My church hates the ****s

[SpankyNek]

that's what my "like" means?

Your "like" is an indication of accordance of thought. (This is one of the two, in general, purposes for the button. With the other use being that it brought you happiness, my inference was that you agreed with his ****ertion that the Bible is not always meant to be taken literally, as if this stance was opposite your line of thinking, you certainly wouldn't "like" someone basing their argument over such a ****ization of decree)

My earlier quotation was the end result of the argument when critically reasoned based upon numerous earlier pieces of evidence that not only do you, generally, cling to a defined literal reading of the Bible, you constrain such literal translations to, again generally, very recent bible "versions."

I thought you were, perhaps, "seeing the light" wrt literal translation of (especially Old Testament) Scripture.

[87sooner]

Your "like" is an indication of accordance of thought. (This is one of the two, in general, purposes for the button. With the other use being that it brought you happiness, my inference was that you agreed that his ****ertion that the Bible is not always meant to be taken literally, as if this stance was opposite your line of thinking, you certainly wouldn't "like" someone basing their argument over such a ****ization of decree)

My earlier quotation was the end result of the argument when critically reasoned based upon numerous earlier pieces of evidence that not only do you, generally, cling to a defined literal reading of the Bible, you constrain such literal translations to, again generally, very recent translations.

I thought you were, perhaps, "seeing the light" wrt literal translation of (especially Old Testament) Scripture.

there is no light to be seen...
the bible is a vast book..
altho a few mental midgets on this board have made attempts to get me to say the entire bible should be interpreted literally.....i have never said that.....

[Sooner Bob]

Identified by whom?

Short of taking it as the Word of God I haven't given to a ton of thought . . . maybe one possible "whom" would be Jewish law at the time?

[Teo9969]

Thread Title needs to change...OP no longer goes to this church...bull**** advertising.

[87sooner]

Thread Title needs to change...OP no longer goes to this church...bull**** advertising.

maybe the mods could change it to "mcrib's church hates the ****s"...

[SpankyNek]

And now the argument inherently shifts to what parts of Scripture are to be taken literally...discounting the attack upon the omniscience of God inherent in any translation of Gen 18:20-21, while simultaneously ascribing certainty for the reasoning behind God's anger displayed in Genesis 20.

[Sooner Bob]

And now the argument inherently shifts to what parts of Scripture are to be taken literally...discounting the attack upon the omniscience of God inherent in any translation of Gen 18:20-21, while simultaneously ascribing certainty for the reasoning behind God's anger displayed in Genesis 20.

Just take into account when this was written and who it was written to. Apocalyptic writing at it's finest . . .

[87sooner]

And now the argument inherently shifts to what parts of Scripture are to be taken literally...discounting the attack upon the omniscience of God inherent in any translation of Gen 18:20-21, while simultaneously ascribing certainty for the reasoning behind God's anger displayed in Genesis 20.

God's "reasoning" .........was "grievous sin".......is it necessary to identify precisely which sin or sins caused the destruction of sodom & gomorrah?
ezekial/romans/1 timothy/1 corinthians/jude......give plenty of clues as to what those "grievous sins" were.....if you're being intellectually honest......you can be certain....

[surus]

No, we shouldn't take everything the Bible says literally. God knew what was going on. It's just like when you know your kid did something wrong but you ask them about it anyway: "how did that vase get broken?"

he said he didn't know and had only heard about it. your analogy makes god out to be a liar

[VUGear]

he said he didn't know and had only heard about it. your analogy makes god out to be a liar

Not exactly. It's quite reasonable to see from the entirety of Genesis 18:20-33 that God already knew what was happening. In fact, he knew it so well that each time Abraham asked if God would spare the people based on an ever lower minimum number of righteous folk, God readily agreed, going from fifty all the way down to ten.

God no more needed to visit Sodom than he needed to "look for" Adam hiding in the Garden of Eden. The use of anthropomorphisms in the Bible does not restrict God's abilities. The visit to S&G was to let the people know that God was officially taking account and acting in full consideration of the facts for appearance's sake, without making a rash judgment from afar in his act of making an example out of S&G. There are numerous examples of this "learning" on the part of God throughout the Bible. The work of Henry M. Morris in his book The Genesis Record is rather helpful here.

[brokebacksooner]

you know it wouldn't withstand the light of truth being shined on it don't u......
mallonhead tried and failed....
don't be afraid to give it a shot....you're way smarter than a farmer right?

Your light of truth? You are probably right. G-D's light of truth; I'd disagree. He's told me personally that He loves me and accepts me the way He made me.

We don't even speak the same language; you're convinced that what your pastor says the bible says is the truth; I don't. So to have the discussion with you is pointless as subsequent posts from others today clearly shows.

[Sooner Bob]

Your light of truth? You are probably right. G-D's light of truth; I'd disagree. He's told me personally that He loves me and accepts me the way He made me.

