FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

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  1. #51
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    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    I have never gotten pulled over for driving while black or jaywalking while brown. Can't say the same for a lot of minorities.
    You also have never gotten elected president (twice) just for being white.

  2. #52
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    Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
    You also have never gotten elected president (twice) just for being half white.
    FIFY
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  3. #53
    Originally Posted by Yuck Fu View Post
    I worked at OU in the mid 2000s. I lived in Noble which is basically an all white town. I had several black friends come over to my house fairly frequently. Virtually every single one of them was pulled over by the Noble police on Etowah road on the way to my house after they pulled off of highway 77.

    It was obviously racial profiling. I guess the police didn't think black people belonged in Noble.

    This seems a little dramatic. I don't think I believe it in the way it's being presented.

    How many friends? How many times?

    Are you saying every black person that drives to Noble is pulled over every time?

  4. #54
    Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    This seems a little dramatic. I don't think I believe it in the way it's being presented.

    How many friends? How many times?

    Are you saying every black person that drives to Noble is pulled over every time?
    every black person, every time...I'm a cop in Noble and that's how I perform my job

    'murica
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  5. #55
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    Originally Posted by Yuck Fu View Post
    I worked at OU in the mid 2000s. I lived in Noble which is basically an all white town. I had several black friends come over to my house fairly frequently. Virtually every single one of them was pulled over by the Noble police on Etowah road on the way to my house after they pulled off of highway 77.

    It was obviously racial profiling. I guess the police didn't think black people belonged in Noble.

    You are the same guy who thinks "getting out of your car" = "attacking a black teen because you are a racist". Your dubious anecdotes, conclusions, and guesses have been filed away in their proper place: the trash bin.
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  6. #56
    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    every black person, every time...I'm a cop in Noble and that's how I perform my job

    'murica
    It's a pretty heavy accusation saying the Noble police department is racially profiling. I was hoping to get more details.

  7. #57

    Re: FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    Once again though, are there studies comparing Jamal and Bubba? My point is that there are preconceived opinions that accompany names--and it's not exclusive to race. I'm not arguing that Greg doesn't have a better shot than Jamal--I'm saying Greg also has a better shot than Bubba. I'd also like to see comparisons between Jamal and Bubba.

    You're reading things that I'm not typing.

    Take it a step further--the study is alleging racial discrimination in the labor market. Doing so based on names is an inherently flawed model. If you want to do that, have two guys both with generic names apply for the same job, the only difference being the check mark on the race line. That's a more valid racial flag than names--b/c there is a psychological component to names that I'm addressing.
    I give up, cub. Your refusal to accept fact because some random scenario isn't covered is extremely frustrating. This is about black name v white names plain and simple. You saying "THEY DIDNT TEST BILLY BOB" proves nothing and distracts from a serious issue in America.

    The least you can do is read the study and refute it, but you won't even do that. You just bristles that they took standard names from each ethnicity and didn't test the extremes. Your indignation is merely entertaining at this point and you should be disappointed in yourself for the inability to admit that a study you disagree with may be right.

    I backed up my statement with a peer reviewed very well respected and ground breaking study, and you simply moved the line. At the very least you can admit you are wrong and that their is evidence that suggests a racial bias with regards to black names v. white names, but instead you just shift and move further away and throw more gorilla dust. It doesn't make you less of a conservative to accept a study and recongize that it may have a point, despite the fact that is demonstrated a different world than the one you see. Unless you have something to back up what you are hypothesizing(and presenting as fact), I feel like there is no more point in discussing anything more on this issue with you.

    It would appear that the final rational conservative has fallen. Good night, thunder dome and good luck.
    Last edited by OnlyOneOklahoma; February 7th, 2013 at 10:19 PM.

  8. #58
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    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post

    It would appear that the final rational conservative has fallen. Good night, thunder dome and good luck.

    Wow. I'm actually a little offended. I didn't think I was that irrational of a conservative.

