OKC: City on the Rise

[OU48A]

Always the eternal optimist

Yes I am…at least on this….. because plans are being developed for something significant.

In addition to the plans below there are firm plans to build a new OU / Norman bus station on the NW side of OU’s duck pond that would connect to an expanded Norman bus system. They will build a park and ride station with expanded bus service on the north side of Norman near Tecumseh if commuter rail is built. Right now there is a great deal of support for this in Norman.

As shown below OKC is moving forward with plans on a new downtown intermodal station. This will be a place that will interconnect with the new trolley system, potential commuter rail, and other trains along with a greatly expanded bus system. From here you would be able to catch a high frequency express bus to the airport.

I don’t know much about the details of what other suburbs are doing but they are also participating in the planning stages of this. There was a big meeting just this past week about it and the plans are moving forward.

As the first stages come on line it is anticipated that people will see the possibilities and that there would be more support for a more extensive system with more capacity.


The impact stated below may be overstated some but if done right it can help our area’s quality of life.
http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x9648...rail-for-metro
James Coburn The Edmond Sun

EDMOND — EDITOR’S NOTE: This is the first in a series of stories on regional transit issues.

Metro drivers at rush hour experience traffic congestion when time is money, and rail transit gives other cities a competitive edge.
Such was the message of the Regional Transit Dialogue Steering Committee (RTD) when it met this week in downtown Oklahoma City.
“The decisions that we make are going to be very important and effect people for a long time to come,” said Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett.
Three rail corridors are suggested in the study including a link to the $120 million modern street car system being constructed with an intermodal hub in downtown Oklahoma City.

RTD calls for the hub to link Edmond, Norman, Midwest City and Tinker Air Force Base, said Hollie Massey, special programs officer with the ****ociation of Central Oklahoma Governments. Stakeholder meetings and meetings for the public will be scheduled to address each corridor separately.

Oklahoma City ranked last among the 50th largest metro areas as best prepared for $4 gasoline, according to a 2008 study by Common Current. Oklahoma City ranked 84th out of 100 metro areas in serving the transit needs of its workforce, the Brookings Institute reported in 2011.

“Economic success in the 21st century means making a region attractive for an educated workforce,” said Marion Hutchison, an appointed citizen member of the RTD II Steering Committee. He is also chairman of OnTrac, a not-for-profit rail transit public interest organization, which is the reason for his appointment to the steering committee.

Rail transit is about economic development. Rail transit raises property values and tax revenue, supports retail districts and accelerates urban renewal, Hutchison said. It is a competitive tool already completed or in stages of development by many of the metro’s peer cities surrounding the state.
Even though we hear rail transit needs to be subsidized, you’re counting your fares versus what it costs to operate the thing,” Hutchison said. “No one ever takes into account the tremendous local and state tax revenues that result from these systems.”

Energy efficient rail transit improves the quality of life with cleaner air, he said. People enjoy urban life without being so dependent on an automobile, Hutchison said.

Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) has generated an additional $128 million for the City of Dallas in annual tax revenues and $4.5 billion in property value increases, he said.

The RTD steering committee oversees the $1.25 million “Commuter Rail Corridor Analysis” being conducted by URS Corporation for ACOG. RTD is specifically looking at commuter rail as the most likely option for the metro and not light rail, Hutchison said.

DART is an example of light rail, which differs from commuter rail. Light rail runs on dedicated electric tracks on a special right-of-way, Hutchison said. Powered by diesel and electricity, the Heartland Flyer is an example of commuter rail running on existing freight tracks.
Light rail is more expensive to construct than commuter rail at a cost of $60 million to $80 million per track mile. Commuter rail costs $8 million to $10 million per mile, Hutchison said. This all-encompassing cost includes maintenance, acquiring right-of-way, laying down the track and operating the system.

“To build a light rail system between Edmond, Oklahoma City and Norman would cost $2 billion to $3 billion, whereas a commuter rail system would cost only $200-300 million,” Hutchison told The Edmond Sun.

Salt Lake City’s FrontRunner commuter rail system directly services Hill Air Force Base in Ogden. Hill is one of Tinker’s direct competitors. RTD is using the successful FrontRunner system as an example of the type of system RTD considers best for the metro.

