My church hates the gays

Posted 601 day(s) ago by SoonerSean038026 Views 385 Replies
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  1. #201
    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Your "like" is an indication of accordance of thought. (This is one of the two, in general, purposes for the button. With the other use being that it brought you happiness, my inference was that you agreed that his assertion that the Bible is not always meant to be taken literally, as if this stance was opposite your line of thinking, you certainly wouldn't "like" someone basing their argument over such a ****ization of decree)

    My earlier quotation was the end result of the argument when critically reasoned based upon numerous earlier pieces of evidence that not only do you, generally, cling to a defined literal reading of the Bible, you constrain such literal translations to, again generally, very recent translations.

    I thought you were, perhaps, "seeing the light" wrt literal translation of (especially Old Testament) Scripture.
    there is no light to be seen...
    the bible is a vast book..
    altho a few mental midgets on this board have made attempts to get me to say the entire bible should be interpreted literally.....i have never said that.....

  2. #202
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    Originally Posted by IndySooner View Post
    Identified by whom?
    Short of taking it as the Word of God I haven't given to a ton of thought . . . maybe one possible "whom" would be Jewish law at the time?

  3. #203
    Thread Title needs to change...OP no longer goes to this church...bullshit advertising.

  4. #204
    Originally Posted by Teo9969 View Post
    Thread Title needs to change...OP no longer goes to this church...bullshit advertising.
    maybe the mods could change it to "mcrib's church hates the gays"...

  5. #205
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    And now the argument inherently shifts to what parts of Scripture are to be taken literally...discounting the attack upon the omniscience of God inherent in any translation of Gen 18:20-21, while simultaneously ascribing certainty for the reasoning behind God's anger displayed in Genesis 20.

  6. #206
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    And now the argument inherently shifts to what parts of Scripture are to be taken literally...discounting the attack upon the omniscience of God inherent in any translation of Gen 18:20-21, while simultaneously ascribing certainty for the reasoning behind God's anger displayed in Genesis 20.
    Just take into account when this was written and who it was written to. Apocalyptic writing at it's finest . . .

  7. #207
    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    And now the argument inherently shifts to what parts of Scripture are to be taken literally...discounting the attack upon the omniscience of God inherent in any translation of Gen 18:20-21, while simultaneously ascribing certainty for the reasoning behind God's anger displayed in Genesis 20.

    God's "reasoning" .........was "grievous sin".......is it necessary to identify precisely which sin or sins caused the destruction of sodom & gomorrah?
    ezekial/romans/1 timothy/1 corinthians/jude......give plenty of clues as to what those "grievous sins" were.....if you're being intellectually honest......you can be certain....

  8. #208
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    Originally Posted by VUGear View Post
    No, we shouldn't take everything the Bible says literally. God knew what was going on. It's just like when you know your kid did something wrong but you ask them about it anyway: "how did that vase get broken?"
    he said he didn't know and had only heard about it. your analogy makes god out to be a liar

  9. #209
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    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    he said he didn't know and had only heard about it. your analogy makes god out to be a liar
    Not exactly. It's quite reasonable to see from the entirety of Genesis 18:20-33 that God already knew what was happening. In fact, he knew it so well that each time Abraham asked if God would spare the people based on an ever lower minimum number of righteous folk, God readily agreed, going from fifty all the way down to ten.

    God no more needed to visit Sodom than he needed to "look for" Adam hiding in the Garden of Eden. The use of anthropomorphisms in the Bible does not restrict God's abilities. The visit to S&G was to let the people know that God was officially taking account and acting in full consideration of the facts for appearance's sake, without making a rash judgment from afar in his act of making an example out of S&G. There are numerous examples of this "learning" on the part of God throughout the Bible. The work of Henry M. Morris in his book The Genesis Record is rather helpful here.

