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We'll never have that type of a movement here because people worry more about than what the government does for the most part. There won't be a long term panic like you believe. Just because it's happening over in Europe where they've had the same policies for centuries and are just now seeing consequences of those doesn't mean it'll happen here.Originally Posted by oucub23
I agree 100%... All I'm saying is sequestration is not the answer. And, anyone that thinks it will help, don't understand the facts of it.
You're right, I don't have to take it. But if my company decided to cut 20% out of my paycheck (which they have the right to d)? Well, if I'm so ridiculously qualified, I could go elsewhere... or live with it and budget accordingly.
You seem to think government employees are special in some way. You seem to think they are entitled to keep their jobs because they work for Uncle Sam. Major corporations layoff people by the thousands all the time... where is the sympathy for them?
I'm guessing you work for the government/are a contractor.
I think he's more irritated b/c this is all being dumped on the DoD. It's not drawing back on health care benefits, SS age, retirement age, unemployment benefits, food stamps, the State Department, or anything else--just the DoD.
Just don't forget that federal employees pay the same taxes you do... And, they haven't received a raise in almost 5 years. Have you been getting raises?
Like I said, we both agree that changes need to be made, but sequestration is not the answer. Period. It will actually make a lot of things much worse. But, most people just don't understand the facts about it. That's all I'm saying.
They aren't forced to work for the federal government.
I know their pension looks a lot better than mine (because mine doesn't exist).
Why is the private sector only exposed to layoffs? Why can't government employees be laid off? Or wages slashed? Please, tell me why.
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The DoD is massively bloated. If that's the first step in cutting the overall budget, so be it.
Lol... you obviously have NO IDEA what is going on with the DOD. It is FAR from bloated. The DOD has been taking hits for a long time to keep things going... and because most Americans are like you and don't know the realities of it, the politicians keep cutting.
And, yes, there have been plenty of cut in the federal government. They certainly aren't immune. When the private sector has layoffs, it's front page news and everyone knows about it. When there are cuts in the government, the budget is cut and it's up to the decision makers in each office to just make it work. Jobs are phased out, people are early retired, services are cut, and positions are lost. Sometimes complete programs get cut and everyone involved just gets to go away. It's been happening for years. Just because you don't know about it, doesn't mean it's not happening.
And, I don't know what "pension" you are talking about. Federal employees and contractors have the same retirement you do...
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The DoD has 3.2 MILLION (!!!!) employees...almost 2.5 million more than the next biggest agency! I work for one of the largest corperations in the world... we are a meager %12.5 of the DoD. They can afford cuts.
You're not going to be getting any sympathy just because it's government. Every private company looks to trim. It's a reality government employees SHOULD have accepted when they chose to work for the public. Sorry if it will affect you... but cuts must be made... and I'm rooting for the sequester.
Oh, and to show my work:
http://www.justice.gov/crt/508/report2/agencies.php
63% of all federal employees work for the DoD.. 3.2 MILLION people. Million. With an M.
edited the last graph in my first post, it was confusing
edit #2: and that was in 2001! Wonder if I can find any more current dat****
And, I'm telling you that if sequestration happens the entire country will be in a worse situation than we are now. I know you are choosing to ignore me, but it's the fact of the matter.
Yes, cuts are fine... but, sequestration never was even designed to help things. It was conceived to break our country. I don't know why you can't seem to understand that.
It's the equivalent of putting sugar in your gas tank as a means to get a new car.
So you are basically trying to say that Obama wants to destroy the country since he basically came up with it.
Tell me, short and sweet, how this will "break our country"?
I am fine with it. Cuts gotta happen, and if they can't get it together, it should hurt.
no...it was made to be so draconian that no one would want to see it happen... it was put into place to force logical cuts...
Too bad it doesn't really hurt the people that can't get it together.
Maybe if it hurts enough, people will vote these ****s out of office
They won't. People are stupid.
Because it will slow an already sluggish economy...more than likely cause another severe recession at a time when we haven't gotten back in the good from the last recession...
We cut a hundred billion a year and we will see revenue go down and unemployment and medicare payments increase...so we will end up spending a hundred billion less, still have a trillion dollar deficit along with 10%+ unemployment...
How will it slow the economy? Because federal workers will be laid off or have salaries slashed?
No, I'm saying that he came up with something that would cripple our country as a way to scare the idiots in the house and senate to actually do something. And, because most Americans don't know the facts, they think it's okay to just let it happen. Yes, you can look at the numbers and think it's just a small thing. But, the fact is it was intended to instill fear. And, the only way to create fear is to actually target things that would be a HUGE loss for our country. And, that is what sequestration does.
If you tell your child that nobody in the entire family gets to eat dinner unless he cleans his room first... If that child calls your bluff, then all you've really done is hurt your entire family. That is not fixing a problem...
But the stock market!!!
It won't break the country. The country is currently broke. Trillion dollar deficits and 16 trillion in debt is the definition of broke. It will expose the broken nature of our scheme though. I still say it won't happen--but that it will trigger another credit rating downgrade.
Even with our massive spending we have seen no GDP growth since Sept...layoff a bunch of fed workers...cut spending to the government suppliers...and we will be in deep ****....
I think most of us are sick of the same band aids being put on the same wounds and nothing different happening.
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Continuing to spend at our current pace won't fix it either.
You only say that because you don't know the facts and you think it won't affect you...
All they need to avoid a credit downgrade is a plan moving forward showing debt to GDP on the decline...that decline doesn't need to happen today or even this year..we just need a long term plan showing improvement....
but we won't see anything like this out of DC...