“We’ve heard a lot about Tinker wanting to have a rail transit mode,” Hutchison said. “I just think that’s an important thing to know as we go forward in the discussion.”
The City of Denver estimates its redevelopment with transit rail will create 10,000 new jobs in its metro, Hutchison said.
“It’s going to cause many businesses to move to Denver because companies know their employees don’t like to sit in traffic,” he added.

[party1234]

Kinda sad that the city has to promote a sports team as the reason for the city being great. What about m**** transit? What about education? Libraries? World cl**** museums? An arts district? Music venues? Economic opportunities outside of oil and gas? Outdoor activities such as a close beach or mountains? A true variety of food? Great farmers markets? All, and much much more, are what okc lacks, and what prevents it from becoming a truly great city.

[mgsooner]

But having a pro sports team in town automatically makes your life exponentially more fulfilling!!!

[McRib]

Kinda sad that the city has to promote a sports team as the reason for the city being great. What about m**** transit? What about education? Libraries? World cl**** museums? An arts district? Music venues? Economic opportunities outside of oil and gas? Outdoor activities such as a close beach or mountains? A true variety of food? Great farmers markets? All, and much much more, are what okc lacks, and what prevents it from becoming a truly great city.

Dammit. I demand mountains & a beach right meow. :: stomps foot ::

[soonerdm]

Kinda sad that the city has to promote a sports team as the reason for the city being great. What about m**** transit? What about education? Libraries? World cl**** museums? An arts district? Music venues? Economic opportunities outside of oil and gas? Outdoor activities such as a close beach or mountains? A true variety of food? Great farmers markets? All, and much much more, are what okc lacks, and what prevents it from becoming a truly great city.

They showcased water recreation, music and the many museums around OKC so I'm nit sure what you saw.

[party1234]

They showcased water recreation, music and the many museums around OKC so I'm nit sure what you saw.

What museums in OKC would be considered a world cl**** museum? That stupid cowboy museum? The city also severely lacks midsize music venues that attract artists that aren't played on the pop radio stations and selling out arenas.

[PokeJ]

Seattle will be on the rise next year!

[soonerdm]

What museums in OKC would be considered a world cl**** museum? That stupid cowboy museum?

Got me. Plenty of nice traveling exhibits hit OKC art museum. I know Sam Noble is a nice one. I don't think the purpose of the video was "Hey we're like New York City or Chicago" It was more like "We really do have more than tepees and truck bombs". But you're right we don't have the history of a world cl**** city so **** it we shouldn't try to better it.

[madbrad]

Jesus Christ people...

The point of the video was to show how OKC is growing. Is it on par with bigger cities that already have m**** transit? No, but they want people to move there so they can keep growing and get all that ****.

[SpankyNek]

What museums in OKC would be considered a world cl**** museum? That stupid cowboy museum? The city also severely lacks midsize music venues that attract artists that aren't played on the pop radio stations and selling out arenas.

Not world cl**** in contemporary art, but the 45th infantry museum, firefighters museum, air and space museum, and the (Norman) natural history museum are definitely well above average. Haven't been to the Art Museum since it was redone.

[SoCaliSooner]

Got me. Plenty of nice traveling exhibits hit OKC art museum. I know Sam Noble is a nice one. I don't think the purpose of the video was "Hey we're like New York City or Chicago" It was more like "We really do have more than tepees and truck bombs". But you're right we don't have the history of a world cl**** city so **** it we shouldn't try to better it.

"OKC: We got NBA ball and our **** hasn't been blown up in a while. Move here!"

[soonerdm]

"OKC: We got NBA ball and our **** hasn't been blown up in a while. Move here!"

As stated previously they highlighted the many areas of water recreation and diverse music.

"Come to Cali, we gots famous people and wine.. but not the good wine"

[madbrad]

"OKC: We got NBA ball and our **** hasn't been blown up in a while. Move here!"

Not funny

[SoCaliSooner]

As stated previously they highlighted the many areas of water recreation and diverse music.

