My church hates the gays

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  1. #301
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    except i grew up in a family with no ties to any school.....and no interest in sports...
    i started watching football on my own....and immediately i was drawn to the beauty and excellence of ou football....

    similarly....my parents were catholic but stopped going when i was about 4 years old...
    i only attended church for family funerals...
    when i was 33....i started attending church and at about 40....when i switched to a baptist church.....was when i became "saved" and i really found the truth in God...

    i am definitely thankful i was born here in the us......i can't say what i'd believe today if i had not.......altho place of birth is not an excuse to believe a lie...
    I never knew that about your past, what caused you to go to church at 33-40 and what caused the change in you? Also if you don't mind how old are you now? I'm just curious, I'm 30 btw. I'm interested in your story if you're willing to tell it

  2. #302

    My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    No I don't believe in a book written by man.
    That makes it nearly impossible to learn anything. The only things you believe are those you directly experience.
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  3. #303
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    My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    No I don't believe in a book written by man.
    So you think the book has no historical context?

    Myself, I find it hard to believe that everything we see was just a random combustible act that evolved over millions of years. Everything fits perfectly.

  4. #304
    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    That makes it nearly impossible to learn anything. The only things you believe are those you directly experience.
    poor choice of words there on his part
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  5. #305
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    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    Because they can't think for themselves. Other than that I have no ****ing clue.
    Someone being a theist no more indicates an inability to think that being an atheist indicates an ability to think. There are plenty of sheeple within atheism who only believe that way because they thnk some atheist soundbites are smart or because they hate religion. A religious worldview is no less intelligent than an anti-religious worldview.

  6. #306
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    Originally Posted by Yuck Fu View Post
    I kind of see it like this.

    I was born in Oklahoma. My folks both went to OU. I became an OU fan at a young age as I developed an interest in football.

    Had I been born in Texas and my folks had been graduates of Texas I would have been a Longhorn fan.

    The fact that I realize this makes me somewhat like being an atheist in religion. I realize the whole idea that my fandom is based on happenstance.

    87 was born in the USA where the predominant religion is Christendom. Had he been born in the middle east he would be a muslim. Had he been born in India more than likely he would be a Hindu. 87, however, isn't willing to admit this as he feels like somehow he would have been able to "see the light" and be a Christian had he been born elswhere.
    My family is S.Baptist.

    Why am I agnostic?

  7. #307

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    poor choice of words there on his part
    You are right! My life doesn't revolve around a book written by man.

  8. #308

    My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    poor choice of words there on his part
    Sure. And he discounts it because it's written by men--but ignores that men write every book we have. It's a poorly thought out reason to not believe.

  9. #309

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    Sure. And he discounts it because it's written by men--but ignores that men write every book we have. It's a poorly thought out reason to not believe.
    Please reread my previous post

  10. #310

    My church hates the gays

    What is the role of the Christian Church?
    The role of the church is first and foremost to give glory to God and to praise His wonderful name. Christ gave the church the great commission in Matthew 28:
    Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
    Anything that inhibits the church from doing its job must be purged, and rejected, regardless what culture thinks about it.

    Hate the sin love the sinner?
    This is not found in the Bible. The Bible, for the Christian, is the Word of God that regulates everything in the life of the Christian. One cannot be a Christian and not believe in the Bible. By Christian, I mean somebody who trusts in Jesus Christ as the Savior, and who denies himself daily for the sake of Jesus. Hate the sin and love the sinner, was said by Saint Augustine. He said, “"With love for mankind and hatred of sins." Later Gandhi said, “Love the sinner, and hate the sin.”
    Although the theology of such sayings is muddy, the principle that it conveys to me is not acceptance of sinful behavior, but rather a call to minister and help people regardless on their situation.

    What is the Biblical stance on homosexuality?
    The Bible places homosexuality in the category of sin. Sinners who are not covered by the blood of Christ in the judgment day will be condemned to eternal punishment by a just and Holy God.
    Is Christianity exclusive?
    Yes. Truth by definition is exclusive. Tolerance of homosexuality is exclusive.