  10. #210
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    you know it wouldn't withstand the light of truth being shined on it don't u......
    mallonhead tried and failed....
    don't be afraid to give it a shot....you're way smarter than a farmer right?
    Your light of truth? You are probably right. G-D's light of truth; I'd disagree. He's told me personally that He loves me and accepts me the way He made me.

    We don't even speak the same language; you're convinced that what your pastor says the bible says is the truth; I don't. So to have the discussion with you is pointless as subsequent posts from others today clearly shows.

  11. #211
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    Originally Posted by brokebacksooner View Post
    Your light of truth? You are probably right. G-D's light of truth; I'd disagree. He's told me personally that He loves me and accepts me the way He made me.

    We don't even speak the same language; you're convinced that what your pastor says the bible says is the truth; I don't. So to have the discussion with you is pointless as subsequent posts from others today clearly shows.

    Please don't take this as an attack on your position, but I would like to hear you POV about what truths you see in the Bible and how you take them into consideration during your life . . . I hold firm to the belief that your church and your preacher aren't going to get you to Heaven. You have to "do your homework" and take the extra time to grow closer to God. I'm not the most consistent by any means, but that is one thing I truly believe. Some folks believe simply showing up and checking the box of attending on Sunday is sufficient and no other work is needed on their part.

  12. #212
    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Please don't take this as an attack on your position, but I would like to hear you POV about what truths you see in the Bible and how you take them into consideration during your life . . . I hold firm to the belief that your church and your preacher aren't going to get you to Heaven. You have to "do your homework" and take the extra time to grow closer to God. I'm not the most consistent by any means, but that is one thing I truly believe. Some folks believe simply showing up and checking the box of attending on Sunday is sufficient and no other work is needed on their part.
    I very much agree with that.

  13. #213
    if I went to 87's church would that get me into heaven? he knows god better than anyone else here

  14. #214
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    if I went to 87's church would that get me into heaven? he knows god better than anyone else here
    As long as you dont mind picketing funerals and harass innocent people.
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  15. #215
    it's easy to tell when you guys give up...

    i guess that's game/set/match.....

  16. #216
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    it's easy to tell when you guys give up...

    i guess that's game/set/match.....
    I wouldn't call it giving up, just can already anticipate all your responses...it's not as fun anymore so we resort to jokes or otherwise the conversation is dead
    2 users like greensooner's post: Aurora, brokebacksooner


  17. #217
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    I wouldn't call it giving up, just can already anticipate all your responses...it's not as fun anymore so we resort to jokes or otherwise the conversation is dead
    you should try debating vugear.....that would be fun wouldn't it?

  18. #218
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    Originally Posted by VUGear View Post
    Not exactly. It's quite reasonable to see from the entirety of Genesis 18:20-33 that God already knew what was happening. In fact, he knew it so well that each time Abraham asked if God would spare the people based on an ever lower minimum number of righteous folk, God readily agreed, going from fifty all the way down to ten.

    God no more needed to visit Sodom than he needed to "look for" Adam hiding in the Garden of Eden. The use of anthropomorphisms in the Bible does not restrict God's abilities. The visit to S&G was to let the people know that God was officially taking account and acting in full consideration of the facts for appearance's sake, without making a rash judgment from afar in his act of making an example out of S&G. There are numerous examples of this "learning" on the part of God throughout the Bible. The work of Henry M. Morris in his book The Genesis Record is rather helpful here.
    sure, you can guess about his intentions, but i can also say he meant it exactly as he was quoted.

  19. #219
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    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    sure, you can guess about his intentions, but i can also say he meant it exactly as he was quoted.
    You're welcome to make your own personal interpretation, but again I don't think we should take everything the Bible says literally. In the book of Job when God says, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?” it doesn't mean God was ignorant there either.

  20. #220
    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    sure, you can guess about his intentions, but i can also say he meant it exactly as he was quoted.

    so you believe genesis 18:20 "exactly as it's quoted"........
    do you believe the rest of the bible "exactly as it's quoted"?
    also......are you an atheist?

