not report a change of possession.
    The government would have no idea that I even owned any such weapon because it would have never been titled in my name.(sorry misread your post). What about the millions of weapons already in civilian hands? Does everyone go down to the local government office and have every weapon they own titled in their name if this were to be enacted? How many do you think would go and do this? How do you enforce this? As I asked before do you have random serial number checks at local gun ranges? Do police go door to door and search your house for firearms and check those in your possession against the national database?

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    What if someone who sells their weapon to another individual removes the serial number "just in case". Can't track those anymore. There are far too many holes in such legislation for it ever to be effective and be anything more than a huge waste of money and time.

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    Most weapons are registered, but as you stated, here are millions that are not. Time will take its toll on these weapons though due not only their age, but because of technical advancements. How many 70+ year old guns do you own? Probably not very many. The percentage of these guns would eventually decline, although they would never go away.

    If you knew that your guns, if stolen, could never be returned to you without a holding of proper title, would you take them in for the paperwork?

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    Originally Posted by Fahooglegods View Post
    What if someone who sells their weapon to another individual removes the serial number "just in case". Can't track those anymore. There are far too many holes in such legislation for it ever to be effective and be anything more than a huge waste of money and time.
    I believe possession of a firearm with an altered serial number is already a crime.

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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    I believe possession of a firearm with an altered serial number is already a crime.
    It may be but if someone is already committing a crime by selling to another without a background check do you think they care? Has anyone ever checked any of your serial numbers?

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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Most weapons are registered, but as you stated, here are millions that are not. Time will take its toll on these weapons though due not only their age, but because of technical advancements. How many 70+ year old guns do you own? Probably not very many. The percentage of these guns would eventually decline, although they would never go away.

    If you knew that your guns, if stolen, could never be returned to you without a holding of proper title, would you take them in for the paperwork?
    I would not

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    Originally Posted by Fahooglegods View Post
    It may be but if someone is already committing a crime by selling to another without a background check do you think they care? Has anyone ever checked any of your serial numbers?
    Just once...repair work.
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