My church hates the gays

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  1. #351
    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    Why are those facts? Because a book says they are?

    I understand there has been organisms here for a looong time...and we have fossils that show us what was here before us. Just saying it is a fact does not prove anything.

    But hey, lets have some fun!

    Dinosaurs are referred to in several Bible books. The book of Job describes two dinosaurs. One is described in chapter 40 starting at verse 15, and the other in chapter 41 starting at verse 1. We think you will agree that 1½ chapters about dinosaurs is a lot—since most people do not even realize that they are mentioned in the Bible.
    That's one way to look at it.... "he moves his tail like a cedar" as well as the rest of the verses describes a lot of animals. Genesis also mentions a talking serpent. Since like bred with like, where are the talking serpents now? What about the talking donkey mentioned in Numbers?

  2. #352

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    Why are those facts? Because a book says they are?

    I understand there has been organisms here for a looong time...and we have fossils that show us what was here before us. Just saying it is a fact does not prove anything.

    But hey, lets have some fun!

    Dinosaurs are referred to in several Bible books. The book of Job describes two dinosaurs. One is described in chapter 40 starting at verse 15, and the other in chapter 41 starting at verse 1. We think you will agree that 1½ chapters about dinosaurs is a lot—since most people do not even realize that they are mentioned in the Bible.

    The Bible describes biogenesis (the development of living organisms from other living organisms) and the stability of each kind of living organism.

    1. Genesis 1:11,12
      Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

    1. Genesis 1:21
      So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

    1. Genesis 1:25
      And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
    The phrase “according to its kind” occurs repeatedly, stressing the reproductive integrity of each kind of animal and plant. Today we know this occurs because all of these reproductive systems are programmed by their genetic codes (Genesis was written long before Darwin came along)

    By the way, there is a ton of information in the Old Testament that was later proven correct by meteorology, astronomy, etc.
    You keep quoting a book written by crazies. That has numerous contradictions. Shouldn't the book be error free?

  3. #353
    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    You keep quoting a book written by crazies. That has numerous contradictions. Shouldn't the book be error free?
    to be fair, is any book wrote by man error free? not fully, there will always be errors in things we do b/c people are human and prone to err

  4. #354

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    to be fair, is any book wrote by man error free? not fully, there will always be errors in things we do b/c people are human and prone to err
    The bible is supposed to be god's word. It should be perfect, correct?

  5. #355
    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    The bible is supposed to be god's word. It should be perfect, correct?
    Some believe that. Others do not.

  6. #356
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    Why are those facts? Because a book says they are?

    I understand there has been organisms here for a looong time...and we have fossils that show us what was here before us. Just saying it is a fact does not prove anything.


    if you admit you understand and know about fossils and organisms being here before us, then i must assume you've seen evidence (proof) for these things.therefore, making it reasonable to consider these as facts.

    now, i 100% agree with you when you say "just saying it is fact does not prove anything"

  7. #357
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    Originally Posted by surus View Post
    Why are those facts? Because a book says they are?

    I understand there has been organisms here for a looong time...and we have fossils that show us what was here before us. Just saying it is a fact does not prove anything.


    if you admit you understand and know about fossils and organisms being here before us, then i must assume you've seen evidence (proof) for these things.therefore, making it reasonable to consider these as facts.

    now, i 100% agree with you when you say "just saying it is fact does not prove anything"
    So you know, I have never argued that we were the first ones here, just that I don't believe in evolution.

    Even the Bible admits that, as I mentioned before.

    And to the point of the talking snake, you do realize how long before any form of science that was written right?

  8. #358
    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    So you know, I have never argued that we were the first ones here, just that I don't believe in evolution.

    Even the Bible admits that, as I mentioned before.

    And to the point of the talking snake, you do realize how long before any form of science that was written right?
    So explain to me how you can believe the bible is right, but also wrong. And why you choose to accept the thoughts of nomadic sheep headers (that you admit got it wrong) over what has been shown over and over again to be what really happened.

    How do you know what they got right and what they got wrong?

  9. #359
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    Originally Posted by theskipster View Post
    So explain to me how you can believe the bible is right, but also wrong. And why you choose to accept the thoughts of nomadic sheep headers (that you admit got it wrong) over what has been shown over and over again to be what really happened.

    How do you know what they got right and what they got wrong?
    The Bible was not written by one person/man, many of the stories are the same and from different points of view. Much of what is in the Bible is verified historically, as well as science well before it was discovered.

    The rest of it is faith, believing in something that cannot, or has not been prove .

    It is no different than your faith in science (as it is the same thing), only I don't feel intellectually superior for it.

