My church hates the gays

Posted 635 day(s) ago by SoonerSean038167 Views 385 Replies
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  1. #251
    Originally Posted by URNotserious View Post
    87christian just call him a christian....it will really show him as it carries more of a negative stigma.
    not true, while I don't agree with christianity's views it doesn't hold a negative stigma to me

    try harder b/c you're doing it wrong

  2. #252
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    not true, while I don't agree with christianity's views it doesn't hold a negative stigma to me

    try harder b/c you're doing it wrong
    You can never be doing it wrong if you're baiting 87 and his fundamentalist/extremist views.

    Never.
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  3. #253
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    No, b/c I don't think a spot in hell or heaven is guarenteed and that it isn't a pastor's job to say "If you aren't going to Heaven, come on down in front of everybody and you will"

    yes...a spot in heaven is guaranteed.....it's a promise God made....
    the pastor's job isn't to say "you will"....it's to say "you need to take these steps......."
    i'm sure your priest does the same thing....in a different way...

  4. #254
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    My church hates the gays

    So you are guaranteed to go to heaven?

  5. #255
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    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    I believe only a petty god would lament and torture its human subjects in the manner in which the bible proclaims God does...
    FWIW, technically I don't believe there's actual torture. Torment maybe, but not strictly torture.


    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    as afor me it always goes back to that question in regards to most conversations which leads me to the notion that christianity is based upon fear that if I don't do this I'm going to hell...that progresses to the idea that fear can be used as a control mechanism and when it's as widely based as christianity is there is a huge element of peer pressure on everyone in the congregation
    Yes, there is an element of fear I suppose, but when your doctor tells you that you have a certain disease and you need to take this medicine or have that procedure done, it's not meant as fear mongering; it's meant to save your life. The Christian message is not that if you do certain things you'll go to hell; the christian message is that you're already destined for hell... but there's a way to get out of it.

  6. #256
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    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    So you are guaranteed to go to heaven?
    If you ask for forgiveness and repent of your sins and proclaim that you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died on the cross for your sins . . . . and are a faithful follower.

  7. #257
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    So you are guaranteed to go to heaven?
    a spot in heaven is guaranteed for everyone .....who "believes" in Jesus
    what "believes" means is debatable...

  8. #258
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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    If you ask for forgiveness and repent of your sins and proclaim that you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died on the cross for your sins . . . . and are a faithful follower.
    that's a lot of if's to say you are guarenteed to go to Heaven

  9. #259
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    To me a guarentee is, hey go get baptized and you are good.

  10. #260
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    To me a guarentee is, hey go get baptized and you are good.
    so one "if" = guarantee......but multiple "ifs" doesn't?

  11. #261
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    a spot in heaven is guaranteed for everyone .....who "believes" in Jesus
    what "believes" means is debatable...
    And the Jews.

  12. #262
    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    And the Jews.
    messianic jews...yes.

  13. #263
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    messianic jews...yes.
    According to the bible?

    The little research I have done on this matter indicates that the messianic Judaism movement began in the late 1960s.

    Perhaps you are talking about converts....or are you saying that the Torah is scripturally equal to the Bible?

  14. #264
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    According to the bible?

    The little research I have done on this matter indicates that the messianic Judaism movement began in the late 1960s.

    Perhaps you are talking about converts....or are you saying that the Torah is scripturally equal to the Bible?

    He has no idea what he is saying but I assure you he believes 100% he is correct..

  15. #265
    Originally Posted by URNotserious View Post
    87christian just call him a christian....it will really show him as it carries more of a negative stigma.



    You can never be doing it wrong if you're baiting 87 and his fundamentalist/extremist views.

    Never.

    john 15: 18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25

  16. #266
    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    According to the bible?

    The little research I have done on this matter indicates that the messianic Judaism movement began in the late 1960s.

    Perhaps you are talking about converts....or are you saying that the Torah is scripturally equal to the Bible?
    i'm saying Jesus brought a new covenant that includes jews.... john 14:6

  17. #267
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    i'm saying Jesus brought a new covenant that includes jews.... john 14:6
    Yes, but it does not erase the old covenant at all. It makes both covenants a path to salvation.