The following users like this post: oucub23
I agree 100%... but, your failure in the logic is that this isn't a band-aid, bandage, or even surgery... this is a new wound that now requires new attention, while we still have the old wounds to deal with.
Sequestration doesn't fix anything! It's designed to break us MORE so that we try to avoid doing it.
I agree...but an economy growing at less than 2% a year, cut or no cut, is not going to fix it either..
Honestly, I think we have a recession dead in our sights...
The tax increases sucked out 2% or more of discretionary spending...add in spending cuts and the economy that has not grown since Sept will go further downhill...
Aug GDP - 13.664 trillion
Jan GDP - 13.675
But it damn sure could affect him...new recession...lower fuel usage...less exploration needed...Chesapeake lays off...OOO cries the blues while job hunting...
Price of oil went down to $33 a barrel shortly after the crash of 2008. NG still hasn't recovered. Oil business in 2009 was a poor year for most oilies.
I've said this before, but making cuts to a deficit spending government is, by definition, a cut to GDP.
Not saying that we shouldn't cut, but we gotta be mighty careful...sequestration is not being mighty careful.
And we need to not be scared by the $16T number. We need to be scared that nobody in Washington is offering any sort of plan to strategically shore up our inefficient spending or encourage the private sector to expand and bring substantive growth to the economy...with taxes already raised these are the 2 major concerns.
Sequestration probably leads to a recession. This recession is probably not going to be so kind as the 2008 recession, seeings as we haven't even recovered from that one.
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I don't see how we're going to avoid another recession, even w/o sequestration.
I will tell you what is broke, that is the whole executive and legislative branches. They have not passed a budget bill since April 29, 2009, approx 1400 days. How many people can get by 3 years without doing their jobs at all?
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If Congress had been serious about sequester; they should have put a clause in it where they don't get paid. If they would have done that a deal would have been signed, sealed and delivered months ago.
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Oh, we probably won't. Let's be real, when the CBO starts predicting a recession, there's probably nothing that can be done about it. That doesn't mean we should make a bad recession worse by making cuts that are not ripe to be made.
Of course why make good decisions when those decisions remove explosive ammo that could be aimed at the other side of the aisle?
@MikeLucky I totally agree that sequestration is going to hurt and I really like your view points. The 800k federal employees having to take a 20% pay cut for 22 weeks is going to leave a make on the economy. I know that if 20% of my income was cut it would be a big deal. Most of those who will be taking that pay cut make less than 80k per year. Also in my neck of the woods with all of the deferred maintenance on the ships and the navy defaulting on contracts this will cost the Norfolk area 28k ship yard worker jobs, hourly workers. Not to mention all of the workers down the line because no parts are being ordered.
I do not want the sequestration to happen but am too naive to think that it won't. I will say that I will be really disappointed with the Republicans when they cave and p**** another CR to keep the economy going without gaining any entitlement cuts. I am furious of the fact that the President and the Dem's blatantly disregard the law with respect to the budget. The President is blaming the Republicans but all of the budgets he has submitted have not even passed the senate votes because they are so ridiculous. I am tired of the blame game and I want them (Senate, House, President) to quit acting like spoiled children and actually provide some leadership for this country.
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Well somehow the federal government is also paying cops, firemen, EMTs, and school teachers. I'm surprised he wasn't up there lying about your newspaper not getting delivered.
These cuts come down to really about 54$ billion. Not enough to make much of a ripple. How much is that? Basically about as much as is in Medicare and Medicade fraud every year. By their own admission the administration admits to wasting what, 125$ billion a year? More lies and bull****. More trying to drive that wedge. What's even a bigger problem is Boehner still bending over and taking it.
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At least they will be actual cuts and not the lies both parties use when they clam cuts deficit reduction.
Greta is saying sequestration isn't cuts--it's slowed future growth.
Rand Paul says the same thing.
I see graphs like this and wonder how much these apocalyptic claims are from people who stand to lose their jobs/business with the government.
It's quite obviously not just slowed future growth. lol.
I don't know who they are trying to convince, but sadly many are believing them.
so even if we make a deal within a week and all is well business as usual come March 1st, we face a government shutdown on March 27th
I'm a federal employee and things are just going to get worse for DoD employees, I know full well the possibility of furlough/sequestration as it's been discussed in detail for some time now. 20% cuts in salary for 22 weeks is what we have been informed. That is if we don't see the shutdown occur on March 27th. There will be more cuts on the way to the DoD and we have also been informed that we will likely shut down the PDM (program depot maintenance) for the 3rd/4th quarter of 2013. PDM for several aircraft is located in Oklahoma City at Tinker AFB. Shutting down for half a year will cost thousands and thousands of people jobs, not just budget cuts and that's the next issue we will be facing.
Eh, save your breath green... the geniuses on here say that the DoD and federal employees can **** off...
Sequestration is good and we should all hope for it to happen because Greta and Rand Paul say so.
The best part about it is that the people that think sequestration is a good thing, don't even really know what it is. But, don't try to tell them, because they would rather believe it's only **** people that deserve it and it'll never affect them in the least. Ignorance is bliss, apparently.
We don't expect you to want cuts in your department. It's human nature to feel that way. Just don't expect me to take you 100% serious when you have an obvious bias in the matter.
Cuts aren't fun. Trust me, I've seen it at my job a ton. People lose jobs. But don't tell me the country will plunge into anarchy when we cut a sliver of the INCREASE of the budget. I'm just not buying it.
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