  9. #59

    Re: FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    Wow. I'm actually a little offended. I didn't think I was that irrational of a conservative.
    I forgot about you Bob, you are a fine guy.
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  10. #60
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    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    I forgot about you Bob, you are a fine guy.
    Heh

  11. #61
    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    I give up, cub. Your refusal to accept fact because some random scenario isn't covered is extremely frustrating. This is about black name v white names plain and simple. You saying "THEY DIDNT TEST BILLY BOB" proves nothing and distracts from a serious issue in America.

    The least you can do is read the study and refute it, but you won't even do that. You just bristles that they took standard names from each ethnicity and didn't test the extremes. Your indignation is merely entertaining at this point and you should be disappointed in yourself for the inability to admit that a study you disagree with may be right.

    I backed up my statement with a peer reviewed very well respected and ground breaking study, and you simply moved the line. At the very least you can admit you are wrong and that their is evidence that suggests a racial bias with regards to black names v. white names, but instead you just shift and move further away and throw more gorilla dust. It doesn't make you less of a conservative to accept a study and recongize that it may have a point, despite the fact that is demonstrated a different world than the one you see. Unless you have something to back up what you are hypothesizing(and presenting as fact), I feel like there is no more point in discussing anything more on this issue with you.

    It would appear that the final rational conservative has fallen. Good night, thunder dome and good luck.
    You don't even understand where the flaw in the study is do you? Your study is asserting that the aversion is based on race--I'm saying that there are certain name types that cause an aversion or hesitancy. I haven't disagreed with the findings of the study--simply the conclusions drawn from the findings. Do you understand the difference there? If the aversion is to minority applicants, then a racial check would show the same numbers, wouldn't it? If what I'm saying is true, the problem is different than what the study is trying to say it is. If the problem is not race, and is instead certain types of names (Bubba, Jamal, etc) then the solution to the problem is vastly different. If what I'm asserting is true (and it is possible it is, I don't know if it is b/c I don't have the time to do the study) then the problem isn't race--it's the perception that comes w/certain names.

    Think about it this way--if your conclusions are incorrect and instead the problem isn't race, but name type, then the solution to the problem you will present will not solve anything. This is one of the most frustrating things for me in today's world. Even intelligent people don't understand how to truly think critically. People see a study, look at the group that did the study, and then either blindly accept or blindly dismiss the content of the study, b/c people simply do not understand research methods, threats to validity or how to draw unbiased, accurate conclusions from research w/o putting our own spin and making assumptions that fit what we want to see.

    Here are the facts--the study showed that certain names (ethnic) are less likely to get call backs than generic names are. W/o a study that specifically looks at other 'fringe' names, our data from the study is incomplete. We look at Rob, Rick, Bob, Joe. We look at Jamal, Lequan, Tre, De'on. We look at Bubba, Bobby Joe, Carl Lee and Buddy. We look at Chen, Huang, Yan, Xiang and Gao. We'd then do another group across all of these using women's names. Ideally, we'd have another group that has androgynous names and the M/F mark checked. This gives us a variance across different ethnic and gender names that we can really compare. Then we further secure the study by submitting applications and resumes with generic names, doing an equal number of applications as we did before with the ethnic names, but checking racial boxes on each form. Now we have a study that can show us something that we can use. As it is, what you've cited shows us nothing beyond a certain group of ethnic names is less likely to receive call backs than a group of generic names. Without further data, it shows us nothing beyond 1 group of 'outside the norm' names gets a poorer response than generic names--it doesn't show us racism. Does it show a possibility of it? Sure. It doesn't take us far enough though to effectively conclude that it is racially motivated. Leaps are being made beyond what the study actually shows. I swear, the most important thing for people to learn is research methodology and how to draw conclusions from it and hardly anyone is learning it.
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  12. #62
    I'm unconvinced by your wall of words.

