FWIW, last I checked, the guy before the guy you're referencing was a minority too & he did pretty well.Originally Posted by OUrage
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FWIW, last I checked, the guy before the guy you're referencing was a minority too & he did pretty well.
2 users like Salt City Sooner's post: jmizzy4ou, srburkhart
I don't know if it's a matter of right and wrong. But you have a lot of these black kids growing up without fathers. It's just the way of the world. And it matters to some of the mothers. I don't know why it's immediately racist. A black woman wants a strong black role model for her kid. No biggie.
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same people probably think its ignorant/racist for black people to go to black churches, asians to hang out at asian community centers, etc. And also no one is saying that its ALL on skin color ... just a small factor ... but we've lost a lot of coin flip decisions lately and if that small factor can lean our way, that would be nice.
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Obviously it would be great if we had a so called "colorblind" society. But culturally we aren't there yet. I guess it boils down to Stoops being aware of this as he makes his selection. It would be in his best interest to consider the efficacy of any candidate to recruit black players. If he goes with a white coach then he has to consider the effects of the negative recruiting which is unfortunate.
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Yup. It's definitely a cultural thing. You always hear the old rants about BET. Why do blacks need their own channel? Well ****. How many Spanish channels are on tv now? Lol not cable channels mind you but regular tv. But I digress. People want things that are familiar to them. And if you have 5 schools sending coaches to talk with a black star athlete from a predominantly black community? Depending on the parent/parents, the school that can send a black/minority coach may hold an edge.
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I'd rather have coaches that are actually good coaches and make whatever players we have the best they can be. John Blake may have been "relatable" but he was a horrible coach.
Minority= black.. it doesn't refer to any other race. Rooney rule is for black coaches not for asians, latinos or native americans.
We do need more diversity on staff. We're accustomed to having a few coaches that struggle in recruiting. We need to diversify the staff with guys that can coach and recruit. Or am I misunderstanding something.
I believe diversity is an old wooden ship...
The following users like this post: OU48A
I didn't say or even imply that, but whatever makes you feel better...
This is false...
No it's not
The rule was established to ensure that minority coaches, especially African Americans, were considered for high-level coaching positions. Until 1979, Fritz Pollard was the only minority head coach in NFL history (which was during the league's early years in the 1920s) and by the time the Rule was implemented, only Tom Flores, Art Shell, Dennis Green, Ray Rhodes, Tony Dungy, and Herman Edwards had ever held head coaching jobs (Only Dungy and Edwards were actively head coaching at the time of the Rule's implementation, though Shell and Green would later return to head coaching).
Looks like it's for african americans to me. And that's ok, but lets call it what is really is..a rule to help african american coaches. Not asian or latinos or native americans.
The guy your referring to was a cheat and buried us in sanctions
Doing things that are now legal today.
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OP: We need more diversity on OUr staff.
Widescreen: I'd rather have coaches that are actually good coaches and make whatever players we have the best they can be.
So, the coaching staff can't be diverse and good at the same time?
I haven't read the whole thread but from the posts I've read from OU48A this is what I'm gathering. Suppose I had two men, one African American and one White offering me similar employment opportunities. I liked both of them but related a little better and had more in common with the White man. Because of this I'm slightly more inclined to accept his offer. That makes me racist as is implied about an African American football recruit that relates better to an African American coach?
Or if I have two good friends, one White and one African American, but the White friend is my "best friend" then I must be racist?
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Yes
I think that's due to the even smaller pool of other minority coaches. I think the spirit of the rule is good but not sure it's working. I'm not in the interviews though so maybe the candidates are just whiffing...
Yeah just don't need the rule in my opinion. I'm for it's your business you hire who you want. It's also a slap in the face to African-Americans . That they have an interview even if the owner has no intention of hiring him.
I take it you didn't do well on the reading comprehension portion of the SAT.
I don't care about diversity. I want us to have the best coaches we can get regardless of skin color and who make whatever players we get as good as they can be. If that's all white, all black, or some combination of every race on earth, I'm good with it. Is that clear enough or are you still going to continue implying I don't think minority coaches can be good?
If we just look at the culture of college football. No black players on southern teams until the 1970s. No black head coaches until 1980. Only 4 black head coaches in 2013.