  10. #360
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    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    The Bible was not written by one person/man, many of the stories are the same and from different points of view. Much of what is in the Bible is verified historically, as well as science well before it was discovered.

    The rest of it is faith, believing in something that cannot, or has not been prove .

    It is no different than your faith in science (as it is the same thing), only I don't feel intellectually superior for it.
    Except faith in science is based upon the tangible, therefore bestowing a higher intellectual value.

    Philosophers have had centuries long debate, but if you saw a chair would you classify it's existence as fact or theory?

    Would your knowledge of chair construction lead you to a better understanding of its origin? Say how it was probably assembled, what materials were probably used, why it has four legs instead of one?
    This would be a theory based upon fact.

    If you just saw a chair for the very first time, (say you were a cro-magnon or something) would your belief of what it possibly was change the Fact that it is actually a chair, or make the possibility that it was somehow constructed from cotton candy, an intellectual position?

  11. #361
    Originally Posted by soonersmc View Post
    So you know, I have never argued that we were the first ones here, just that I don't believe in evolution.

    Even the Bible admits that, as I mentioned before.

    And to the point of the talking snake, you do realize how long before any form of science that was written right?
    So.....science scared away talking animals?

  12. #362
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    My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by brokebacksooner View Post
    So.....science scared away talking animals?
    We still have talking animals.

  13. #363
    Originally Posted by brokebacksooner View Post
    That's one way to look at it.... "he moves his tail like a cedar" as well as the rest of the verses describes a lot of animals. Genesis also mentions a talking serpent. Since like bred with like, where are the talking serpents now? What about the talking donkey mentioned in Numbers?
    you don't believe there was a talking serpent?

  14. #364

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    you don't believe there was a talking serpent?
    Lol

  15. #365
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    Originally Posted by SpankyNek View Post
    Except faith in science is based upon the tangible, therefore bestowing a higher intellectual value.

    Philosophers have had centuries long debate, but if you saw a chair would you classify it's existence as fact or theory?

    Would your knowledge of chair construction lead you to a better understanding of its origin? Say how it was probably assembled, what materials were probably used, why it has four legs instead of one?
    This would be a theory based upon fact.

    If you just saw a chair for the very first time, (say you were a cro-magnon or something) would your belief of what it possibly was change the Fact that it is actually a chair, or make the possibility that it was somehow constructed from cotton candy, an intellectual position?
    That is a lot of words. None of them really apply, but a lot of words nonetheless.

    I am not arguing that there is no such thing as science, I am saying I do not believe in evolution. All I have been told that my faith in religion is not as good as others faith in science. I have provided relevant Bible passages for things that have been brought up, you talked about a chair.

    I am looking for what "proof" it is that makes you so certain that I am wrong.

    And your right, I don't have to be a woodworking expert to know what a chair is, the fact that it is is what you should look at, not what it's called....

  16. #366

    My church hates the gays

    The inescapable fact is that however you section a chair, whether you take apart its legs, or whether you break it down into smaller pieces, or whether you look at the wood particles under a microscope, or whether you use an electron microscope to see the nanoparticles that shockingly are arranged in an orderly fashion, or whether you grind it up and make that chair a liquid and perform and kinds of chemical analysis, you will never find the explanation for the chair’s existence in itself regardless how much you know about the chair itself. You have to go outside the chair to find a reason for its existence. It is the same for everything in the universe and the universe itself. You have to go outside the universe to explain its existence.

    Even the most empiricist individual amongst us has a supernatural and unexplained starting point. The Big Bang theory, which many non-theists embrace, tells us that the current laws of physics and what we know about the natural world propose a huge and fundamental problem on how all the matter of the universe and the energy of the universe coexisted into a singularity, and how seconds after the explosion the universe did not collapse into itself. So even for the non-theist, the genesis is always supernatural, and requires faith in something we don’t understand and comprehend, but rather we only apprehend.

    You will be very hard pressed to find one empirical scientific fact about Darwinian evolution in the matter which it postulates about the origin of life. In fact, to this day Darwinian evolutionists have yet to provide a single scientific fact which shows how life originated, and how a species metamorphosed into another.

    To this day, the fossil record of the Cambrian explosion remains coldly silent about the needed proof that one species could metamorphose into another. The proponents of Darwinian evolution (mainly biologists) like to preach to us about how science has rejects the existence of God, yet the rest of us who do real science find it impossible to equate Darwinian evolution with the scientific method.

    The scientific method:
    Observe a natural phenomenon >> Ask questions how this may be >> Do research >> Construct a hypothesis >> Test hypothesis by experiments >> Analyze data and draw conclusions >> Report results and submit for peer review.