    Can somebody be turned away from believing in Christ, because somebody on the internet is intolerant, or doesn’t have tact?
    No. People turn away from Jesus because they love sin.
    Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?
    Sodom and Gomorrah in Biblical lore represent societies that have lost all fear of God, societies that rejected nothing (except God), societies that only wanted to please the desires of the flesh, societies that proudly accepted all kinds of evil behavior, not just homosexuality alone. The contrasts and anthropomorphisms used in Genesis 19 convey an old and simple message: a Holy God will save His people out of a wicked and sinful world, and he will justly punish sinners who reject God’s mercy.
    S&D was not destroyed only because of its openly accepted homosexual behavior, but because they had lost all reverence for God. They insisted on defiling the holy messengers of God, precisely because they sensed something holy and pure in them. A Sodomite in Biblical terms is someone who has lost all reverence of God, and wants to define anything holy.

    Why didn’t Jesus say anything about homosexuality?
    There is no need to preach against something universally believed to be wrong at the time. Jesus did not find a society in favor of homosexuality, so he felt no need to add to the already impressive amount of evidence in scripture that speaks of homosexuality as a sin condemnable by death. He also said nothing of pedophilia, but that doesn’t mean pedophilia is acceptable. Jesus said, “I came to fulfill the law.”

    Is the Bible quiet about homosexuality?
    No. Leviticus 18:22, 29; Genesis 18 and 19, Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6:9, Timothy 1:10, Jude 7

    Why can’t homosexual people be leaders in the Church?


    Why did someone have to die for our sins?
    Only in the Christian faith God is both just and merciful, without one of those canceling the other. On the cross, Jesus both displayed God’s mercy for sinners, and God’s justice on sin. Without Christ’s sacrifice it is impossible for anybody to have fellowship with God.
    Is God fair? Will Jews go to hell?
    God is always fair, just, and holy and always right. Any decree that he passes is right, holy, just, and fair. Anybody in the afterlife, who is found not covered by Christ’s payment of sin, will be sadly condemned to eternal torment. The Jews will have the least amount of gripe because God chose them in the beginning, instructed them in the ways of righteousness, performed miracles amongst them, made them a respectable nation, yet they rejected the Messiah because their hearts did not belong to God. God owes nobody mercy. Mercy by definition is not deserved.

    I don’t believe in books written by man, why should I?
    That’s a lie. We all believe in books written by humans, all the time, every day. We don’t believe in the Bible because we love sin more than God’s holiness.


    Thanks for reading,

    Kyle
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  11. #311

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by KyleOU View Post
    What is the role of the Christian Church?
    The role of the church is first and foremost to give glory to God and to praise His wonderful name. Christ gave the church the great commission in Matthew 28:
    Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
    Anything that inhibits the church from doing its job must be purged, and rejected, regardless what culture thinks about it.

    Hate the sin love the sinner?
    This is not found in the Bible. The Bible, for the Christian, is the Word of God that regulates everything in the life of the Christian. One cannot be a Christian and not believe in the Bible. By Christian, I mean somebody who trusts in Jesus Christ as the Savior, and who denies himself daily for the sake of Jesus. Hate the sin and love the sinner, was said by Saint Augustine. He said, “"With love for mankind and hatred of sins." Later Gandhi said, “Love the sinner, and hate the sin.”
    Although the theology of such sayings is muddy, the principle that it conveys to me is not acceptance of sinful behavior, but rather a call to minister and help people regardless on their situation.

    What is the Biblical stance on homosexuality?
    The Bible places homosexuality in the category of sin. Sinners who are not covered by the blood of Christ in the judgment day will be condemned to eternal punishment by a just and Holy God.
    Is Christianity exclusive?
    Yes. Truth by definition is exclusive. Tolerance of homosexuality is exclusive.

    Can somebody be turned away from believing in Christ, because somebody on the internet is intolerant, or doesn’t have tact?
    No. People turn away from Jesus because they love sin.
    Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?
    Sodom and Gomorrah in Biblical lore represent societies that have lost all fear of God, societies that rejected nothing (except God), societies that only wanted to please the desires of the flesh, societies that proudly accepted all kinds of evil behavior, not just homosexuality alone. The contrasts and anthropomorphisms used in Genesis 19 convey an old and simple message: a Holy God will save His people out of a wicked and sinful world, and he will justly punish sinners who reject God’s mercy.
    S&D was not destroyed only because of its openly accepted homosexual behavior, but because they had lost all reverence for God. They insisted on defiling the holy messengers of God, precisely because they sensed something holy and pure in them. A Sodomite in Biblical terms is someone who has lost all reverence of God, and wants to define anything holy.