    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

  18. #268
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    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    that's a lot of if's to say you are guarenteed to go to Heaven
    Pfft. Short of how you live your life everything else happens pretty much at the same time. What's to be concerned about?

  19. #269
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    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    To me a guarentee is, hey go get baptized and you are good.

    That doesn't mean that you can then go back to live the life you had before getting baptized. Still gotta repent . . .

  20. #270
    Is Chris Culliver the pastor?

  21. #271
    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Yes, but it does not erase the old covenant at all. It makes both covenants a path to salvation.
    i disagree...

    acts 4: 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected,
    which has become the cornerstone.’
    12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”



    phillipians 2: 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
    10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

    john 1: 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

  22. #272
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    i disagree...

    acts 4: 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected,
    which has become the cornerstone.’
    12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”



    phillipians 2: 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
    10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

    john 1: 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
    John 4
    22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship; for salvation is of the Jews.
    Matthew 5
    17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Lk. 16.17
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

  23. #273
    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    John 4 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship; for salvation is of the Jews.

    Matthew 5
    17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Lk. 16.17
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.





    john 4:22 ....niv says "salvation is FROM the jews........meaning the Savior....the Messiah.....is from jewish line...which Jesus is.......

    matthew 5......how does this negate the requirement for jews to acknowledge Jesus as Messiah?

    here's another one for you...

    matthew 10: 32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

  24. #274
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    My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    so one "if" = guarantee......but multiple "ifs" doesn't?
    You ate failing in comprehension right now.

  25. #275
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    My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Pfft. Short of how you live your life everything else happens pretty much at the same time. What's to be concerned about?
    How u live your life is a HUGE part of getting into heaven

  26. #276
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    My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    That doesn't mean that you can then go back to live the life you had before getting baptized. Still gotta repent . . .
    Exactly my point. Nobody is guaranteed to go to heaven

  27. #277
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    john 4:22 ....niv says "salvation is FROM the jews........meaning the Savior....the Messiah.....is from jewish line...which Jesus is.......
    Why would such a matter be important to a Samarian? Did they believe that the messiah would be Jewish?

    matthew 5......how does this negate the requirement for jews to acknowledge Jesus as Messiah?
    I am unaware of a requirement to accept Christ as messiah in the Sermon on the Mount...are you simply claiming that "called great in the kingdom of Heaven" does not equate to salvation?
    here's another one for you...

    matthew 10: 32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Do Jews do this?

  28. #278
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    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    How u live your life is a HUGE part of getting into heaven
    Not saying it isn't . . . you implied that there were a lot of "ifs" in my statement so I just tried to clarify.

  29. #279
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    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    Exactly my point. Nobody is guaranteed to go to heaven
    If you follow the plan of salvation laid out by God and recognize your sin with the understanding that you can't make it there without forgiveness/repentance then it's about as close to a guarantee as you can get IMO. Nobody ever said once you're saved you cease to sin and the second you do you're banned from Heaven.
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  30. #280
    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Why would such a matter be important to a Samarian? Did they believe that the messiah would be Jewish?
    Jesus is making a point to the samaritan woman.....she claimed her ancestors worshiped on "this mountain"....
    Jesus was saying her ancestors worshiped something they didnt know.....that the jews worshiped God.....and salvation comes from the jews (Jesus)

    read the entire text for context...

    john 4: 19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” 21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    I am unaware of a requirement to accept Christ as messiah in the Sermon on the Mount...are you simply claiming that "called great in the kingdom of Heaven" does not equate to salvation?
    did you read the verses i quoted in acts/phillipians/john 1 and john 14:6? those sound to me like requirements to accept Christ for salvation ....
    notice in matthew 5:19.....both the "least" and the "great" are BOTH in heaven.......???
    all men are sinners (break the law/commandments)......some do better than others......however.....ALL are saved thru faith in Jesus Christ the Savior......