"Come to Cali, we gots famous people and wine.. but not the good wine"

I'd also put our national parks, lakes, beaches and museums/aquariums on par with most places.

I recall many of the water recreational places in oklahoma being shut down because of algae and bacteria, droughts lowering levels of rivers and lakes. Maybe it's all fixed now.

I like how the video highlighted the growing Hispanic populations. Make that video in Spanish and take some of our ****ers.

[soonerdm]

I'd also put our national parks, lakes, beaches and museums/aquariums on par with most places.

I recall many of the water recreational places in oklahoma being shut down because of algae and bacteria, droughts lowering levels of rivers and lakes. Maybe it's all fixed now.

I like how the video highlighted the growing Hispanic populations. Make that video in Spanish and take some of our ****ers.

I'll trade you our white trash for your Mexicans any day of the week.

And yes the drought is bad hopefully it is cyclical as well.

[SoCaliSooner]

I'll trade you our white trash for your Mexicans any day of the week.

And yes the drought is bad hopefully it is cyclical as well.

I'll make that trade. They are fueling the gangs so you can have them. The white trash will just pill/drink themselves out of existence.

[mgsooner]

Let's not forget that OKC has quite the Latino gang problem themselves.

[soonerdm]

I wouldn't say its a huge problem. Most the homicides I read about in the DOK are white people and white victims in the poor area of the city. Every city has crime and drawback. OKC was only showcasing it strengths. It's not like I put on my resume "Spend excessive amount of time on sports message boards trolling idiots and talking dirty to internet chicks"

[mgsooner]

It's not like I put on my resume "Spend excessive amount of time on sports message boards trolling idiots and talking dirty to internet chicks"

You should

[OU48A]

According to the teachers and police that I have spoken with Latino gangs (and other gangs) are big problem in the OKC schools and on the south side of OKC.
Arrests are very common at OKC south side schools. There was a big race fight at one middle school with plenty of arrest just this past Friday.

[ngintunr]

OK white trash>Illegal Mexicans.

[fdubzou]

Personally, I thoroughly enjoy visiting the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum every time I go to Oklahoma City. When my grandmother was alive, she used to be a volunteer there. I don't know why anyone would consider it stupid. There's a lot of history in how the western part of this country was settled (yes, this includes California), and I think the museum does a wonderful job of showcasing that.

Now that my grandmother has passed, I doubt I'll be making many more trips to OKC except to attend football games. That makes me sort of sad. While it isn't LA or New York or anything, I always considered it to be a city that had a nice balance of hustle and bustle or entertainment of a larger city, with the quaint feeling of security and community of a smaller town. Not everyone needs or wants to live in a giant urban metropolis. I hope it never turns into Dallas with the rampant materialism and douchebaggery.

What has always impressed me about Oklahomans in general is their hospitality. Adam Duritz of Counting Crows said it about as well as can be said.

"I've spent most of my life living in cities where people are obsessed with looking down on people from everywhere else. You get so used to doing it that you start to believe it's simply what everyone does. It makes for an atmosphere of unwelcome that penetrates much of our modern life. It's a shame really because a couple days in Oklahoma will open your eyes to how much better it would be if the rest of the country was filled with a few more people from Oklahoma."

I'll never understand some people's need to put people down simply because of the city they are from or call home.

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[deadserious]

What will the next Maps vote include?


I am thinking that it will include commuter rail between Edmond and Norman with several stops along the way.
There would be an OU stop.
This would help OU commuters and people who attend events at OU.

Will. Never. Happen.

Oklahoma's fast food culture will have to change drastically before that vote passes. People in Oklahoma and Texas love their F-150s and Tahoes too much for trains. Also, in order for trains to work, you have to have a massively intricate and efficient bus system or it makes no sense, because OKC isn't going to be building an above and below ground system large enough to support the sprawl that the OKC metro is. It's all or nothing. Either go all out or build the massive failure that is DART in Dallas. The trolleys? Just stop. Be original. What, is OKC trying to San Antonio AND San Francisco? Should we rename the city to San Oklahoma?

Signed,

Denver resident.

