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you could just call me atheist, yet you added it to my name in an attempt at humor in what was not funny at allOriginally Posted by 87sooner
you're my favorite person on here b/c of your extremist views and your defense mechanisms...you should write a book about how great you are
not true, while I don't agree with christianity's views it doesn't hold a negative stigma to me
try harder b/c you're doing it wrong
You can never be doing it wrong if you're baiting 87 and his fundamentalist/extremist views.
Never.
The following users like this post: greensooner
yes...a spot in heaven is guaranteed.....it's a promise God made....
the pastor's job isn't to say "you will"....it's to say "you need to take these steps......."
i'm sure your priest does the same thing....in a different way...
So you are guaranteed to go to heaven?
FWIW, technically I don't believe there's actual torture. Torment maybe, but not strictly torture.
Yes, there is an element of fear I suppose, but when your doctor tells you that you have a certain disease and you need to take this medicine or have that procedure done, it's not meant as fear mongering; it's meant to save your life. The Christian message is not that if you do certain things you'll go to hell; the christian message is that you're already destined for hell... but there's a way to get out of it.
If you ask for forgiveness and repent of your sins and proclaim that you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died on the cross for your sins . . . . and are a faithful follower.
a spot in heaven is guaranteed for everyone .....who "believes" in Jesus
what "believes" means is debatable...
that's a lot of if's to say you are guarenteed to go to Heaven
To me a guarentee is, hey go get baptized and you are good.
so one "if" = guarantee......but multiple "ifs" doesn't?
And the Jews.
messianic jews...yes.
According to the bible?
The little research I have done on this matter indicates that the messianic Judaism movement began in the late 1960s.
Perhaps you are talking about converts....or are you saying that the Torah is scripturally equal to the Bible?
He has no idea what he is saying but I ****ure you he believes 100% he is correct..
john 15: 18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25
i'm saying Jesus brought a new covenant that includes jews.... john 14:6
Yes, but it does not erase the old covenant at all. It makes both covenants a path to salvation.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Pfft. Short of how you live your life everything else happens pretty much at the same time. What's to be concerned about?
That doesn't mean that you can then go back to live the life you had before getting baptized. Still gotta repent . . .
Is Chris Culliver the pastor?
i disagree...
acts 4: 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
phillipians 2: 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
john 1: 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
John 4
Matthew 522 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship; for salvation is of the Jews.
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth p****, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise p**** from the law, till all be fulfilled. Lk. 16.17
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
john 4:22 ....niv says "salvation is FROM the jews........meaning the Savior....the Messiah.....is from jewish line...which Jesus is.......
matthew 5......how does this negate the requirement for jews to acknowledge Jesus as Messiah?
here's another one for you...
matthew 10: 32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
You ate failing in comprehension right now.
How u live your life is a HUGE part of getting into heaven
Exactly my point. Nobody is guaranteed to go to heaven
Why would such a matter be important to a Samarian? Did they believe that the messiah would be Jewish?
I am unaware of a requirement to accept Christ as messiah in the Sermon on the Mount...are you simply claiming that "called great in the kingdom of Heaven" does not equate to salvation?matthew 5......how does this negate the requirement for jews to acknowledge Jesus as Messiah?
Do Jews do this?here's another one for you...
matthew 10: 32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
Not saying it isn't . . . you implied that there were a lot of "ifs" in my statement so I just tried to clarify.
If you follow the plan of salvation laid out by God and recognize your sin with the understanding that you can't make it there without forgiveness/repentance then it's about as close to a guarantee as you can get IMO. Nobody ever said once you're saved you cease to sin and the second you do you're banned from Heaven.
The following users like this post: 87sooner
Jesus is making a point to the samaritan woman.....she claimed her ancestors worshiped on "this mountain"....