    To this day, the Darwinian evolutionists have yet to provide one empirical scientific fact that follows the scientific method. In fact many speculate that if Darwin knew how intricate, how purposeful, and how complicated a single cell is, he would have never believed in atheistic evolution.
    Darwinian evolutionists start from a biased position which a scientist should never do. You never look to fit data into your hypothesis; you construct your hypothesis around the data.

    Their starting position is metaphysical and they try to fit pseudo-science into it: There is no God/I want there not to be a God >>> what in nature supports that?

    I could go on and on in debunking this fairy tale for adults called Darwinian evolution, but ultimately I don’t care about spending too much energy on a lie. No facts alone have ever changed the hearts of men. Science can tell us a lot of things, but it cannot change the propensity of humanity for irrational behavior. Only God can change the hearts of people, and His realm of influence is best felt when our knees are bruised and bloody because the Christian is praying with the boldness that we have in Christ.

  17. #367

    My church hates the gays

    I was looking on twitter and found a link to a review for Thomas Nagel's new book. Thomas Nagel is an atheist and a professor at NYU. The orthodoxy of neo-Darwinisn is killing him. Why?

    Read this review:
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2012/1...d-life-natural

    Title of the Book: Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature Is Almost Certainly False.

    Science has produced no standard account of the origins of life.We have a superb understanding of how we get biological variety from simple, living starting points. We can thank Darwin for that. And we know that life in its simplest forms is built up out of inorganic stuff. But we don't have any account of how life springs forth from the supposed primordial soup. This is an explanatory gap we have no idea how to bridge.

  18. #368
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    Originally Posted by KyleOU View Post
    I was looking on twitter and found a link to a review for Thomas Nagel's new book. Thomas Nagel is an atheist and a professor at NYU. The orthodoxy of neo-Darwinisn is killing him. Why?

    Read this review:
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2012/1...d-life-natural
    Totally agree. We have no scientific fact upon the origin of life. This has nothing to do with evolution nor natural selection...hence the term "neo" Darwinism.

    Title of the Book: Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature Is Almost Certainly False.
    You are confusing the whole of evolution with the concept of biogenesis.
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  19. #369

    My church hates the gays

    Neo vs old differ only in the role natural selection plays in evolution. There is no confusion on my part regarding neo vs old. Both have a common starting point.

    Anyway, I don't expect to change anybody's mind and neither do I expect my mind to be changed by anybody, however it is quite telling when prominent members of a certain theory reject the theory itself.


    Ps: the hardest thing about evolution is that it has so many faces and so many names. Many use the term to mean change and adaptation, while the way Darwin used it was to compile into one term the theory that life arose by chance out of inorganic primordial soup, and natural selection is the process that explains all life and the variety within all living creatures.

  20. #370
    Originally Posted by KyleOU View Post
    I was looking on twitter and found a link to a review for Thomas Nagel's new book. Thomas Nagel is an atheist and a professor at NYU. The orthodoxy of neo-Darwinisn is killing him. Why?

    Read this review:
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2012/1...d-life-natural

    Title of the Book: Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature Is Almost Certainly False.

    We don't have a complete understanding of everything so therefore YWHW. Not Thor, Zeus or Ngai. Your critical thinking needs some help.

  21. #371
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    The funny thing about KyleOU is that he says atheists can't explain the origins of a chair but at the same time, he can't either without making up some story. Just face it...you don't know either. Your knowledge about god and the afterlife is exactly the same as mine.

  22. #372

    My church hates the gays

    Ok guys, we'll agree to disagree.

  23. #373
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    Originally Posted by KyleOU View Post
    Neo vs old differ only in the role natural selection plays in evolution. There is no confusion on my part regarding neo vs old. Both have a common starting point.

    Anyway, I don't expect to change anybody's mind and neither do I expect my mind to be changed by anybody, however it is quite telling when prominent members of a certain theory reject the theory itself.


    Ps: the hardest thing about evolution is that it has so many faces and so many names. Many use the term to mean change and adaptation, while the way Darwin used it was to compile into one term the theory that life arose by chance out of inorganic primordial soup, and natural selection is the process that explains all life and the variety within all living creatures.


    in both scholarly and popular literature you can frequently find references to "darwin's theory of evolution", as though it were a unitary entity. in reality, darwin's "theory" of evolution was a whole bundle of theories, and it is impossible to discuss darwin's evolutionary thought constructively if you don't distinguish its various components.

  24. #374
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    Originally Posted by azwe View Post
    The funny thing about KyleOU is that he says atheists can't explain the origins of a chair but at the same time, he can't either without making up some story. Just face it...you don't know either. Your knowledge about god and the afterlife is exactly the same as mine.
    The knowledge may be equal, but that's where faith kicks in . . .