    Why didn’t Jesus say anything about homosexuality?
    There is no need to preach against something universally believed to be wrong at the time. Jesus did not find a society in favor of homosexuality, so he felt no need to add to the already impressive amount of evidence in scripture that speaks of homosexuality as a sin condemnable by death. He also said nothing of pedophilia, but that doesn’t mean pedophilia is acceptable. Jesus said, “I came to fulfill the law.”

    Is the Bible quiet about homosexuality?
    No. Leviticus 18:22, 29; Genesis 18 and 19, Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6:9, Timothy 1:10, Jude 7

    Why can’t homosexual people be leaders in the Church?


    Why did someone have to die for our sins?
    Only in the Christian faith God is both just and merciful, without one of those canceling the other. On the cross, Jesus both displayed God’s mercy for sinners, and God’s justice on sin. Without Christ’s sacrifice it is impossible for anybody to have fellowship with God.
    Is God fair? Will Jews go to hell?
    God is always fair, just, and holy and always right. Any decree that he passes is right, holy, just, and fair. Anybody in the afterlife, who is found not covered by Christ’s payment of sin, will be sadly condemned to eternal torment. The Jews will have the least amount of gripe because God chose them in the beginning, instructed them in the ways of righteousness, performed miracles amongst them, made them a respectable nation, yet they rejected the Messiah because their hearts did not belong to God. God owes nobody mercy. Mercy by definition is not deserved.

    I don’t believe in books written by man, why should I?
    That’s a lie. We all believe in books written by humans, all the time, every day. We don’t believe in the Bible because we love sin more than God’s holiness.


    Thanks for reading,

    Kyle
    What does he say about incest and murder? Can't wait to hear the hypocrisy.

  12. #312

    My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    What does he say about incest and murder? Can't wait to hear the hypocrisy.
    1. If there is no God, then humanity is doing all this stuff, and evolution is a twisted process to make us hallucinate like this.

    2. If there is a God, then he must be just and merciful to allow you to talk to Him like this, and still give you a chance to repent of your sins. So, He's just, fair, and merciful towards men who have lost all reverence for God.

    One thing I don't understand, if God is not real, then why do some people spend so much time hating, and not-believing this imaginary being Christians believe in? Christians are fools for believing in an imaginary being, but what about those who spend all this energy trying to disprove the imaginary being?
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  13. #313

  14. #314
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    I never knew that about your past, what caused you to go to church at 33-40 and what caused the change in you? Also if you don't mind how old are you now? I'm just curious, I'm 30 btw. I'm interested in your story if you're willing to tell it

    i'm 48...
    my wife grew up catholic so she had (and still has) that ingrained feeling of guilt for not attending church.....even tho we only went to church when we visited her family.....
    when we had our first child.....my wife thought we should find a church.....after visiting all of the ones in our small town....we became members of the disciples of Christ christian church...
    i liked the church and learned a lot....but it was very small (30-40 regulars).......and after some turmoil in finding/hiring a new minister.....we ended up leaving....
    that's when we found 1st baptist in enid......and the pastor there really helped me comprehend Jesus' sacrifice and God's saving grace.....
    i accepted Christ as my Savior....was baptized.....and my life is now in God's hands.......whatever He asks.....i'll do....my life is no longer about what i want....
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  15. #315
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    Originally Posted by KyleOU View Post
    What is the role of the Christian Church?
    The role of the church is first and foremost to give glory to God and to praise His wonderful name. Christ gave the church the great commission in Matthew 28:
    Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
    Anything that inhibits the church from doing its job must be purged, and rejected, regardless what culture thinks about it.

    Hate the sin love the sinner?
    This is not found in the Bible. The Bible, for the Christian, is the Word of God that regulates everything in the life of the Christian. One cannot be a Christian and not believe in the Bible. By Christian, I mean somebody who trusts in Jesus Christ as the Savior, and who denies himself daily for the sake of Jesus. Hate the sin and love the sinner, was said by Saint Augustine. He said, “"With love for mankind and hatred of sins." Later Gandhi said, “Love the sinner, and hate the sin.”
    Although the theology of such sayings is muddy, the principle that it conveys to me is not acceptance of sinful behavior, but rather a call to minister and help people regardless on their situation.