[soonerdm]

"I've spent most of my life living in cities where people are obsessed with looking down on people from everywhere else. You get so used to doing it that you start to believe it's simply what everyone does. It makes for an atmosphere of unwelcome that penetrates much of our modern life. It's a shame really because a couple days in Oklahoma will open your eyes to how much better it would be if the rest of the country was filled with a few more people from Oklahoma."

I'll never understand some people's need to put people down simply because of the city they are from or call home.

He should have said "With the exclusion of Edmonites"

[SpankyNek]

Will. Never. Happen.

Oklahoma's fast food culture will have to change drastically before that vote passes. People in Oklahoma and Texas love their F-150s and Tahoes too much for trains. Also, in order for trains to work, you have to have a massively intricate and efficient bus system or it makes no sense, because OKC isn't going to be building an above and below ground system large enough to support the sprawl that the OKC metro is. It's all or nothing. Either go all out or build the massive failure that is DART in Dallas. The trolleys? Just stop. Be original. What, is OKC trying to San Antonio AND San Francisco? Should we rename the city to San Oklahoma?

Signed,

Denver resident.

Oklahoma City installed their trolley system in 1902, about thirty years after similar systems were utilized in Sf and Chicago, and about 40 years after they were commonplace in New Orleans.

it is a historical homage.

Your big-top airport is ridiculous.

Signed,
Houston Resident.

[OU48A]

Will. Never. Happen.

Oklahoma's fast food culture will have to change drastically before that vote passes. People in Oklahoma and Texas love their F-150s and Tahoes too much for trains. Also, in order for trains to work, you have to have a massively intricate and efficient bus system or it makes no sense, because OKC isn't going to be building an above and below ground system large enough to support the sprawl that the OKC metro is. It's all or nothing. Either go all out or build the massive failure that is DART in Dallas. The trolleys? Just stop. Be original. What, is OKC trying to San Antonio AND San Francisco? Should we rename the city to San Oklahoma?

Signed,

Denver resident.

What’s in the planning stages for OKC is not really that comparable to DART’s scale or price tag.
It would be far cheaper to construct and still hit many of our major spots in our area.
It would also be one item that could help keep Tinker AF in OKC…
We cannot afford to lose Tinker AF.

[fdubzou]

Wait, so now cities shouldn't implement infrastructure already being utilized in other cities? You people crack me up.


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[OU48A]

Looking back to the depths of the oil bust many were very skeptical about the city’s future… It was all pretty much doom and gloom. Then came the promise of MAPS, many were still very skeptical but said what the heck, we don’t have much to lose. We were blessed by OKC leadership that pushed through several more MAPS votes…. By the last MAPS vote most were convinced that it was the best way to improve our destiny.

When watching the video I was struck by how far OKC has come in such a short amount of time.

Almost every maps project is consider a success and because of this City leaders have built up a tremendous amount of good will and trust on issues like these with the people.

To keep the momentum moving OKC will need further infrastructure transportation improvements. I – 35 south of I-40 can’t really be widen anymore without buying large amounts of expensive property. Commuter rail is the most cost effective method to aid commuters.


About the only realistic I-35 alternative would be to build a new interstate expressway from west of Noble, to the south and east sides of Norman, to the Tinker area and on north to near the I-44 and the I-35 junction in Edmond. I not sure how many billions that would cost but it would probably need to be a toll road that many would avoid. + Most commuters live near I -35

[Cowboy1964adam]

Tulsa is going to host the olympics eventually, can OKC say that? NOPE.

[IndySooner]

Not world cl**** in contemporary art, but the 45th infantry museum, firefighters museum, air and space museum, and the (Norman) natural history museum are definitely well above average. Haven't been to the Art Museum since it was redone.

This is where I speak up and tell you ****holes that you have to go to the OKC MOA. (my wife is important there and I have to)

[fdubzou]

Tulsa is going to host the olympics eventually, can OKC say that? NOPE.

Says the guy whose avatar is an OKC Thunder logo...


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[deadserious]

Oklahoma City installed their trolley system in 1902, about thirty years after similar systems were utilized in Sf and Chicago, and about 40 years after they were commonplace in New Orleans.

it is a historical homage.

Your big-top airport is ridiculous.