  13. #63
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    BTw, 100% OP is troll. Purpose is to troll the stereotype Okie bigot who thinks black people have it too easy.

  14. #64
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    Forget white privilege. The way its going brown privilege is going to soon displace someone to third place.

    Hell Compton has allready fallen.

  15. #65

    FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

    Originally Posted by Aldebaran View Post
    I'm unconvinced by your wall of words.
    Same. I hate to say it cub, I see your point kid of, but I don't think that a lack of testing for Chinese names or more country type names invalidates a study on how hiring managers respond to a resume with a more normal black name versus one with a more normal white name.

    The study set out to test a hypothesis that when given a résumé with a white name or a black name with two qualified candidate, who is more likely to get called. It found that white names are more likely to get called, pretty straightforward.

    And if you are saying that the researchers did not draw a correct conclusion based on their findings, I don't know what to tell you. I haven't been abstracting any other their findings and applying it to anything else. The literally found that resumes with "white" names get 50% more callbacks than ones with "black" names. No amount of word vomit can change that or confuse what they plain and simple state.

  16. #66
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    Maybe the "white" names are easier to pronounce . . . .
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  17. #67
    I don't know when all the crazy name business really started....but all the brothers I grew up with, served with and have worked with all had what I consider normal names...not "******" names. John, Kevin, Larry, Sean, Greg, Steve, Bill, Jerry, Robert, Frank....and the list goes on....whoever it is that considers these new fangled names "African" has never spent any time in Africa...

  18. #68
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    FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

    Sans delving into a healthcare debate... Last Saturday, I had to go to a minor emergency clinic. The waiting room was cram packed (SRO for a while, actually), and I noticed at one point that besides me, there was one other white woman in the room, and everyone else in the waiting room was black - a few of old people, several parents & children, a few adults around my age. I have to admit that I was surprised when the nurse called "Jequita" and the other white woman got up. I don't remember any of the other names called while I waited for an hour & a half, so everyone else in the room could have been name Michael and Michelle and Joe and Megan and Caleb, I don't know. Does that make me a racist? Was I just playing percentages? Was anyone else surprised? I, in a split second, made an unconscious assumption about a person's race based on a name.

  19. #69
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    Originally Posted by McRib View Post
    Sans delving into a healthcare debate... Last Saturday, I had to go to a minor emergency clinic. The waiting room was cram packed (SRO for a while, actually), and I noticed at one point that besides me, there was one other white woman in the room, and everyone else in the waiting room was black - a few of old people, several parents & children, a few adults around my age. I have to admit that I was surprised when the nurse called "Jequita" and the other white woman got up. I don't remember any of the other names called while I waited for an hour & a half, so everyone else in the room could have been name Michael and Michelle and Joe and Megan and Caleb, I don't know. Does that make me a racist? Was I just playing percentages? Was anyone else surprised? I, in a split second, made an unconscious assumption about a person's race based on a name.
    Why were you in the colored waiting room? You know white people have a special entrance to the emergency room, no waiting and a concierge to take care of all your needs.
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    Last edited by smot poker; February 8th, 2013 at 09:23 AM.

  20. #70
    Originally Posted by SoonerArtillery View Post
    what I consider normal names...not "******" names. John, Kevin, Larry, Sean, Greg, Steve, Bill, Jerry, Robert, Frank....and the list goes on....
    ...he spake without irony.
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  21. #71

    FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    Same. I hate to say it cub, I see your point kid of, but I don't think that a lack of testing for Chinese names or more country type names invalidates a study on how hiring managers respond to a resume with a more normal black name versus one with a more normal white name.

    The study set out to test a hypothesis that when given a résumé with a white name or a black name with two qualified candidate, who is more likely to get called. It found that white names are more likely to get called, pretty straightforward.