Meanwhile, teams themselves are generally 60% African American and many starting lineups are close to 90%. In my opinion, OU48 sees this type of thing as something akin to an unwritten affirmative action type of policy If you see it from that perspective then obviously then it would be troubling. Obviously Stoops shouldn't hire a black coach just because he is black.
Nice attitude but some of us live in the real world. The world where probably every staff in college football is integrated. I wonder why there aren't staffs that are all black or all white in FBS?I don't care about diversity. I want us to have the best coaches we can get regardless of skin color and who make whatever players we get as good as they can be. If that's all white, all black, or some combination of every race on earth, I'm good with it. Is that clear enough or are you still going to continue implying I don't think minority coaches can be good?
I'm not going to bother reading through 5 pages of what is surely enlightening discourse, but the answer to the OP's question is, yes, we need diversity on the staff. Unfortunately perhaps, but that's the way things are. Most 18 yo FB players don't see the world through the eyes of intelligent and informed adults. Or even LT posters, for that matter. To a lot of black kids and their mothers, a familiar face is a comforting thing.
There are plenty of good black coaching prospects out there. We should be looking for them.
You’re twisting things.
We should live in a nation where race in not a consideration for employment but character and qualifications are the considerations. Unless you’re a dumb **** bigot this should be too hard for reasonably well educated people to do. Once again I only want Stoops to hire the best person he can for these job openings.
You’re twisting things too and now perhaps just lying in an attempt to try and make a false point.
Because this is the second time in this thread that you are very wrong about my opinion…. I don’t care what color players are. I just want the best players playing and the best coaches coaching and winning….. If I had a problem with what color football players were I would have never played the game or become a major fan of the sport.
The fact that you take issue with what I am saying says a lot about what your think.
I don't disagree with that at all, from an idealist's perspective. But I'm being a realist. It has nothing to do with bigotry and racism, and everything to do with maximizing our success on signing day. These are kids we're talking about, 17-18 year old kids, and emotion — what "feels right" — plays a big role in their decisions. If you seriously think having some black coaches on staff wouldn't make some kids feel better about a decision to come to OU, you're living in a dream world.
Of course qualifications should be the #1 factor in every coaching hire. But that doesn't mean racial background can't, or shouldn't be a secondary factor.
But it's not what you care about that matters. It's what the kids care about. And it's absurd to think that the racial make-up of a coaching staff wouldn't have at least some effect on their decisions.
The best coaches should be able to attract enough great players who have enough intelligence to not be distracted by racial matters. Smarter players tend to win more IMO and also graduate more often.
If you had read every post I have made you know that I am not living in a dream world and would know that I have acknowledged the realities. But it’s some of those reality’s that need to change if we want to get to a better place in our society. If these realities are truly acceptable to some people then these folks need to have their views challenged if we are ever going to make the reality for all better. That’s moving forward IMHO.
You need to understand and point out that I was responding to a misrepresentation of my views on the post you quoted of me. Again we need to move to a point in our society where it doesn’t matter.
I believe that many of the more intelligent players don’t look at race and that you’re (others too) not giving them enough credit for looking at other considerations first.
I do agree it is a slap in the face. I wish there were no need for the rule.
I know you don't care what color the players and coaches are. However you take issue with those of us that think we should have several African American coaches on the staff.
I am trying to understand why you feel that way.
All I can come up with is that you perceive us as advocating some sort of Affirmative Action program among the staff. That is what I was getting at this time. It wasn't meant to be a criticism.
I fully understand why some would say we should have African American coaches on the staff…. I have no problem with that just as long as they are the best available coaches we can hire. I wouldn’t care if they were all black, yellow, red or green or even white…. But just because they might happen to be a minority doesn’t atomically make them the best coaches available to OU.
when did anyone say it was either/or ... believe it or not, there are black coaches out there that can do both ... so again for the brain dead ... its not either or .... we should be looking for someone that can do BOTH.
Understood. It will be interesting to see who Coach Stoops is able to hire.
A noble sentiment and one that I applaud. But leading the charge toward a post-racial Shangri-La isn't the responsibility of a coaching staff at a university in Norman, OK. I'd prefer that they focus on the realities of the here and now, and win recruiting battles and championships . . . before Sooner Football fades further into irrelevance.
Intelligence isn't the determinant, background is. In many cases, black kids of the low income, inner city variety have had little contact with adult white males during their short lives.