We don't even speak the same language; you're convinced that what your pastor says the bible says is the truth; I don't. So to have the discussion with you is pointless as subsequent posts from others today clearly shows.

Please don't take this as an attack on your position, but I would like to hear you POV about what truths you see in the Bible and how you take them into consideration during your life . . . I hold firm to the belief that your church and your preacher aren't going to get you to Heaven. You have to "do your homework" and take the extra time to grow closer to God. I'm not the most consistent by any means, but that is one thing I truly believe. Some folks believe simply showing up and checking the box of attending on Sunday is sufficient and no other work is needed on their part.

[brokebacksooner]

Please don't take this as an attack on your position, but I would like to hear you POV about what truths you see in the Bible and how you take them into consideration during your life . . . I hold firm to the belief that your church and your preacher aren't going to get you to Heaven. You have to "do your homework" and take the extra time to grow closer to God. I'm not the most consistent by any means, but that is one thing I truly believe. Some folks believe simply showing up and checking the box of attending on Sunday is sufficient and no other work is needed on their part.

I very much agree with that.

[greensooner]

if I went to 87's church would that get me into heaven? he knows god better than anyone else here

[URNotserious]

if I went to 87's church would that get me into heaven? he knows god better than anyone else here

As long as you dont mind picketing funerals and har**** innocent people.

[87sooner]

it's easy to tell when you guys give up...

i guess that's game/set/match.....

[greensooner]

it's easy to tell when you guys give up...

i guess that's game/set/match.....

I wouldn't call it giving up, just can already anticipate all your responses...it's not as fun anymore so we resort to jokes or otherwise the conversation is dead

[87sooner]

I wouldn't call it giving up, just can already anticipate all your responses...it's not as fun anymore so we resort to jokes or otherwise the conversation is dead

you should try debating vugear.....that would be fun wouldn't it?

[surus]

Not exactly. It's quite reasonable to see from the entirety of Genesis 18:20-33 that God already knew what was happening. In fact, he knew it so well that each time Abraham asked if God would spare the people based on an ever lower minimum number of righteous folk, God readily agreed, going from fifty all the way down to ten.

God no more needed to visit Sodom than he needed to "look for" Adam hiding in the Garden of Eden. The use of anthropomorphisms in the Bible does not restrict God's abilities. The visit to S&G was to let the people know that God was officially taking account and acting in full consideration of the facts for appearance's sake, without making a rash judgment from afar in his act of making an example out of S&G. There are numerous examples of this "learning" on the part of God throughout the Bible. The work of Henry M. Morris in his book The Genesis Record is rather helpful here.

sure, you can guess about his intentions, but i can also say he meant it exactly as he was quoted.

[VUGear]

sure, you can guess about his intentions, but i can also say he meant it exactly as he was quoted.

You're welcome to make your own personal interpretation, but again I don't think we should take everything the Bible says literally. In the book of Job when God says, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?” it doesn't mean God was ignorant there either.

[87sooner]

sure, you can guess about his intentions, but i can also say he meant it exactly as he was quoted.

so you believe genesis 18:20 "exactly as it's quoted"........
do you believe the rest of the bible "exactly as it's quoted"?
also......are you an atheist?

[surus]

so you believe genesis 18:20 "exactly as it's quoted"........
do you believe the rest of the bible "exactly as it's quoted"?
also......are you an atheist?

genesis 18: 20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”


i lack the imagination to see it any other way.

[87sooner]

genesis 18: 20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”


i lack the imagination to see it any other way.

do you believe the rest of the bible "exactly as it's quoted"?
also......are you an atheist?

[theskipster]

there is no light to be seen...
the bible is a vast book..
altho a few mental midgets on this board have made attempts to get me to say the entire bible should be interpreted literally.....i have never said that.....

How do you know which scripture to take literally and which shouldn't? Is there some special marker? Or do you just get to make it up based on what you want to be literal and what you want to not be literal?

[87sooner]

How do you know which scripture to take literally and which shouldn't? Is there some special marker? Or do you just get to make it up based on what you want to be literal and what you want to not be literal?

well let's take genesis 18:20 as an example....
i know God is all knowing......so i know God knows everything that is happening in sodom before He goes there.....pretty simple...
it's amusing that atheists.... ...cling to simple verses like this as proof that a God they don't even believe exists....is not all knowing.....

[surus]

well let's take genesis 18:20 as an example....
i know God is all knowing......so i know God knows everything that is happening in sodom before He goes there.....pretty simple...
it's amusing that atheists.... ...cling to simple verses like this as proof that a God they don't even believe exists....is not all knowing.....

post 84

sodom was not destroyed because the men wanted to **** an angel...
it was destroyed because of the behavior of everyone in the town prior to the angels' fact finding tour...

genesis 18: 20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

you introduced this verse to the thread,

why would the angels be on a "fact finding tour" when god already knows everything?