    And if you are saying that the researchers did not draw a correct conclusion based on their findings, I don't know what to tell you. I haven't been abstracting any other their findings and applying it to anything else. The literally found that resumes with "white" names get 50% more callbacks than ones with "black" names. No amount of word vomit can change that or confuse what they plain and simple state.
    I explain research methods and blinds and how researchers erroneously draw unfounded conclusions and you call it word vomit. I can see this will go nowhere because you already know what you know.

    Last time. The study showed that generic names are more likely to get called back than ethnic names are. That's it. It doesn't prove racism, no matter how badly you want it to. The study is incomplete if that's what you're trying to prove.

  22. #72
    Originally Posted by Mutater Huag View Post
    ...he spake without irony.
    EYEKNOUGHRYTE!


    Here is a little quiz for you....here are some names of people I work with....tell me what color their skin is: George, Chester, Ralph, Tony, Johnny and Al......GO!

  23. #73
    Originally Posted by Sooner Bob View Post
    What is an "African" sounding name?
    90% of the time for a girl it must end with the letter "a".

  24. #74
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    FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

    Originally Posted by SoonerArtillery View Post
    EYEKNOUGHRYTE!


    Here is a little quiz for you....here are some names of people I work with....tell me what color their skin is: George, Chester, Ralph, Tony, Johnny and Al......GO!
    Pleeeeeease tell me Chester is a child molester. Or a cheetah.

  25. #75
    Cool story, bro. The thing about it is, your individual work environment isn't statistically meaningful. People often draw on personal experience in the face of massive empirical data, because the bias of personal experience is a siren song to the ignorant.
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  26. #76

    FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

    Originally Posted by Aldebaran View Post
    Cool story, bro. The thing about it is, your individual work environment isn't statistically meaninful. People often draw on personal experience in the face of massive empirical data, because the bias of personal experience is a siren song to the ignorant.
    I love it when this happens. Thanks for making my day a little brighter.
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  27. #77

    Re: FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

    Cub, I try not to troll you too hard (and have turned it off 100% in this thread), because I like you. But you are mistaken here. The study specifically demonstrates that racial discrimination is still a prominent feature in the labor market. They even specify in the abstract that they "[found] little evidence that [the] results are driven by employers inferring something other than race, such as social class."

    I like you and respect you a ton, but this is the worst case of "Republicans, your facts are interpreted as lies by my brain," I have seen in a pretty smart dude. You may very well be right, but without a vetted and published study demonstrating your hypothesis, you just come off as a frustrated white male.

    It isn't an indictment on anything you hold dear to admit that there is still a racial prejudice in America.

  28. #78
    Originally Posted by SoonerArtillery View Post
    I don't know when all the crazy name business really started....but all the brothers I grew up with, served with and have worked with all had what I consider normal names...not "******" names. John, Kevin, Larry, Sean, Greg, Steve, Bill, Jerry, Robert, Frank....and the list goes on....whoever it is that considers these new fangled names "African" has never spent any time in Africa...
    It's not race. It's culture.

  29. #79
    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    It isn't an indictment on anything you hold dear to admit that there is still a racial prejudice in America.
    Have you ever lived someplace where you were a minority?

  30. #80

    FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

    As I've said, I'm not saying there isn't. I am saying the study you cited does not show that--the research is incomplete. The reason it's important is because of the solutions to the problem--whatever that is. Do you understand that if they had expanded the study to generic names with white and black checked, the results could have been dif? It's imperative that we don't draw conclusions from incomplete research, or our solutions are flawed.

    The study specifically demonstrates that racial discrimination is still a prominent feature in the labor market.

    This is what you said the research shows. It does not. It shows cultural discrimination. We don't even know if it's unique to black culture, because the data is incomplete. Until we know if it's actually racial (check marks) or black culture, or all perceived 'lower cultures' (country but not Asian) we cannot begin to address and solve what is happening.

  31. #81

    FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

    Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    It's not race. It's culture.
    This is what I suspect. Certain names (ethnic, country, etc) bring a negative with them because of implied culture.