    What is the Biblical stance on homosexuality?
    The Bible places homosexuality in the category of sin. Sinners who are not covered by the blood of Christ in the judgment day will be condemned to eternal punishment by a just and Holy God.
    Is Christianity exclusive?
    Yes. Truth by definition is exclusive. Tolerance of homosexuality is exclusive.

    Can somebody be turned away from believing in Christ, because somebody on the internet is intolerant, or doesn’t have tact?
    No. People turn away from Jesus because they love sin.
    Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?
    Sodom and Gomorrah in Biblical lore represent societies that have lost all fear of God, societies that rejected nothing (except God), societies that only wanted to please the desires of the flesh, societies that proudly accepted all kinds of evil behavior, not just homosexuality alone. The contrasts and anthropomorphisms used in Genesis 19 convey an old and simple message: a Holy God will save His people out of a wicked and sinful world, and he will justly punish sinners who reject God’s mercy.
    S&D was not destroyed only because of its openly accepted homosexual behavior, but because they had lost all reverence for God. They insisted on defiling the holy messengers of God, precisely because they sensed something holy and pure in them. A Sodomite in Biblical terms is someone who has lost all reverence of God, and wants to define anything holy.

    Why didn’t Jesus say anything about homosexuality?
    There is no need to preach against something universally believed to be wrong at the time. Jesus did not find a society in favor of homosexuality, so he felt no need to add to the already impressive amount of evidence in scripture that speaks of homosexuality as a sin condemnable by death. He also said nothing of pedophilia, but that doesn’t mean pedophilia is acceptable. Jesus said, “I came to fulfill the law.”

    Is the Bible quiet about homosexuality?
    No. Leviticus 18:22, 29; Genesis 18 and 19, Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6:9, Timothy 1:10, Jude 7

    Why can’t homosexual people be leaders in the Church?


    Why did someone have to die for our sins?
    Only in the Christian faith God is both just and merciful, without one of those canceling the other. On the cross, Jesus both displayed God’s mercy for sinners, and God’s justice on sin. Without Christ’s sacrifice it is impossible for anybody to have fellowship with God.
    Is God fair? Will Jews go to hell?
    God is always fair, just, and holy and always right. Any decree that he passes is right, holy, just, and fair. Anybody in the afterlife, who is found not covered by Christ’s payment of sin, will be sadly condemned to eternal torment. The Jews will have the least amount of gripe because God chose them in the beginning, instructed them in the ways of righteousness, performed miracles amongst them, made them a respectable nation, yet they rejected the Messiah because their hearts did not belong to God. God owes nobody mercy. Mercy by definition is not deserved.

    I don’t believe in books written by man, why should I?
    That’s a lie. We all believe in books written by humans, all the time, every day. We don’t believe in the Bible because we love sin more than God’s holiness.


    Thanks for reading,

    Kyle
    do you actually believe this? you say these things with authority, so i'm guessing you do. (sentence in bold)

  16. #316
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    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    do you actually believe this? you say these things with authority, so i'm guessing you do. (sentence in bold)
    What's hard to believe about that statement? Can it really be refuted?

  17. #317
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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    What's hard to believe about that statement? Can it really be refuted?
    sure, could you give me your definition of sin first?

  18. #318
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    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    sure, could you give me your definition of sin first?
    My definition doesn't matter . . . but I'll play.

    A simple answer is anything that breaks God's law, or some act that separates us from Him.

  19. #319
    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    sure, could you give me your definition of sin first?

    sin is disobedience....

  20. #320

    My church hates the gays

    What is sin?
    The Greek word for sin is “ēmarton” which means to miss the mark, in the same sense that an archer misses the mark he is trying to hit. So sin, is missing the mark of God’s perfect law. Anything short of God’s standard of perfection is sin.


    Do I believe that people turn away from Jesus because they love to sin?
    Yes. Romans chapter 1, and John chapter 1 tell us that people who reject Jesus do so because they love sin/darkness and do not want to give up any “control” of their lives.


    What is the remedy for sin?
    God sent Jesus to die for us. On the cross Jesus displayed God’s justice and God’s mercy, and whomever approaches the Lord with humility and faith, will be saved unto eternal life.

    How can I be saved?
    If you believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, died on the cross and was resurrected on the third day, then you will be saved.

    Thanks for reading,

    Kyle
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  21. #321
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    Are we talking agape, Eros, philia, or storge?
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  22. #322
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    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    My definition doesn't matter . . . but I'll play.