Try seeing the world through their eyes. If all other things are equal between two school choices, don't you think you'd feel drawn toward the comforting familiarity of the more racially diverse coaching staff?
Look . . . I don't think anyone is saying race is a big thing in recruiting. But it can be a little thing. And getting the little things right is what separates champions from everyone else.
Seriously? Has a single person in this thread suggested that we hire black coaches solely on the basis of race?
One last time. Young black players and their families want the same thing all young players and their families want. The best opportunity for their career whether it be on the field or off. This thread ****umes that black or other minority athletes choose based at least in part upon race. Whereas white athletes don't. Still have never heard that "hope hiring a black o-line or d-line coach doesn't hurt us with the white players."
The following users like this post: OU48A
I am not buying into the stereotyping; most people when hiring examine people on their own merits and what they think they can do for the organization.
One reason why I don’t buy into the stereotyping of people is because probably the smartest person I have ever talked to at length was a former running back from the Air Force Academy. He was voted team captain for 3 years. After football he became a Rhodes Scholar. The last I heard he had become a president of a university. The man just happened to be black. He earned it all based on his ability’s
The people that say it can make a difference are implying at the very least that some people make decision at least partly based on race.
We need smarter players than that, we can get very good smart players and Mike Stoops proves it!
Mike Stoops was just named Big 12 recruiter of the year by Rivalss howing that when you hire the people with high ability’s that reasonable people who have a brain will gravitate toward them.
That’s the way it should be.
Reasonable people who have a brain will always gravitate towards what they think will be the best situation for them. Hiring the best coaches available helps to create the best situation.
You know what Iowa State needs "diversity" If 90 % of your starters are black. It is simple hire black, head coach, o-line, d-line, linebackers, secondary, wide receivers and running back coaches. White qb or kicking (special teams coach) Boom national championships should shortly follow.
The following users like this post: OU48A
Stereotyping? That's nice. If you don't have the intellectual firepower to counter a point, just slap a derogatory label on it and move on.
And if you don't think that diversity plays a role in the hiring practices of corporations, then sir, you have never worked in one. At least not in a management capacity.
What the **** does this anecdote have to do with anything? It's not news that there are brilliant and successful African Americans in all walks of our society. Sounds like this acquaintance was a major revelation for you, that a person can be black and smart at the same time.
They do. People of every racial group make decisions almost daily — most they're not even conscious of — at least partly based on race. Any high school sociology student knows that.
This is laughable. Were you ever 17 or 18? I was. And I was smart, or so I was told. Yet despite that, I made a ****load of ill-advised decisions based on emotion, gut feeling and shortsightedness. And most of the smart kids I hung out with were guilty of the same. It's what you do when you're that age, regardless of your IQ.
I think you have an agenda in this discussion that extends well beyond the subject of OU Football, and I don't, so I'm going to bow out of this thread.
You are incorrect and in your desperation you are trying to turn all sorts of things into something else when all I want is for OU to hire the best coaches.
Very clearly and fortunately not all kids think like you perceive…
It is very true and very accurate to say that reasonable people who have a brain will always gravitate towards what they think will be the best situation for them. To think that most people wouldn’t is really very stupid. Fortunately most recruits who have abrain are not so narrow minded as to fit your idea of how things should be and for the few that are chances are very high that we don’t want dumb **** players like those on our team.
Let's hire Snoop Dogg, he brought all kinds of recruits into USC. He can coach our players on proper bong use and how to p**** a drug test.
Wendell Moseley, John Blake, Lucious Selmon, to name a few.
Plus Barry's personal background and history made him unique among white coaches in that he could relate and be at total ease with the families oif the black athletes he was recruiiting.
I'm sure the families of recruits are made well aware of sabans charm and deep feelings for their sons. If they don't know other programs advise them. They choose to go there because bama is winning and gives them the best chance to showcase their talent. Not because they have a minority position coach.
Be as shortsighted as you want. Doesn't mean Jack **** in the really real world. Making a comment like "isu getting all black coaches to win championships" is not only shortsighted but incredibly stupid in my opinion. I don't give a **** who Stoops hires. But some of y'all miss points just so you can push your own political and social views. It's funny that the coach really pulling his weight in recruiting the last few years has been the minority. Not that it means he does well due to race. It's just funny.
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Uh u ever heard of a guy named Cale gundy
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