  32. #82
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    Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    This seems a little dramatic. I don't think I believe it in the way it's being presented.

    How many friends? How many times?

    Are you saying every black person that drives to Noble is pulled over every time?
    Let's see.

    I had about 5 people who came to my house on one or more occasions. 4 of the 5 got pulled over at over at some point in their trips to my house.

    Again, they ONLY got pulled over after they left the highway and started going toward the neighborhood areas. This never happened to the white people who came to my house.

    On one occasion I had a guy come up from Texas who was going to look for a place to stay for his family. He left work at midnight in Texas and called me at about 5:30 in the morning saying he had been pulled over while turning into my neighborhood. I had to walk down there and tell the cop that he was my guest. It was pretty damned embarrassing.

  33. #83
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    Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
    You are the same guy who thinks "getting out of your car" = "attacking a black teen because you are a racist". Your dubious anecdotes, conclusions, and guesses have been filed away in their proper place: the trash bin.
    Ah yes, the beady eyed white devil attacks. LOL.

  34. #84

    FEB 4 BHM Overcooming White Privilege

    Originally Posted by Yuck Fu View Post
    Let's see.

    I had about 5 people who came to my house on one or more occasions. 4 of the 5 got pulled over at over at some point in their trips to my house.

    Again, they ONLY got pulled over after they left the highway and started going toward the neighborhood areas. This never happened to the white people who came to my house.

    On one occasion I had a guy come up from Texas who was going to look for a place to stay for his family. He left work at midnight in Texas and called me at about 5:30 in the morning saying he had been pulled over while turning into my neighborhood. I had to walk down there and tell the cop that he was my guest. It was pretty damned embarrassing.
    I'm thinking anyone coming to your house was of questionable character.

  35. #85
    Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    It's a pretty heavy accusation saying the Noble police department is racially profiling. I was hoping to get more details.
    my post wasn't serious, just going with the flow of this thread...I don't really know anything about these accusations and don't know anyone who has experienced such a thing in Noble

    could it be true, sure

  36. #86
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    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    I'm thinking anyone coming to your house was of questionable character.
    Only the black ones, the white ones managed to slip by the cops. One of them was a young fellow who the cops recognized after they pulled him over. They asked him for his autograph.

  37. #87
    Originally Posted by Yuck Fu View Post
    Only the black ones, the white ones managed to slip by the cops. One of them was a young fellow who the cops recognized after they pulled him over. They asked him for his autograph.
    I hate signing speeding tickets.

  38. #88
    Originally Posted by SoonerArtillery View Post
    EYEKNOUGHRYTE!


    Here is a little quiz for you....here are some names of people I work with....tell me what color their skin is: George, Chester, Ralph, Tony, Johnny and Al......GO!
    ...he continued, desiring only to emphasize his amusing lack of self-awareness.

    But please humor him: Yes, yes! If only everyone would have nice, English, what-he-considers-normal-but-not-"******" names!
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  39. #89
    Originally Posted by oucub23 View Post
    This is what I suspect. Certain names (ethnic, country, etc) bring a negative with them because of implied culture.
    Indeed, no one - scholar or no - may ever deduce if the discrimination is racial or simply due to the implied ethnicity and the inextricable culture thereof.

  40. #90
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    If you want to get pulled over be a white guy on or near MLK Blvd in any city after midnight.

  41. #91

  42. #92
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    Originally Posted by EufaulaSooner View Post
    They just want everyone to have a fair chance. The white kids have parents at home to help, why do they need tutors? /s

  43. #93
    Originally Posted by EufaulaSooner View Post
    I understand and agree with his motives, but he did it the wrong way. I think he is trying to have young black kids see black people in a greater light. I could be wrong though. He should have asked people in the black community to come tutor black students instead of telling white people they couldnt sign up.
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  44. #94
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    Originally Posted by bruthaman View Post
    I understand and agree with his motives, but he did it the wrong way. I think he is trying to have young black kids see black people in a greater light. I could be wrong though. He should have asked people in the black community to come tutor black students instead of telling white people they couldnt sign up.
    Or he could just stop classifying people as "black" or "white" and treat them all the same.