  21. #221
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    so you believe genesis 18:20 "exactly as it's quoted"........
    do you believe the rest of the bible "exactly as it's quoted"?
    also......are you an atheist?
    genesis 18: 20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”


    i lack the imagination to see it any other way.

  22. #222
    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    genesis 18: 20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”


    i lack the imagination to see it any other way.
    do you believe the rest of the bible "exactly as it's quoted"?
    also......are you an atheist?

  23. #223
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    there is no light to be seen...
    the bible is a vast book..
    altho a few mental midgets on this board have made attempts to get me to say the entire bible should be interpreted literally.....i have never said that.....
    How do you know which scripture to take literally and which shouldn't? Is there some special marker? Or do you just get to make it up based on what you want to be literal and what you want to not be literal?

  24. #224
    Originally Posted by theskipster View Post
    How do you know which scripture to take literally and which shouldn't? Is there some special marker? Or do you just get to make it up based on what you want to be literal and what you want to not be literal?
    well let's take genesis 18:20 as an example....
    i know God is all knowing......so i know God knows everything that is happening in sodom before He goes there.....pretty simple...
    it's amusing that atheists.... ...cling to simple verses like this as proof that a God they don't even believe exists....is not all knowing.....

  25. #225
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    well let's take genesis 18:20 as an example....
    i know God is all knowing......so i know God knows everything that is happening in sodom before He goes there.....pretty simple...
    it's amusing that atheists.... ...cling to simple verses like this as proof that a God they don't even believe exists....is not all knowing.....
    post 84

    sodom was not destroyed because the men wanted to **** an angel...
    it was destroyed because of the behavior of everyone in the town prior to the angels' fact finding tour...

    genesis 18: 20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

    you introduced this verse to the thread,

    why would the angels be on a "fact finding tour" when god already knows everything?

  26. #226

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Why did someone have to die for our sins?

  27. #227
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    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    Why did someone have to die for our sins?
    So we would no longer need to provide sacrifices to God when asking for forgiveness and/or repenting.

  28. #228

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    So we would no longer need to provide sacrifices to God when asking for forgiveness and/or repenting.
    Why did we have to kill someone for forgiveness? So god broke his own commandments?

  29. #229
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    My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    Why did we have to kill someone for forgiveness? So god broke his own commandments?
    Jesus wasn't just a somebody. He is called the lamb of god because of his ultimate sacrifice

  30. #230
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    If the discussion has now become, "Let's poke logic holes in Christianity," you've already won.
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  31. #231
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    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    Why did we have to kill someone for forgiveness? So god broke his own commandments?
    Sigh

  32. #232
    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    post 84

    sodom was not destroyed because the men wanted to **** an angel...
    it was destroyed because of the behavior of everyone in the town prior to the angels' fact finding tour...

    genesis 18: 20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

    you introduced this verse to the thread,

    why would the angels be on a "fact finding tour" when god already knows everything?
    do you believe the rest of the bible "exactly as it's quoted"?
    also......are you an atheist?

  33. #233
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    Nothing is more pathetic than using a man written book as your proof for God. You guys are delusional.
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  34. #234
    Originally Posted by azwe View Post
    Nothing is more pathetic than using a man written book as your proof for God. You guys are delusional.
    nothing more pathetic than an atheist whorn...

  35. #235
    87 you are so quick to damn people to hell, it's surprising to me you claim yourself to be a just Christian

    and honestly my biggest issue with Christianity is that it's all based and predicated on fear, fear which is used to control and quite successfully I might add

    if I don't do this I go to hell, if I don't do that I go to hell....why would I want to live my life based upon fear and not love and understanding, faith does not lend itself to anything other than surrending this life for a proposed afterlife in heaven...I choose to be a good person and to do good deeds and live a good life b/c that is the life I want to live, not b/c I'm afraid of going to hell

    you guys believe it to be love that he gave his son for all of us to be forgiven, I believe only a petty god would lament and torture its human subjects in the manner in which the bible proclaims God does...we are born full of sin and must be forgiven and turn away from things of the flesh or we will be cast in the lake of fire and our names forever removed from the book of life