  25. #375
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    to be fair, is any book wrote by man error free? not fully, there will always be errors in things we do b/c people are human and prone to err
    except that all scripture is God breathed........

  26. #376
    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    You keep quoting a book written by crazies. That has numerous contradictions. Shouldn't the book be error free?

    we've covered this many times......there are no contradictions.....
    don't believe your atheist websites/blogs....

  27. #377
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    except that all scripture is God breathed........
    If YWYW is true and the bible is YWYW breathed, why do you willingly worship a horrible ****? Why do you worship a god who is willing to kill your children and take away everything you have just for a bet?

  28. #378
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    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    we've covered this many times......there are no contradictions.....
    don't believe your atheist websites/blogs....
    Here is a simple exercise:

    Dueteronomy 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

    Here we learn that Israel is a special people to God above all the people that are upon the face of the earth.

    Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

    Here we learn that God is impartial in regards to different persons.

    Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    Here we learn that God does not change.

    1 and 2 cannot both be true especially if 3 is true.
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  29. #379
    Originally Posted by Yuck Fu View Post
    Here is a simple exercise:

    Dueteronomy 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

    Here we learn that Israel is a special people to God above all the people that are upon the face of the earth.

    Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

    Here we learn that God is impartial in regards to different persons.

    Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    Here we learn that God does not change.

    1 and 2 cannot both be true especially if 3 is true.
    like i said.....no contradictions...
    God made a covenant with abraham...
    God made a covenant with noah....
    God made a covenant with everyone thru Jesus....
    God never changed...only His covenants changed....

    but you're welcome to try to explain how God changed....
    take your time.....i'm sure you will have to google as many atheist websites as you can find.....to try to explain this.....

  30. #380
    Originally Posted by theskipster View Post
    If YWYW is true and the bible is YWYW breathed, why do you willingly worship a horrible ****? Why do you worship a god who is willing to kill your children and take away everything you have just for a bet?
    God created me and my children......we are His to do whatever He chooses.....

    but wrt job.....job was rewarded for his faith

    God is not a horrible ****.....you are....you have a choice....and you choose evil/satan.....you will receive your due.....

  31. #381

    Re: My church hates the gays

    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    God created me and my children......we are His to do whatever He chooses.....

    but wrt job.....job was rewarded for his faith

    God is not a horrible ****.....you are....you have a choice....and you choose evil/satan.....you will receive your due.....
    So what did he choose to do?

  32. #382
    Originally Posted by 87sooner View Post
    God created me and my children......we are His to do whatever He chooses.....

    but wrt job.....job was rewarded for his faith

    God is not a horrible ****.....you are....you have a choice....and you choose evil/satan.....you will receive your due.....
    Oh I see. So you don't have any problem with your God killing your kids for a bet. I have a problem with that. But it seems you don't.

    And yes in your paradigm I choose satan over YWHW. Which one gave us the ability to think and which one punishes us for thinking?

    And Job was rewarded?. How? With dead children? Great reward.

  33. #383
    Originally Posted by theskipster View Post
    Oh I see. So you don't have any problem with your God killing your kids for a bet. I have a problem with that. But it seems you don't.
    have you read job? or do you just believe what your atheist websites tell you?

    Originally Posted by theskipster View Post
    And yes in your paradigm I choose satan over YWHW. Which one gave us the ability to think and which one punishes us for thinking?
    God doesn't punish us for thinking....He punishes us for sinning.....He also forgives us for sinning......

    Originally Posted by theskipster View Post
    And Job was rewarded?. How? With dead children? Great reward.
    yes...he was rewarded .....on earth and in heaven....

    btw.....do you believe God doesn't exist....or do you just hate Him?
    also....do you believe the bible is God's word and is true?
    because some of you atheists seem to believe the parts you think make God look bad.....but you think everything else is a myth.....

  34. #384
    Originally Posted by Sooner 4 Life View Post
    So what did he choose to do?
    he has chosen to hate/reject God...
    you are either with God....or with satan....

  35. #385
    Exegesis is hard for Christians let alone non Christians. There are absolutely no contradictions in the Bible. I am going to leave it at that.

  36. #386
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    Originally Posted by KyleOU View Post
    Exegesis is hard for Christians let alone non Christians. There are absolutely no contradictions in the Bible. I am going to leave it at that.
    I had this awesome idea where I was gonna quote this and one of your other posts (the one that implied you weren't gonna post in this thread anymore) and make some quippy zinger about how you contradicted yourself in a hilarious, meta way.

    Then I realized you never said you were gonna stop posting in this thread.

    #nonbelieverfail

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