  45. #95
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    Originally Posted by Mutater Huag View Post
    Indeed, no one - scholar or no - may ever deduce if the discrimination is racial or simply due to the implied ethnicity and the inextricable culture thereof.
    Mutator Haug thinks shit culture is for brown people. They are inextricable!

  46. #96
    Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
    Or he could just stop classifying people as "black" or "white" and treat them all the same.
    but then how we will we get rid of the oppressionist white society, the privileged whites?

  47. #97
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    Originally Posted by greensooner View Post
    but then how we will we get rid of the oppressionist white society, the privileged whites?
    Good point. I think we should mandate real racism to fight imaginary racism. I am progressive like that. The government forcing people to practice racism is progress folks.
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  48. #98
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    Originally Posted by lokifz1 View Post

    All those Uncle Thomas white guilt idiots shucking and jiving for their race baiting poverty pimp masters is hilarious.
    A thousand times this. It's hilarious from one angle but troubling from another.

    Successful African-Americans didn't get successful by badgering ****** into submission; no - they shunned or simply never acknowledged any notion of "White Privilege", a decision which enables their success.

    Did they run into hurdles? Had to exert more energy & patience than a similarly-educated white person to "break through"? No doubt. But they proved to fellow African-Americans that it can happen, it's not some miracle. And they also prove to whites that they can compete in the business world. And those two things are what's shrinking White/African-American racism (not guilt-trips or mandatory appeasements). The people most responsible for shrinking racism are the ones who shun these politically-correct ideals and just get after it.

    Yes, we still have work to do but "White Privilege" is a perceived symptom, not an issue we can directly attack. Describing "White Privilege" as a call to action for whites OR African-Americans is ridiculous.

    Originally Posted by OnlyOneOklahoma View Post
    It takes a real **** to think that being a white male doesn't kick ass.
    I realize trolling is your schtick, but the successful African-American men and women I know would be really offended to hear you say that. Sounds very racist. They're kicking ass and they're not white. And the very idea of "White Privilege" would probably offend them too.

  49. #99
    Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
    Mutator Haug thinks shit culture is for brown people. They are inextricable!
    This man who calls himself Sancho is a simpleton.
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  50. #100
    Originally Posted by Morningwood View Post
    A thousand times this. It's hilarious from one angle but troubling from another.

    Successful African-Americans didn't get successful by badgering ****** into submission; no - they shunned or simply never acknowledged any notion of "White Privilege", a decision which enables their success.

    Did they run into hurdles? Had to exert more energy & patience than a similarly-educated white person to "break through"? No doubt. But they proved to fellow African-Americans that it can happen, it's not some miracle. And they also prove to whites that they can compete in the business world. And those two things are what's shrinking White/African-American racism (not guilt-trips or mandatory appeasements). The people most responsible for shrinking racism are the ones who shun these politically-correct ideals and just get after it.

    Yes, we still have work to do but "White Privilege" is a perceived symptom, not an issue we can directly attack. Describing "White Privilege" as a call to action for whites OR African-Americans is ridiculous.



    I realize trolling is your schtick, but the successful African-American men and women I know would be really offended to hear you say that. Sounds very racist. They're kicking ass and they're not white. And the very idea of "White Privilege" would probably offend them too.
    We proved a long time ago that we could be successful in the business world, but those hurdles you speak of burned everything down. White privilege is not a preceived symptom, its real. It would be stupid for a brutha or sista to not ackowledge to themselves that it exist and find out ways to overcome it. That in itself is pathetic, but thats what violence gets you. You get to make the rules, write the history and teach it the way you want.

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