    The bible says time and time again that god is a jealous god, I can't help but think that god was created by man...a very petty, jealous man or a group of them due to the nature of God as conveyed in the bible
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  36. #236
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    87 you are so quick to damn people to hell, it's surprising to me you claim yourself to be a just Christian

    and honestly my biggest issue with Christianity is that it's all based and predicated on fear, fear which is used to control and quite successfully I might add

    if I don't do this I go to hell, if I don't do that I go to hell....why would I want to live my life based upon fear and not love and understanding, faith does not lend itself to anything other than surrending this life for a proposed afterlife in heaven...I choose to be a good person and to do good deeds and live a good life b/c that is the life I want to live, not b/c I'm afraid of going to hell

    you guys believe it to be love that he gave his son for all of us to be forgiven, I believe only a petty god would lament and torture its human subjects in the manner in which the bible proclaims God does...we are born full of sin and must be forgiven and turn away from things of the flesh or we will be cast in the lake of fire and our names forever removed from the book of life

    The bible says time and time again that god is a jealous god, I can't help but think that god was created by man...a very petty, jealous man or a group of them due to the nature of God as conveyed in the bible
    i'm quick to "damn people to hell" eh? really?
    you're welcome to fine one single quote from me to prove that lie....

  37. #237
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    i'm quick to "damn people to hell" eh? really?
    you're welcome to fine one single quote from me to prove that lie....
    as far as you're concerned you're the only Christian in the world who will make it to heaven, you and your family of course

    That is the representation that 87Sooner makes on Landthieves.com

  38. #238
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    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    87 you are so quick to damn people to hell, it's surprising to me you claim yourself to be a just Christian

    and honestly my biggest issue with Christianity is that it's all based and predicated on fear, fear which is used to control and quite successfully I might add

    if I don't do this I go to hell, if I don't do that I go to hell....why would I want to live my life based upon fear and not love and understanding, faith does not lend itself to anything other than surrending this life for a proposed afterlife in heaven...I choose to be a good person and to do good deeds and live a good life b/c that is the life I want to live, not b/c I'm afraid of going to hell

    you guys believe it to be love that he gave his son for all of us to be forgiven, I believe only a petty god would lament and torture its human subjects in the manner in which the bible proclaims God does...we are born full of sin and must be forgiven and turn away from things of the flesh or we will be cast in the lake of fire and our names forever removed from the book of life

    The bible says time and time again that god is a jealous god, I can't help but think that god was created by man...a very petty, jealous man or a group of them due to the nature of God as conveyed in the bible
    green, I are mistaken on your issue with Christianity. It's not based and predicated on fear. It's based on hope and love and forgiveness.

  39. #239
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    as far as you're concerned you're the only Christian in the world who will make it to heaven, you and your family of course

    That is the representation that 87Sooner makes on Landthieves.com

    just as i thought....you couldn't....
    so you resort to another lie....

    so i'll fify...


    as far as i'm concerned you're the only Christian in the world who will make it to heaven, you and your family of course

    That is the representation that greensooner makes on Landthieves.com

  40. #240
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    green, I are mistaken on your issue with Christianity. It's not based and predicated on fear. It's based on hope and love and forgiveness.
    as a child I believed that, as an adult I just don't see it that way anymore...I actually went to church 2 weeks ago with my gf b/c she wanted me to come so I said ok

    I have no problem going but near the end before the final prayer, the pastor asked the congregation "where you gonna be when you die? if it's heaven, great...if it's hell you need to come up here"

    for me it always goes back to that question in regards to most conversations which leads me to the notion that christianity is based upon fear that if I don't do this I'm going to hell...that progresses to the idea that fear can be used as a control mechanism and when it's as widely based as christianity is there is a huge element of peer pressure on everyone in the congregation

    I will say I liked the pastor, but that question has haunted me for over a decade and I hate it...how could I not see that as a fear driven tactic?