[Sooner 4 Life]

Why did someone have to die for our sins?

[Sooner Bob]

Why did someone have to die for our sins?

So we would no longer need to provide sacrifices to God when asking for forgiveness and/or repenting.

[Sooner 4 Life]

So we would no longer need to provide sacrifices to God when asking for forgiveness and/or repenting.

Why did we have to kill someone for forgiveness? So god broke his own commandments?

[SoonerBounce]

Why did we have to kill someone for forgiveness? So god broke his own commandments?

Jesus wasn't just a somebody. He is called the lamb of god because of his ultimate sacrifice

[OUMallen]

If the discussion has now become, "Let's poke logic holes in Christianity," you've already won.

[Sooner Bob]

Why did we have to kill someone for forgiveness? So god broke his own commandments?

Sigh

[87sooner]

post 84

sodom was not destroyed because the men wanted to **** an angel...
it was destroyed because of the behavior of everyone in the town prior to the angels' fact finding tour...

genesis 18: 20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

you introduced this verse to the thread,

why would the angels be on a "fact finding tour" when god already knows everything?

do you believe the rest of the bible "exactly as it's quoted"?
also......are you an atheist?

[azwe]

Nothing is more pathetic than using a man written book as your proof for God. You guys are delusional.

[87sooner]

Nothing is more pathetic than using a man written book as your proof for God. You guys are delusional.

nothing more pathetic than an atheist whorn...

[greensooner]

87 you are so quick to damn people to hell, it's surprising to me you claim yourself to be a just Christian

and honestly my biggest issue with Christianity is that it's all based and predicated on fear, fear which is used to control and quite successfully I might add

if I don't do this I go to hell, if I don't do that I go to hell....why would I want to live my life based upon fear and not love and understanding, faith does not lend itself to anything other than surrending this life for a proposed afterlife in heaven...I choose to be a good person and to do good deeds and live a good life b/c that is the life I want to live, not b/c I'm afraid of going to hell

you guys believe it to be love that he gave his son for all of us to be forgiven, I believe only a petty god would lament and torture its human subjects in the manner in which the bible proclaims God does...we are born full of sin and must be forgiven and turn away from things of the flesh or we will be cast in the lake of fire and our names forever removed from the book of life

The bible says time and time again that god is a jealous god, I can't help but think that god was created by man...a very petty, jealous man or a group of them due to the nature of God as conveyed in the bible

[87sooner]

87 you are so quick to damn people to hell, it's surprising to me you claim yourself to be a just Christian

and honestly my biggest issue with Christianity is that it's all based and predicated on fear, fear which is used to control and quite successfully I might add

if I don't do this I go to hell, if I don't do that I go to hell....why would I want to live my life based upon fear and not love and understanding, faith does not lend itself to anything other than surrending this life for a proposed afterlife in heaven...I choose to be a good person and to do good deeds and live a good life b/c that is the life I want to live, not b/c I'm afraid of going to hell

you guys believe it to be love that he gave his son for all of us to be forgiven, I believe only a petty god would lament and torture its human subjects in the manner in which the bible proclaims God does...we are born full of sin and must be forgiven and turn away from things of the flesh or we will be cast in the lake of fire and our names forever removed from the book of life

The bible says time and time again that god is a jealous god, I can't help but think that god was created by man...a very petty, jealous man or a group of them due to the nature of God as conveyed in the bible

i'm quick to "damn people to hell" eh? really?
you're welcome to fine one single quote from me to prove that lie....

[greensooner]

i'm quick to "damn people to hell" eh? really?
you're welcome to fine one single quote from me to prove that lie....

as far as you're concerned you're the only Christian in the world who will make it to heaven, you and your family of course

That is the representation that 87Sooner makes on Landthieves.com

[SoonerBounce]

87 you are so quick to damn people to hell, it's surprising to me you claim yourself to be a just Christian

and honestly my biggest issue with Christianity is that it's all based and predicated on fear, fear which is used to control and quite successfully I might add

if I don't do this I go to hell, if I don't do that I go to hell....why would I want to live my life based upon fear and not love and understanding, faith does not lend itself to anything other than surrending this life for a proposed afterlife in heaven...I choose to be a good person and to do good deeds and live a good life b/c that is the life I want to live, not b/c I'm afraid of going to hell

you guys believe it to be love that he gave his son for all of us to be forgiven, I believe only a petty god would lament and torture its human subjects in the manner in which the bible proclaims God does...we are born full of sin and must be forgiven and turn away from things of the flesh or we will be cast in the lake of fire and our names forever removed from the book of life

The bible says time and time again that god is a jealous god, I can't help but think that god was created by man...a very petty, jealous man or a group of them due to the nature of God as conveyed in the bible

green, I are mistaken on your issue with Christianity. It's not based and predicated on fear. It's based on hope and love and forgiveness.