    A simple answer is anything that breaks God's law, or some act that separates us from Him.
    well, just as you probably don't give all the other religions or their laws a second thought in your daily life, athiest don't either: any/all religious laws are irrelevant to an athiest.

    so to say athiest love sin is absurd.
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  23. #323
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    Ah so, mutha fucka.

    Originally Posted by Nazgul View Post
    My family is S.Baptist.

    Why am I agnostic?
    I think it is a bit of a different dynamic to go from belief to unbelief (or in your case the agnostic position). In your situation you examined the evidence an came to your own conclusion. We do see some Americans go from one one religion to another, but it is relatively rare. Obviously there is always some denominational shifting among Christians.

    In general though you can look at a country and there is a predominant religion and in many cases a predominant denomination or sect.
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  24. #324
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    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    well, just as you probably don't give all the other religions or their laws a second thought in your daily life, athiest don't either: any/all religious laws are irrelevant to an athiest.

    so to say athiest love sin is absurd.
    If they're irrelevant why are you guys in this discussion?

    If you recognize it, understand what it is (I assume you believe somethings considered sinful are wrong) and still continue to participate . . . how is it absurd to consider that some form of love?

  25. #325
    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    well, just as you probably don't give all the other religions or their laws a second thought in your daily life, athiest don't either: any/all religious laws are irrelevant to an athiest.

    so to say athiest love sin is absurd.

    it's not absurd at all...
    as i said above....sin is disobedience....
    God asks that we love Him with all our heart.....all our soul....all our mind.....the only way to do that is to be obedient to Him....
    atheists love and cherish their "independent thinking" ......and even tho they say they believe God doesn't exist.....they have a serious hatred of Him....
    so continue believing "religious laws" are irrelevant to you.........and that God's laws "are second thought in your daily life".......but that is sin.....and you love it

    matthew 10: 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

  26. #326
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    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    You are right! My life doesn't revolve around a book written by man.

    do you believe the books written by scientists about evolution and such?

  27. #327
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    Ah so, mutha fucka.

    Originally Posted by KyleOU View Post

    2. If there is a God, then he must be just and merciful to allow you to talk to Him like this, and still give you a chance to repent of your sins. So, He's just, fair, and merciful towards men who have lost all reverence for God.

    One thing I don't understand, if God is not real, then why do some people spend so much time hating, and not-believing this imaginary being Christians believe in? Christians are fools for believing in an imaginary being, but what about those who spend all this energy trying to disprove the imaginary being?
    These points are easily deconstructed.

    It would appear that God is not just and merciful to people who "talk to him like this". If we reference the old testament in particular it is easy to see this is not true.
    If we look at the new testament we see that God gets them after they die.

    However, if God doesn't exist or if God is something other than the Judeochristian God then it makes sense because then God is not working under the constructs that you are designing for him with your particular belief system.

    To your second point. We can turn this around and ask why Christians spend so much energy hating and not believing in evolution. Why do guys like Ravi Zacharias spend so much time, money and energy disproving an imaginary origins theory?

    Atheists don't hate "god". They are frustrated by belief systems that they believe to be fanciful. This is compounded by the fact that Christians (and other religionists) are commanded by Holy Books to attempt to influence others toward their particular dogma. As a result, many atheists become dogmatic about atheism.

    Others are just like your lukewarm Christians. Couldn't care less what you believe.

  28. #328
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    Originally Posted by Yuck Fu View Post
    These points are easily deconstructed.

    It would appear that God is not just and merciful to people who "talk to him like this". If we reference the old testament in particular it is easy to see this is not true.
    If we look at the new testament we see that God gets them after they die.

    However, if God doesn't exist or if God is something other than the Judeochristian God then it makes sense because then God is not working under the constructs that you are designing for him with your particular belief system.

    To your second point. We can turn this around and ask why Christians spend so much energy hating and not believing in evolution. Why do guys like Ravi Zacharias spend so much time, money and energy disproving an imaginary origins theory?

    Atheists don't hate "god". They are frustrated by belief systems that they believe to be fanciful. This is compounded by the fact that Christians (and other religionists) are commanded by Holy Books to attempt to influence others toward their particular dogma. As a result, many atheists become dogmatic about atheism.

    Others are just like your lukewarm Christians. Couldn't care less what you believe.
    Your points are easily deconstructed as well...