  41. #241
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    just as i thought....you couldn't....
    so you resort to another lie....

    so i'll fify...
    I'm not going to sift through your nearly 10K posts, I'll just point it out as I read it from you going forward. You are pretty extreme in your views and not open to discussion on anything. Hell you said it the other day that you would admit if you were wrong but can't remember the last time you were. Pride and/or Vanity much?

  42. #242
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    I'm not going to sift through your nearly 10K posts, I'll just point it out as I read it from you going forward. You are pretty extreme in your views and not open to discussion on anything. Hell you said it the other day that you would admit if you were wrong but can't remember the last time you were. Pride and/or Vanity much?
    i'm open to discussion on anything.....
    but let me tell you how it doesn't work....
    you post lies......and i agree with them...
    i know that's how you'd like the "discussion" to go.....but it just doesn't work that way

  43. #243
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    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    as a child I believed that, as an adult I just don't see it that way anymore...I actually went to church 2 weeks ago with my gf b/c she wanted me to come so I said ok

    I have no problem going but near the end before the final prayer, the pastor asked the congregation "where you gonna be when you die? if it's heaven, great...if it's hell you need to come up here"

    for me it always goes back to that question in regards to most conversations which leads me to the notion that christianity is based upon fear that if I don't do this I'm going to hell...that progresses to the idea that fear can be used as a control mechanism and when it's as widely based as christianity is there is a huge element of peer pressure on everyone in the congregation

    I will say I liked the pastor, but that question has haunted me for over a decade and I hate it...how could I not see that as a fear driven tactic?
    yeah, thats a little whack. I guess I ahven't been exposed to anything besides Catholicism, besides a few services as LifeChurch and various other places.

  44. #244
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    i'm open to discussion on anything.....
    but let me tell you how it doesn't work....
    you post lies......and i agree with them...
    i know that's how you'd like the "discussion" to go.....but it just doesn't work that way
    look, like I said I'll quote posts of yours in the future and show you what I mean...that's as far as this discussion we are having now will go until your next damning post

  45. #245
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    yeah, thats a little whack. I guess I ahven't been exposed to anything besides Catholicism, besides a few services as LifeChurch and various other places.
    why do you say it's "whack"?
    oh i know why......because catholics are all going to heaven

    sounds like greensooneratheist went to a baptist church.....
    that's what happens at the end of service..it's called the altar call.....
    if you haven't confessed your sins and asked Jesus to be the Lord of your life.....you can't know for sure where you'll spend eternity....
    that john 14:6 thingy.....

  46. #246
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    why do you say it's "whack"?
    oh i know why......because catholics are all going to heaven

    sounds like greensooneratheist went to a baptist church.....
    that's what happens at the end of service..it's called the altar call.....
    if you haven't confessed your sins and asked Jesus to be the Lord of your life.....you can't know for sure where you'll spend eternity....
    that john 14:6 thingy.....
    your name calling is weak, figured an **** like yourself could do better than that

  47. #247
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    your name calling is weak, figured an **** like yourself could do better than that
    you don't like to be called an atheist?
    would you prefer dumbazz? that's what mallonhead likes.....

  48. #248
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    why do you say it's "whack"?
    oh i know why......because catholics are all going to heaven
    No, b/c I don't think a spot in hell or heaven is guarenteed and that it isn't a pastor's job to say "If you aren't going to Heaven, come on down in front of everybody and you will"


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  49. #249
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    you don't like to be called an atheist?
    would you prefer dumbazz? that's what mallonhead likes.....
    87christian just call him a christian....it will really show him as it carries more of a negative stigma.

  50. #250
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    you don't like to be called an atheist?
    would you prefer dumbazz? that's what mallonhead likes.....
    you could just call me atheist, yet you added it to my name in an attempt at humor in what was not funny at all

    you're my favorite person on here b/c of your extremist views and your defense mechanisms...you should write a book about how great you are

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