Signed,
Houston Resident.

^

Brought intense lulz ... Seriously.

[Cowboy1964adam]

Says the guy whose avatar is an OKC Thunder logo...


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So if you have an OU avatar does that make Norman better then whereever your arguing is better?

[deadserious]

Wait, so now cities shouldn't implement infrastructure already being utilized in other cities? You people crack me up.


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Not my point at all, but you guys keep showing your inferiority complex. ****ing a you OKC folks are so sensitive. Point is, you have to have the culture to support a transit system. If you think OKC has that culture, you're just ignorant. That's not me calling you all names, just stating that you're intensely misinformed. Secondly, there has to at least be some demand for such a system, which is usually intense frustration with commuting and existent traffic problems. OKC does not have that. OKC has **** traffic compared to Denver and more so, Dallas and Houston. Problem is, Dallas and almost every single ****ing city in Texas was too narrow-minded to foresee that a transit system was needed. Why? Simple. Culture. People in Texas (and Oklahoma) ****ing LOVE their giant vehicles with Murrica stickers on them. That ain't gonna change in OKC any time soon, no matter how ****ing proud of the Thunder and your rowing pond you are.

Next challenge: trains ****ing cost money. I use our Denver transit system all the time. I only typically have travel one zone, which takes me to downtown. That round trip is $2.25. If you are in Littleton and want to go downtown, triple that. You also then (and in most cases for me, even though I am in city center), have to drive your car to a parking garage. OKC folks are not going to ****ing drive, then park, then pay to take a train downtown. It ain't gonna happen. Denver has been insanely proactive and progressive about being ahead of the curve, but it has cost each of us a **** ton in taxes and it is subsidized at such a high rate it's almost disgusting.

Next point, the cost for OKC and the surrounding cities to build a system that makes sense for its customers is going to be astronomical, particularly because OKC is what, the largest city in terms of land m****? Huge challenge.

Next: sure, build a trolly. That will be a sweet novelty for all the old **** tourists that do the boat ride downtown. OKC already has a massive problem with losing young talent to cities like Dallas, Houston and Denver. A ****ing trolley means **** to young people.

So here's the qualifier: I am a HUGE advocate of OKC building the infrastructure. Dallas ****ed up big time by letting that opportunity p****. But - and you guys aren't gonna like hearing this - you're too ****ing lazy for transit and you know it. You don't walk or ride bikes. There is absolutely ZERO pedestrian infrastructure in OKC, which is an absolute MUST for a m**** transit system. You have to at least be able to walk to a bus that will take you to a train station. Not happening any time soon in OKC.

So two things: stop eating so much ****ing Sonic and also, vote yes for a massive system. It's gonna hack your taxes, but culturally, Oklahoma as a whole will be much better off for it.

Now, rip me to shreds. I will say, I used to live in OKC and I am proud of OKC's proactively, but OKC is still a ****ty place for a young person to live. And young people don't ****ing care about wannabe San Antonio riverboats and nostalgic trolly cars.

Make a massive transit system happen and watch large corporations begin moving to OKC. When that happens, bands will come. Venues will spring up. Museums will get better and your culture will improve.

Build it and they (young people), will come. ****ers (< --- I say that lovingly. Seriously.)

[fdubzou]

I don't live in OKC. Never have.


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[OU48A]

Build it and they (young people), will come. ****ers.

That’s what OKC is trying to do with commuter rail!

[WFSooner]

Will. Never. Happen.

Oklahoma's fast food culture will have to change drastically before that vote passes. People in Oklahoma and Texas love their F-150s and Tahoes too much for trains. Also, in order for trains to work, you have to have a massively intricate and efficient bus system or it makes no sense, because OKC isn't going to be building an above and below ground system large enough to support the sprawl that the OKC metro is. It's all or nothing. Either go all out or build the massive failure that is DART in Dallas. The trolleys? Just stop. Be original. What, is OKC trying to San Antonio AND San Francisco? Should we rename the city to San Oklahoma?

Signed,

Denver resident.

You're an idiot

Signed,

Norman resident.