    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Do Jews do this?
    do what?

  31. #281
    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    If you follow the plan of salvation laid out by God and recognize your sin with the understanding that you can't make it there without forgiveness/repentance then it's about as close to a guarantee as you can get IMO. Nobody ever said once you're saved you cease to sin and the second you do you're banned from Heaven.

    you sound like a baptist

  32. #282
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    Jesus is making a point to the samaritan woman.....she claimed her ancestors worshiped on "this mountain"....
    Jesus was saying her ancestors worshiped something they didnt know.....that the jews worshiped God.....and salvation comes from the jews (Jesus)
    I am fully aware of the context, it is the context which leads me to ascertain that "salvation is of the Jews" does not refer to the messiah being a Jew, rather that the Jews, having worshipped the true God, have salvation. In addition, his larger point is that worshipping God need not be done in a place constructed for such purposes.
    did you read the verses i quoted in acts/phillipians/john 1 and john 14:6? those sound to me like requirements to accept Christ for salvation ....
    notice in matthew 5:19.....both the "least" and the "great" are BOTH in heaven.......???
    all men are sinners (break the law/commandments)......some do better than others......however.....ALL are saved thru faith in Jesus Christ the Savior......
    yes ALL are saved through faith in Jesus Christ....but there are others that will dwell in heaven for other reasons than that. (Eg: Jews)

    do what?
    "Disown" the Son before "others"

  33. #283
    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    I am fully aware of the context, it is the context which leads me to ascertain that "salvation is of the Jews" does not refer to the messiah being a Jew, rather that the Jews, having worshipped the true God, have salvation. In addition, his larger point is that worshipping God need not be done in a place constructed for such purposes.
    yes ALL are saved through faith in Jesus Christ....but there are others that will dwell in heaven for other reasons than that. (Eg: Jews)
    i disagree
    if you are right...Jesus died for nothing...

    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    "Disown" the Son before "others"
    yes....jews do precisely that...

  34. #284
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    you sound like a baptist
    Heh. I've only attended a handful of services at a baptist church . . . . that's predominantly where my brothers and parents go though.

    I don't mean to make it sound easy, or really take the once saved always saved approach (although I can see where you might infer that) I just think if you give it your best shot, recognize that you'll screw-up, but try to live your life for Christ you've done your part. You can't necessarily work your way in or buy your way in . . . you just follow the plan, stick with the plan and you're in.

  35. #285
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    i disagree
    if you are right...Jesus died for nothing...
    I disagree...
    If you are right, there are scores of unfairly damned in most areas of the world for centuries after his crucifixion...
    yes....jews do precisely that...
    Where?

  36. #286
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    I disagree...
    If you are right, there are scores of unfairly damned in most areas of the world for centuries after his crucifixion...

    Where?
    Life isn't fair.

  37. #287
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    Originally Posted by okie52 View Post
    Life isn't fair.
    Neither is the afterlife, apparently.
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  38. #288
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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    If you follow the plan of salvation laid out by God and recognize your sin with the understanding that you can't make it there without forgiveness/repentance then it's about as close to a guarantee as you can get IMO. Nobody ever said once you're saved you cease to sin and the second you do you're banned from Heaven.
    Exactly. We are on the same page.

    87 is making it sound like it is a sure deal he is going to Heaven, or anybody for that matter. It's not. You still have to live your life right.

  39. #289
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Neither is the afterlife, apparently.
    LOL...I know...sucks for some.

  40. #290
    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Heh. I've only attended a handful of services at a baptist church . . . . that's predominantly where my brothers and parents go though.

    I don't mean to make it sound easy, or really take the once saved always saved approach (although I can see where you might infer that) I just think if you give it your best shot, recognize that you'll screw-up, but try to live your life for Christ you've done your part. You can't necessarily work your way in or buy your way in . . . you just follow God's plan, stick with God's plan and you're in.
    fify

  41. #291
    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    I disagree...
    If you are right, there are scores of unfairly damned in most areas of the world for centuries after his crucifixion...
    maybe God will let you make the rules next time.....