[87sooner]

as far as you're concerned you're the only Christian in the world who will make it to heaven, you and your family of course

That is the representation that 87Sooner makes on Landthieves.com

just as i thought....you couldn't....
so you resort to another lie....

so i'll fify...

as far as i'm concerned you're the only Christian in the world who will make it to heaven, you and your family of course

That is the representation that greensooner makes on Landthieves.com

[greensooner]

green, I are mistaken on your issue with Christianity. It's not based and predicated on fear. It's based on hope and love and forgiveness.

as a child I believed that, as an adult I just don't see it that way anymore...I actually went to church 2 weeks ago with my gf b/c she wanted me to come so I said ok

I have no problem going but near the end before the final prayer, the pastor asked the congregation "where you gonna be when you die? if it's heaven, great...if it's hell you need to come up here"

for me it always goes back to that question in regards to most conversations which leads me to the notion that christianity is based upon fear that if I don't do this I'm going to hell...that progresses to the idea that fear can be used as a control mechanism and when it's as widely based as christianity is there is a huge element of peer pressure on everyone in the congregation

I will say I liked the pastor, but that question has haunted me for over a decade and I hate it...how could I not see that as a fear driven tactic?

[greensooner]

just as i thought....you couldn't....
so you resort to another lie....

so i'll fify...

I'm not going to sift through your nearly 10K posts, I'll just point it out as I read it from you going forward. You are pretty extreme in your views and not open to discussion on anything. Hell you said it the other day that you would admit if you were wrong but can't remember the last time you were. Pride and/or Vanity much?

[87sooner]

I'm not going to sift through your nearly 10K posts, I'll just point it out as I read it from you going forward. You are pretty extreme in your views and not open to discussion on anything. Hell you said it the other day that you would admit if you were wrong but can't remember the last time you were. Pride and/or Vanity much?

i'm open to discussion on anything.....
but let me tell you how it doesn't work....
you post lies......and i agree with them...
i know that's how you'd like the "discussion" to go.....but it just doesn't work that way

[SoonerBounce]

as a child I believed that, as an adult I just don't see it that way anymore...I actually went to church 2 weeks ago with my gf b/c she wanted me to come so I said ok

I have no problem going but near the end before the final prayer, the pastor asked the congregation "where you gonna be when you die? if it's heaven, great...if it's hell you need to come up here"

for me it always goes back to that question in regards to most conversations which leads me to the notion that christianity is based upon fear that if I don't do this I'm going to hell...that progresses to the idea that fear can be used as a control mechanism and when it's as widely based as christianity is there is a huge element of peer pressure on everyone in the congregation

I will say I liked the pastor, but that question has haunted me for over a decade and I hate it...how could I not see that as a fear driven tactic?

yeah, thats a little whack. I guess I ahven't been exposed to anything besides Catholicism, besides a few services as LifeChurch and various other places.

[greensooner]

i'm open to discussion on anything.....
but let me tell you how it doesn't work....
you post lies......and i agree with them...
i know that's how you'd like the "discussion" to go.....but it just doesn't work that way

look, like I said I'll quote posts of yours in the future and show you what I mean...that's as far as this discussion we are having now will go until your next damning post

[87sooner]

yeah, thats a little whack. I guess I ahven't been exposed to anything besides Catholicism, besides a few services as LifeChurch and various other places.

why do you say it's "whack"?
oh i know why......because catholics are all going to heaven

sounds like greensooneratheist went to a baptist church.....
that's what happens at the end of service..it's called the altar call.....
if you haven't confessed your sins and asked Jesus to be the Lord of your life.....you can't know for sure where you'll spend eternity....
that john 14:6 thingy.....

[greensooner]

why do you say it's "whack"?
oh i know why......because catholics are all going to heaven

sounds like greensooneratheist went to a baptist church.....
that's what happens at the end of service..it's called the altar call.....
if you haven't confessed your sins and asked Jesus to be the Lord of your life.....you can't know for sure where you'll spend eternity....
that john 14:6 thingy.....

your name calling is weak, figured an ****hole like yourself could do better than that

[87sooner]

your name calling is weak, figured an ****hole like yourself could do better than that

you don't like to be called an atheist?
would you prefer dumbazz? that's what mallonhead likes.....

[SoonerBounce]

why do you say it's "whack"?
oh i know why......because catholics are all going to heaven

No, b/c I don't think a spot in hell or heaven is guarenteed and that it isn't a pastor's job to say "If you aren't going to Heaven, come on down in front of everybody and you will"


[/QUOTE]

[URNotserious]

you don't like to be called an atheist?
would you prefer dumbazz? that's what mallonhead likes.....

87christian just call him a christian....it will really show him as it carries more of a negative stigma.