[WFSooner]

Not my point at all, but you guys keep showing your inferiority complex. ****ing a you OKC folks are so sensitive. Point is, you have to have the culture to support a transit system. If you think OKC has that culture, you're just ignorant. That's not me calling you all names, just stating that you're intensely misinformed. Secondly, there has to at least be some demand for such a system, which is usually intense frustration with commuting and existent traffic problems. OKC does not have that. OKC has **** traffic compared to Denver and more so, Dallas and Houston. Problem is, Dallas and almost every single ****ing city in Texas was too narrow-minded to foresee that a transit system was needed. Why? Simple. Culture. People in Texas (and Oklahoma) ****ing LOVE their giant vehicles with Murrica stickers on them. That ain't gonna change in OKC any time soon, no matter how ****ing proud of the Thunder and your rowing pond you are.

Next challenge: trains ****ing cost money. I use our Denver transit system all the time. I only typically have travel one zone, which takes me to downtown. That round trip is $2.25. If you are in Littleton and want to go downtown, triple that. You also then (and in most cases for me, even though I am in city center), have to drive your car to a parking garage. OKC folks are not going to ****ing drive, then park, then pay to take a train downtown. It ain't gonna happen. Denver has been insanely proactive and progressive about being ahead of the curve, but it has cost each of us a **** ton in taxes and it is subsidized at such a high rate it's almost disgusting.

Next point, the cost for OKC and the surrounding cities to build a system that makes sense for its customers is going to be astronomical, particularly because OKC is what, the largest city in terms of land m****? Huge challenge.

Next: sure, build a trolly. That will be a sweet novelty for all the old **** tourists that do the boat ride downtown. OKC already has a massive problem with losing young talent to cities like Dallas, Houston and Denver. A ****ing trolley means **** to young people.

So here's the qualifier: I am a HUGE advocate of OKC building the infrastructure. Dallas ****ed up big time by letting that opportunity p****. But - and you guys aren't gonna like hearing this - you're too ****ing lazy for transit and you know it. You don't walk or ride bikes. There is absolutely ZERO pedestrian infrastructure in OKC, which is an absolute MUST for a m**** transit system. You have to at least be able to walk to a bus that will take you to a train station. Not happening any time soon in OKC.

So two things: stop eating so much ****ing Sonic and also, vote yes for a massive system. It's gonna hack your taxes, but culturally, Oklahoma as a whole will be much better off for it.

Now, rip me to shreds. I will say, I used to live in OKC and I am proud of OKC's proactively, but OKC is still a ****ty place for a young person to live. And young people don't ****ing care about wannabe San Antonio riverboats and nostalgic trolly cars.

Make a massive transit system happen and watch large corporations begin moving to OKC. When that happens, bands will come. Venues will spring up. Museums will get better and your culture will improve.

Build it and they (young people), will come. ****ers (< --- I say that lovingly. Seriously.)

Shouldn't be drinking on a Sunday night.

[drumhead23us]

I've never understood people's need to piss on another city. People used to do that all the time when I lived in PDX. If I told them I was from OKC/Norman, they'd literally laugh at me. If OKC isn't your brand of vodka...keep your **** at home. Pretty simple.

As far as specifics, I think it's a bit unfair to say that m**** transit is the catalyst to becoming a big-time city, especially considering that most people understand that m**** transit - at least in the forms we usually see it in in places like Chicago, Portland, NY, etc. - is virtually impossible due to the massive urban sprawl.

In all, I see a lot of people faulting OKC for things that are impossible to change. We don't have mountains, not real ones, anyway. We're never going to have beaches. Matter of fact, the vast majority of states in the US don't have them. Does that make them inferior places to live? Of course not. OKC is making huge strides on the things that can be changed, though. As for the bits about the Thunder, the fact it's highlighted so much is more an indictment on the rest of the country than it is us. It's not our fault people are simple enough to say "they have pro basketball, they must be legit now". The chamber is just smart enough to play that card that's been made so appealing by TNT and Disney.

I am perfectly happy to raise my kid here, and I have plenty to do. I can go visit Denver, LA, Philly, Chicago, wherever if the desire so strikes me. I guess bottom line is that I love it here. If you don't...tough ****.