Jesus was saying her ancestors worshiped something they didnt know.....that the jews worshiped God.....and salvation comes from the jews (Jesus)
read the entire text for context...
john 4: 19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” 21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.did you read the verses i quoted in acts/phillipians/john 1 and john 14:6? those sound to me like requirements to accept Christ for salvation ....
notice in matthew 5:19.....both the "least" and the "great" are BOTH in heaven.......???
all men are sinners (break the law/commandments)......some do better than others......however.....ALL are saved thru faith in Jesus Christ the Savior......
do what?
you sound like a baptist
I am fully aware of the context, it is the context which leads me to ascertain that "salvation is of the Jews" does not refer to the messiah being a Jew, rather that the Jews, having worshipped the true God, have salvation. In addition, his larger point is that worshipping God need not be done in a place constructed for such purposes.
yes ALL are saved through faith in Jesus Christ....but there are others that will dwell in heaven for other reasons than that. (Eg: Jews)did you read the verses i quoted in acts/phillipians/john 1 and john 14:6? those sound to me like requirements to accept Christ for salvation ....
notice in matthew 5:19.....both the "least" and the "great" are BOTH in heaven.......???
all men are sinners (break the law/commandments)......some do better than others......however.....ALL are saved thru faith in Jesus Christ the Savior......
"Disown" the Son before "others"do what?
i disagree
if you are right...Jesus died for nothing...
yes....jews do precisely that...
Heh. I've only attended a handful of services at a baptist church . . . . that's predominantly where my brothers and parents go though.you sound like a baptist
I don't mean to make it sound easy, or really take the once saved always saved approach (although I can see where you might infer that) I just think if you give it your best shot, recognize that you'll screw-up, but try to live your life for Christ you've done your part. You can't necessarily work your way in or buy your way in . . . you just follow the plan, stick with the plan and you're in.
I disagree...
If you are right, there are scores of unfairly damned in most areas of the world for centuries after his crucifixion...
Where?yes....jews do precisely that...
Life isn't fair.
Neither is the afterlife, apparently.
2 users like SpankyNek's post: IndySooner, Yuck Fu
Exactly. We are on the same page.
87 is making it sound like it is a sure deal he is going to Heaven, or anybody for that matter. It's not. You still have to live your life right.
LOL...I know...sucks for some.
fify
maybe God will let you make the rules next time.....
everywhere.....
ask any jew if Jesus is the Messiah....
john 5: 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
romans 10: 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
acts 16: 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
i'm not saying it's easy......
just look how difficult it is for the atheists on this board....
but once you commit your life to God.....and you bow to His will.....He guides you on a path to righteousness......and eternal life in heaven....it's not something one can do on their own....
one more for good measure...for spanky
john 3: 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Last edited by 87sooner; 02-01-2013 at 08:11 PM.
maybe God will just change the rules again.
What if never posed the question?everywhere.....
ask any jew if Jesus is the Messiah....
We have the security blanket of information these days.
I refuse to believe that those who did not accept Christ, merely because they knew not of his existence, are damned. One can come to know Him through acts as Jesus stated in the Sermon on the Mount. (This does not apply to those that rebuke Him is where I agree with you)
87's idea of God is simply not a god worthy of being worshiped.
Why do so many people believe in god?
Because they can't think for themselves. Other than that I have no ****ing clue.
I kind of see it like this.
I was born in Oklahoma. My folks both went to OU. I became an OU fan at a young age as I developed an interest in football.
Had I been born in Texas and my folks had been graduates of Texas I would have been a Longhorn fan.
The fact that I realize this makes me somewhat like being an atheist in religion. I realize the whole idea that my fandom is based on happenstance.
87 was born in the USA where the predominant religion is Christendom. Had he been born in the middle east he would be a muslim. Had he been born in India more than likely he would be a Hindu. 87, however, isn't willing to admit this as he feels like somehow he would have been able to "see the light" and be a Christian had he been born elswhere.
3 users like Yuck Fu's post: greensooner, IcanzIIravor, Sooner 4 Life
except i grew up in a family with no ties to any school.....and no interest in sports...
i started watching football on my own....and immediately i was drawn to the beauty and excellence of ou football....
similarly....my parents were catholic but stopped going when i was about 4 years old...
i only attended church for family funerals...
when i was 33....i started attending church and at about 40....when i switched to a baptist church.....was when i became "saved" and i really found the truth in God...
i am definitely thankful i was born here in the us......i can't say what i'd believe today if i had not.......altho place of birth is not an excuse to believe a lie...
you are exactly right....you don't have a ****ing clue......
you don't think for yourself....someone told you a lie and you believed it......
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