    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Where?

    everywhere.....
    ask any jew if Jesus is the Messiah....

  42. #292
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    Exactly. We are on the same page.

    87 is making it sound like it is a sure deal he is going to Heaven, or anybody for that matter. It's not. You still have to live your life right.
    john 5: 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

    romans 10: 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

    acts 16: 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”


    i'm not saying it's easy......
    just look how difficult it is for the atheists on this board....
    but once you commit your life to God.....and you bow to His will.....He guides you on a path to righteousness......and eternal life in heaven....it's not something one can do on their own....

    one more for good measure...for spanky

    john 3: 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
    Last edited by 87sooner; February 1st, 2013 at 09:11 PM.

  43. #293
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    maybe God will let you make the rules next time.....

    maybe God will just change the rules again.

    everywhere.....
    ask any jew if Jesus is the Messiah....
    What if never posed the question?

    We have the security blanket of information these days.

    I refuse to believe that those who did not accept Christ, merely because they knew not of his existence, are damned. One can come to know Him through acts as Jesus stated in the Sermon on the Mount. (This does not apply to those that rebuke Him is where I agree with you)

  44. #294
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    maybe God will just change the rules again.


    What if never posed the question?

    We have the security blanket of information these days.

    I refuse to believe that those who did not accept Christ, merely because they knew not of his existence, are damned. One can come to know Him through acts as Jesus stated in the Sermon on the Mount. (This does not apply to those that rebuke Him is where I agree with you)
    87's idea of God is simply not a god worthy of being worshiped.

  45. #295
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    Why do so many people believe in god?

  46. #296

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by Nazgul View Post
    Why do so many people believe in god?
    Because they can't think for themselves. Other than that I have no ****ing clue.

  47. #297
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    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    Because they can't think for themselves. Other than that I have no ****ing clue.
    I kind of see it like this.

    I was born in Oklahoma. My folks both went to OU. I became an OU fan at a young age as I developed an interest in football.

    Had I been born in Texas and my folks had been graduates of Texas I would have been a Longhorn fan.

    The fact that I realize this makes me somewhat like being an atheist in religion. I realize the whole idea that my fandom is based on happenstance.

    87 was born in the USA where the predominant religion is Christendom. Had he been born in the middle east he would be a muslim. Had he been born in India more than likely he would be a Hindu. 87, however, isn't willing to admit this as he feels like somehow he would have been able to "see the light" and be a Christian had he been born elswhere.
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  48. #298
    Originally Posted by Yuck Fu View Post
    I kind of see it like this.

    I was born in Oklahoma. My folks both went to OU. I became an OU fan at a young age as I developed an interest in football.

    Had I been born in Texas and my folks had been graduates of Texas I would have been a Longhorn fan.

    The fact that I realize this makes me somewhat like being an atheist in religion. I realize the whole idea that my fandom is based on happenstance.

    87 was born in the USA where the predominant religion is Christendom. Had he been born in the middle east he would be a muslim. Had he been born in India more than likely he would be a Hindu. 87, however, isn't willing to admit this as he feels like somehow he would have been able to "see the light" and be a Christian had he been born elswhere.
    except i grew up in a family with no ties to any school.....and no interest in sports...
    i started watching football on my own....and immediately i was drawn to the beauty and excellence of ou football....

    similarly....my parents were catholic but stopped going when i was about 4 years old...
    i only attended church for family funerals...
    when i was 33....i started attending church and at about 40....when i switched to a baptist church.....was when i became "saved" and i really found the truth in God...

    i am definitely thankful i was born here in the us......i can't say what i'd believe today if i had not.......altho place of birth is not an excuse to believe a lie...

  49. #299
    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    Because they can't think for themselves. Other than that I have no ****ing clue.
    you are exactly right....you don't have a ****ing clue......
    you don't think for yourself....someone told you a lie and you believed it......

  50. #300

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    you are exactly right....you don't have a ****ing clue......
    you don't think for yourself....someone told you a lie and you believed it......
    No I don't believe in a book written by man.

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