[mgsooner]

Tulsa is going to host the olympics eventually, can OKC say that? NOPE.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[OU48A]

I've never understood people's need to piss on another city. People used to do that all the time when I lived in PDX. If I told them I was from OKC/Norman, they'd literally laugh at me. If OKC isn't your brand of vodka...keep your **** at home. Pretty simple.

As far as specifics, I think it's a bit unfair to say that m**** transit is the catalyst to becoming a big-time city, especially considering that most people understand that m**** transit - at least in the forms we usually see it in in places like Chicago, Portland, NY, etc. - is virtually impossible due to the massive urban sprawl.

In all, I see a lot of people faulting OKC for things that are impossible to change. We don't have mountains, not real ones, anyway. We're never going to have beaches. Matter of fact, the vast majority of states in the US don't have them. Does that make them inferior places to live? Of course not. OKC is making huge strides on the things that can be changed, though. As for the bits about the Thunder, the fact it's highlighted so much is more an indictment on the rest of the country than it is us. It's not our fault people are simple enough to say "they have pro basketball, they must be legit now". The chamber is just smart enough to play that card that's been made so appealing by TNT and Disney.

I am perfectly happy to raise my kid here, and I have plenty to do. I can go visit Denver, LA, Philly, Chicago, wherever if the desire so strikes me. I guess bottom line is that I love it here. If you don't...tough ****.

Personally if you are any indication, I am kind of glad that you are not raising your kid in our area.

[ngintunr]

Not my point at all, but you guys keep showing your inferiority complex. ****ing a you OKC folks are so sensitive. Point is, you have to have the culture to support a transit system. If you think OKC has that culture, you're just ignorant. That's not me calling you all names, just stating that you're intensely misinformed. Secondly, there has to at least be some demand for such a system, which is usually intense frustration with commuting and existent traffic problems. OKC does not have that. OKC has **** traffic compared to Denver and more so, Dallas and Houston. Problem is, Dallas and almost every single ****ing city in Texas was too narrow-minded to foresee that a transit system was needed. Why? Simple. Culture. People in Texas (and Oklahoma) ****ing LOVE their giant vehicles with Murrica stickers on them. That ain't gonna change in OKC any time soon, no matter how ****ing proud of the Thunder and your rowing pond you are.

Next challenge: trains ****ing cost money. I use our Denver transit system all the time. I only typically have travel one zone, which takes me to downtown. That round trip is $2.25. If you are in Littleton and want to go downtown, triple that. You also then (and in most cases for me, even though I am in city center), have to drive your car to a parking garage. OKC folks are not going to ****ing drive, then park, then pay to take a train downtown. It ain't gonna happen. Denver has been insanely proactive and progressive about being ahead of the curve, but it has cost each of us a **** ton in taxes and it is subsidized at such a high rate it's almost disgusting.

Next point, the cost for OKC and the surrounding cities to build a system that makes sense for its customers is going to be astronomical, particularly because OKC is what, the largest city in terms of land m****? Huge challenge.

Next: sure, build a trolly. That will be a sweet novelty for all the old **** tourists that do the boat ride downtown. OKC already has a massive problem with losing young talent to cities like Dallas, Houston and Denver. A ****ing trolley means **** to young people.

So here's the qualifier: I am a HUGE advocate of OKC building the infrastructure. Dallas ****ed up big time by letting that opportunity p****. But - and you guys aren't gonna like hearing this - you're too ****ing lazy for transit and you know it. You don't walk or ride bikes. There is absolutely ZERO pedestrian infrastructure in OKC, which is an absolute MUST for a m**** transit system. You have to at least be able to walk to a bus that will take you to a train station. Not happening any time soon in OKC.

So two things: stop eating so much ****ing Sonic and also, vote yes for a massive system. It's gonna hack your taxes, but culturally, Oklahoma as a whole will be much better off for it.

Now, rip me to shreds. I will say, I used to live in OKC and I am proud of OKC's proactively, but OKC is still a ****ty place for a young person to live. And young people don't ****ing care about wannabe San Antonio riverboats and nostalgic trolly cars.