    What parts of the Old or New Testament are you referencing? Per both the path to Heaven is not the path everyone is on, as a matter of fact it is the tougher, smaller path. Whole the books both stress accepting God and Jesus as imperative, they also make mention of the anger of God with the hypocrites that espouse God's greatness 1 day a week, but live however they want the other 6 days. I hate to tell you this, Heaven is not the "default" destination, you must earn your place there.

    There are going to people zealous on both sides, my only argument is why do we have the right to teach evolution, but not creationism? And if evolution is the answer, why has it stopped at us, are we perfect at this point? also, why is there still monkeys?

    Atheists don't hate God, at least in my opinion, it is hard to hate something that you don't believe exists...they do however appear to hate believers, again my opinion, by showing how intellectually superior they find themselves to be...all because they believe different books, written by man.

  29. #329
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    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    And if evolution is the answer, why has it stopped at us, are we perfect at this point? also, why is there still monkeys?
    No offense, but these two statements would indicate that you are not familiar with evolutionary theory. If we're going to characterize a contrary view, we should do so accurately.

  30. #330
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    Originally Posted by VUGear View Post
    No offense, but these two statements would indicate that you are not familiar with evolutionary theory. If we're going to characterize a contrary view, we should do so accurately.
    those two statements were hyperbole, and I am very familiar with evolutionary theory, as well as cross pollination, and several other fun types of theory, however...they are just a theory aren't they?

    From what I understand, the pinky toe will be gone in thousands of years now....that is our next step in evolutionary progress.

  31. #331
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    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post

    From what I understand, the pinky toe will be gone in thousands of years now....that is our next step in evolutionary progress.
    I bet some folks will be glad for that . . . I hate bumping mine on stuff.
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  32. #332
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    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    those two statements were hyperbole, and I am very familiar with evolutionary theory, as well as cross pollination, and several other fun types of theory, however...they are just a theory aren't they?

    From what I understand, the pinky toe will be gone in thousands of years now....that is our next step in evolutionary progress.
    Cross pollination is a theory?

  33. #333
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Cross pollination is a theory?
    well, you got me there...it just ties in with the topic of evolution in my mind. My personal belief is that the benefits/negatives of it are not yet proven over the long run...so some could see it as a theory

    So, we are only going to address the small points of my post, and not the parts that are more relatable to the topic?

  34. #334
    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    well, you got me there...it just ties in with the topic of evolution in my mind. My personal belief is that the benefits/negatives of it are not yet proven over the long run...so some could see it as a theory

    So, we are only going to address the small points of my post, and not the parts that are more relatable to the topic?
    You do understand that the rigors of a scientific theory are different than say my theory that Pat Robertson is really the devil; right?

  35. #335
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    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    Your points are easily deconstructed as well...

    What parts of the Old or New Testament are you referencing? Per both the path to Heaven is not the path everyone is on, as a matter of fact it is the tougher, smaller path. Whole the books both stress accepting God and Jesus as imperative, they also make mention of the anger of God with the hypocrites that espouse God's greatness 1 day a week, but live however they want the other 6 days. I hate to tell you this, Heaven is not the "default" destination, you must earn your place there.

    There are going to people zealous on both sides, my only argument is why do we have the right to teach evolution, but not creationism? And if evolution is the answer, why has it stopped at us, are we perfect at this point? also, why is there still monkeys?

    Atheists don't hate God, at least in my opinion, it is hard to hate something that you don't believe exists...they do however appear to hate believers, again my opinion, by showing how intellectually superior they find themselves to be...all because they believe different books, written by man.

    because creationism is neither theory nor fact; it is, at best, only an opinion. Since it explains nothing, it is scientifically useless.

    and by the way; the word "theory", in the context of science, does not imply uncertainty.
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    My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    well, just as you probably don't give all the other religions or their laws a second thought in your daily life, athiest don't either: any/all religious laws are irrelevant to an athiest.

    so to say athiest love sin is absurd.
    Christians love sin. Sin is fun. You or any other atheist aren't special.

  37. #337
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    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    because creationism is neither theory nor fact; it is, at best, only an opinion. Since it explains nothing, it is scientifically useless.

    and by the way; the word "theory", in the context of science, does not imply uncertainty.
    Where is this proof of evolution that you speak of?

    If we evolved, the species we evolved from no longer exists...so that is darn coincidental. Just like you don't believe in God or Jesus because they haven't been proven to you (scientifically), I do not believe in evolution, as it has not been proven to me.

    Awesome that science doesn't have to follow standard definitions either...

    Theory: A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be...: "Darwin's theory of evolution"

    By the way, believing in something that has not been proven to you is called "Faith", so why do people constantly criticize others for not having the same faith as them? Why is what you have faith in greater than what I have faith in?

  38. #338
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    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    If we evolved, the species we evolved from no longer exists...
    Does evolutionary theory say that?

  39. #339
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    Originally Posted by VUGear View Post
    Does evolutionary theory say that?

    Actually yes, it does.

    You should probably read up on it.

  40. #340
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    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    Actually yes, it does.

    You should probably read up on it.
    Sorry, I misread your statement. You were apparently referring to homo sapiens in particular and I was thinking of all types of species in general.

  41. #341
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    Originally Posted by VUGear View Post
    Sorry, I misread your statement. You were apparently referring to homo sapiens in particular and I was thinking of all types of species in general.
    no problem, and yes i was.

  42. #342
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    I have to believe that if in fact I am wrong and there is a god he ****ing hates all of us, we have done nothing but use and abuse the shit out of the precious planet he created and we are all a bunch of mean mother ****ers.

  43. #343
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    sean, have you found a new church yet?

    You can come sit with me at my church

  44. #344
    Originally Posted by SoonerBounce View Post
    sean, have you found a new church yet?

    You can come sit with me at my church
    watch out for Bounce, he likes to grab guys butt's

  45. #345
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    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    watch out for Bounce, he likes to grab guys butt's
    only when they are kneeling
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  46. #346
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    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    Where is this proof of evolution that you speak of?

    it is a fact that cellular life has been around for at least 1,8 billion years and that organized multicellular life is at least 800 million years old. it is a fact that major life forms now on earth were not at all represented in the past. there were no birds or mammals 250 million years ago. it is a fact that major life forms of the past are no longer living. there used to be dinosaurs and pithecanthropus, and there are none now. it is a factthat all living forms come from previous living forms. therefore, all present forms of life arose from ancestral forms that were different. birds arose from nonbirds and humans from nonhumans.



    If we evolved, the species we evolved from no longer exists...so that is darn coincidental. Just like you don't believe in God or Jesus because they haven't been proven to you (scientifically), I do not believe in evolution, as it has not been proven to me.

    it's not too surprising if you consider that it is believed about 99% of all the animals that once inhabited earth are now extinct.

    Awesome that science doesn't have to follow standard definitions either...



    Theory: A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be...: "Darwin's theory of evolution"

    well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. einstein's theory of gravitation replaced newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. and humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

    By the way, believing in something that has not been proven to you is called "Faith", so why do people constantly criticize others for not having the same faith as them? Why is what you have faith in greater than what I have faith in?
    in regards to your last question..i am not going down that road sorry
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  47. #347

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    in regards to your last question..i am not going down that road sorry
    Faith doesn't prove shit

  48. #348

    My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    Faith doesn't prove shit
    Neither does pizza.
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  49. #349
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    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    in regards to your last question..i am not going down that road sorry
    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    Faith doesn't prove shit

    Why are those facts? Because a book says they are?

    I understand there has been organisms here for a looong time...and we have fossils that show us what was here before us. Just saying it is a fact does not prove anything.

    But hey, lets have some fun!

    Dinosaurs are referred to in several Bible books. The book of Job describes two dinosaurs. One is described in chapter 40 starting at verse 15, and the other in chapter 41 starting at verse 1. We think you will agree that 1½ chapters about dinosaurs is a lot—since most people do not even realize that they are mentioned in the Bible.

    The Bible describes biogenesis (the development of living organisms from other living organisms) and the stability of each kind of living organism.

    1. Genesis 1:11,12
      Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

    1. Genesis 1:21
      So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

    1. Genesis 1:25
      And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
    The phrase “according to its kind” occurs repeatedly, stressing the reproductive integrity of each kind of animal and plant. Today we know this occurs because all of these reproductive systems are programmed by their genetic codes (Genesis was written long before Darwin came along)

    By the way, there is a ton of information in the Old Testament that was later proven correct by meteorology, astronomy, etc.

  50. #350
    If ya'll have any questions for me I will let Kyle answer for me. You, my friend, have the keys!

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