Make a massive transit system happen and watch large corporations begin moving to OKC. When that happens, bands will come. Venues will spring up. Museums will get better and your culture will improve.

Build it and they (young people), will come. ****ers (< --- I say that lovingly. Seriously.)

Denver. LOL.

[drumhead23us]

Personally if you are any indication, I am kind of glad that you are not raising your kid in our area.

You're going to have to explain that.

Either you can't read or I can't. Which one is it?

[OU48A]

You're going to have to explain that.

Either you can't read or I can't. Which one is it?

on edit
VERY BAD POST that was wrong!

[mgsooner]

You must be too drunk to comprehend….
In other words, if your kid turns out anything like you I am glad that both of you don’t live in our area.

You seem angry.

[drumhead23us]

edit: Thunder Up

[Drake]

Not my point at all, but you guys keep showing your inferiority complex. ****ing a you OKC folks are so sensitive. Point is, you have to have the culture to support a transit system. If you think OKC has that culture, you're just ignorant. That's not me calling you all names, just stating that you're intensely misinformed. Secondly, there has to at least be some demand for such a system, which is usually intense frustration with commuting and existent traffic problems. OKC does not have that. OKC has **** traffic compared to Denver and more so, Dallas and Houston. Problem is, Dallas and almost every single ****ing city in Texas was too narrow-minded to foresee that a transit system was needed. Why? Simple. Culture. People in Texas (and Oklahoma) ****ing LOVE their giant vehicles with Murrica stickers on them. That ain't gonna change in OKC any time soon, no matter how ****ing proud of the Thunder and your rowing pond you are.

Next challenge: trains ****ing cost money. I use our Denver transit system all the time. I only typically have travel one zone, which takes me to downtown. That round trip is $2.25. If you are in Littleton and want to go downtown, triple that. You also then (and in most cases for me, even though I am in city center), have to drive your car to a parking garage. OKC folks are not going to ****ing drive, then park, then pay to take a train downtown. It ain't gonna happen. Denver has been insanely proactive and progressive about being ahead of the curve, but it has cost each of us a **** ton in taxes and it is subsidized at such a high rate it's almost disgusting.

Next point, the cost for OKC and the surrounding cities to build a system that makes sense for its customers is going to be astronomical, particularly because OKC is what, the largest city in terms of land m****? Huge challenge.

Next: sure, build a trolly. That will be a sweet novelty for all the old **** tourists that do the boat ride downtown. OKC already has a massive problem with losing young talent to cities like Dallas, Houston and Denver. A ****ing trolley means **** to young people.

So here's the qualifier: I am a HUGE advocate of OKC building the infrastructure. Dallas ****ed up big time by letting that opportunity p****. But - and you guys aren't gonna like hearing this - you're too ****ing lazy for transit and you know it. You don't walk or ride bikes. There is absolutely ZERO pedestrian infrastructure in OKC, which is an absolute MUST for a m**** transit system. You have to at least be able to walk to a bus that will take you to a train station. Not happening any time soon in OKC.

So two things: stop eating so much ****ing Sonic and also, vote yes for a massive system. It's gonna hack your taxes, but culturally, Oklahoma as a whole will be much better off for it.

Now, rip me to shreds. I will say, I used to live in OKC and I am proud of OKC's proactively, but OKC is still a ****ty place for a young person to live. And young people don't ****ing care about wannabe San Antonio riverboats and nostalgic trolly cars.

Make a massive transit system happen and watch large corporations begin moving to OKC. When that happens, bands will come. Venues will spring up. Museums will get better and your culture will improve.

Build it and they (young people), will come. ****ers (< --- I say that lovingly. Seriously.)

Oh goodie.

Its another from an internet poster that is going to keep it real and tell everybody how things REALLY are. LOL

[WFSooner]

You must be too drunk to comprehend….
In other words, if your kid turns out anything like you I am glad that both of you don’t live in our area.

Don't get this post at all.

[OU48A]

Yes that was very stupid of me!

I got you mixed up with deadserious. I hope you will accept my sincere apology.

[mgsooner]

Yes that was very stupid of me!

I got you mix up withdeadserious. I hope you will accept my sincere apology.

lol wut